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We're all winging it
#3034773 03/24/20 04:26 AM
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I know this is self-evident but on the last episode of the Keyboard Chronicles podcast (link in my sig), we interviewed Ellen Reid from Crash Test Dummies and she essentially kept saying she was an awful guest because she didn't know all the intricacies of her gear and didn't tend to think she was a particularly brilliant player.

Just shows how most of us feel a fraud, no matter the level of success. Again, it's obvious but thought it was worth repeating in current times as hopefully some of us spend more time playing from home etc.

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Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3034777 03/24/20 04:50 AM
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Yeah, but...I really /am/ a fraud.


Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3
Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H
Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9
Roland: VR-09, RD-800
Re: We're all winging it
WesG #3034778 03/24/20 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by WesG
Yeah, but...I really /am/ a fraud.

Join the club grin

Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3034779 03/24/20 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by David Holloway
Originally Posted by WesG
Yeah, but...I really /am/ a fraud.

Join the club grin

davedoerfler for president of the fraud club. hugegrin


A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3034787 03/24/20 07:58 AM
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I can de-fraud people for a small fee...

Re: We're all winging it
davedoerfler #3034788 03/24/20 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by davedoerfler
Originally Posted by David Holloway
Originally Posted by WesG
Yeah, but...I really /am/ a fraud.

Join the club grin

davedoerfler for president of the fraud club. hugegrin

Only if I can be secretary!

Re: We're all winging it
Ockeghem #3034792 03/24/20 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Ockeghem
I can de-fraud people for a small fee...

Consider yourself treasurer of the club then wink

Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3034808 03/24/20 12:38 PM
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Another fraudster here.

What I found fascinating was the level of stress she encounters while performing, so much so that she’s chosen to opt out of playing keys live.

I have a lot of respect for the honesty, vulnerability and lack of pretentiousness she displayed.

Re: We're all winging it
CowboyNQ #3034812 03/24/20 01:09 PM
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I too am a fraud. Just being a realist.

Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3034815 03/24/20 01:26 PM
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yea , along with my vent , inadequacy is with me wherever i go . for me ,at least , what evens it all out is , i really enjoy what i do , so i keep plugging away , i keep listening and learning .
stayin grateful

Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3034819 03/24/20 01:43 PM
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Hello! My name is Paul and I’m a Fraud!

Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3034820 03/24/20 01:46 PM
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I look at this way...I'm not a great player chops-wise, my solos are sloppy crap, I can't read music and some of the music you all talk about here I wouldn't have a hope in hell of playing...but I bring other things to the table, like all of us I expect. I do very good harmonies (especially the more difficult lower ones) and am a good "glue player"...meaning hopefully I help bring the song together. I'd like to think I'm a stable personality that helps keep the band flare-ups in check a bit.

Now, occasionally I start actually feeling cocky, lately that has been about my lead singing, which has improved a lot. I'll try for some run or note that is overly ambitious and get reminded--yep, got a ways to go buddy smile

Re: We're all winging it
Stokely #3034835 03/24/20 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Stokely
and am a good "glue player"...meaning hopefully I help bring the song together.

I love this term - I now have a potential strength as a player as that's what I think I bring to a lot of songs thu

Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3034849 03/24/20 04:36 PM
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Hello, where can I hear the Ellen Reid interview?

Re: We're all winging it
montunoman #3034872 03/24/20 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by montunoman
Hello, where can I hear the Ellen Reid interview?
https://keyboardchronicles.com

Or anyplace you can get podcasts, just search for Keyboard Chronicles. There's also a Podcast Forum here.

(In fact, the site is in David's sig! I should have known. facepalm )

Quote
Impostor syndrome (also known as impostor phenomenon, impostorism, fraud syndrome or the impostor experience) is a psychological pattern in which one doubts one's accomplishments and has a persistent internalized fear of being exposed as a "fraud".[1] Despite external evidence of their competence, those experiencing this phenomenon remain convinced that they are frauds, and do not deserve all they have achieved. Individuals with impostorism incorrectly attribute their success to luck, or interpret it as a result of deceiving others into thinking they are more intelligent than they perceive themselves to be.[2] While early research focused on the prevalence among high-achieving women, impostor syndrome has been recognized to affect both men and women equally.[1][3]
Wikipedia

https://time.com/5312483/how-to-deal-with-impostor-syndrome/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/real-women/201809/the-reality-imposter-syndrome

https://www.fastcompany.com/40421352/the-five-types-of-impostor-syndrome-and-how-to-beat-them

And a jillion more when one searches. Not that I have ever looked into this. Not me, no. Nope. Not at all.


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
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Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3034877 03/24/20 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by David Holloway
Originally Posted by Stokely
and am a good "glue player"...meaning hopefully I help bring the song together.

I love this term - I now have a potential strength as a player as that's what I think I bring to a lot of songs thu
You sound like brothers from other mothers. I’ve got a name for our band: The Glue Factory.


"That's another thing that bugs me, the naysayers who say the music sucked. Come on, you ever been to a gig? The only time it's perfect is when it's on hard drive."
--Lefsetz on Woodstock
Re: We're all winging it
Polychrest #3034879 03/24/20 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Polychrest
Originally Posted by David Holloway
Originally Posted by Stokely
and am a good "glue player"...meaning hopefully I help bring the song together.

I love this term - I now have a potential strength as a player as that's what I think I bring to a lot of songs thu
You sound like brothers from other mothers. I’ve got a name for our band: The Glue Factory.
A band for keyboard players horsing around. wink


Samuel B. Lupowitz
Composer. Arranger. Musician. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.
Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3034894 03/24/20 08:52 PM
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"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it." ~ H. L. Mencken

I'm not a fraud. I am a composer. I do accept that in some quarters, the two are thought to be far too similar.


First SETI contact hailed as aliens beam out Voyager response!:
"SEND MORE CHUCK BERRY!"
Re: We're all winging it
samuelblupowitz #3034975 03/25/20 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by samuelblupowitz
Originally Posted by Polychrest
Originally Posted by David Holloway
Originally Posted by Stokely
and am a good "glue player"...meaning hopefully I help bring the song together.

I love this term - I now have a potential strength as a player as that's what I think I bring to a lot of songs thu
You sound like brothers from other mothers. I’ve got a name for our band: The Glue Factory.
A band for keyboard players horsing around. wink

I can feel something coming together here grin

Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3035060 03/25/20 09:47 PM
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I think I'm a pretty good glue player – a jam leader said I was a good ensemble player – but compared to most of you, I really am a fraud as a keys player. After all, I use the transpose button all the time. As a sax player I am not a fraud but like Dirty Harry said, a man's got to know his limitations. I know what I can't do on sax that really good players can do. On keys, I mostly can't do any of the things that good players can do.

Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3035101 03/26/20 02:16 AM
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Fortunately, you can fraud most of the people, most of the time. Apologies to Abe.


The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin
Re: We're all winging it
El Lobo #3035111 03/26/20 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by El Lobo
I really am a fraud as a keys player.
Hey Lobo, as a fellow fraudster, I believe it's more than just committing the fraud, it's how you commit the fraud that can distinguish you from the other fraudsters. Furthermore, I've found that if there is a motive, an opportunity, and if you can rationalize it, this can lead to fraudulent playing. Finally, if you commit the fraud with some panache, you can often conceal it without detection, even from those that may have some skill at detecting fraud.


soundcloud.com/stream
Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3035114 03/26/20 04:23 AM
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I have been seeing a counselor for this very reason for two years and she’s helped me immensely. The funny thing is that I never thought a non-musician could help me but she has really unlocked some things in me. I feel better about myself both as a musician and overall than I ever have.


"I would, but I don't want to."
Re: We're all winging it
Mitch Towne #3035119 03/26/20 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Mitch Towne
I have been seeing a counselor for this very reason for two years and she’s helped me immensely. The funny thing is that I never thought a non-musician could help me but she has really unlocked some things in me. I feel better about myself both as a musician and overall than I ever have.

That's a great point Mitch - this issue certainly covers a range of issues in life so the strategies to deal with them are probably similar as well.

Re: We're all winging it
waygetter #3035120 03/26/20 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by waygetter
if you commit the fraud with some panache, you can often conceal it without detection, even from those that may have some skill at detecting fraud.
I think that's my true skill as a player. As the saying goes, "The secret of success is sincerity. Once you can fake that you’ve got it made.”

Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3035177 03/26/20 03:32 PM
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I've found that the best players are the ones that consider themselves a fraud. It's because they know that there is so much more out that that can be learned, and there are so many others that the fraudster considers to be better.

My name is Ronnie (Mr. Nightime) Wahl, and I'm a fraud.


"In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome.
So God helped him and created woman.

Now everybody's got the blues."

Willie Dixon




Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3035187 03/26/20 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by David Holloway
Originally Posted by Stokely
and am a good "glue player"...meaning hopefully I help bring the song together.

I love this term - I now have a potential strength as a player as that's what I think I bring to a lot of songs thu

The guitarist in my country band has said this about me... "You're the glue that holds it all together." Just call me "Elmer's Keys". smile


Kurzweil PC3, Yamaha MOX8, Alesis Ion, Kawai K3M
Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3035291 03/27/20 01:33 AM
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I'm a fraud, too. Pink Fraud Cramer. This is almost cathartic.


Please excuse my dangling "r"
Re: We're all winging it
David Holloway #3035303 03/27/20 03:28 AM
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David,

I listened to the podcast. I enjoyed it a lot. Keep up the good work.

aL


Gear: NS3 HP76, Mojo 61, NS2 73, NS 88 classic, C. Bechstein baby grand.
Re: We're all winging it
Music*aL #3035310 03/27/20 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Music*aL
David,

I listened to the podcast. I enjoyed it a lot. Keep up the good work.

aL

Thanks so much aL! thu

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