KeyLab 88 MKII

[Steve Nathan]

Had 3 sessions Tuesday at a studio where space is at a premium. They asked me to use their KeyLab 88 MKII. I haven't searched the posts on this board, but jeeeze did I miss my Casio!

What a spongy action! Fortunately, I played real Hammond and Wurly on 3 of 4 tracks and a more synth based sound on the fourth (so the action wasn't critical). I know it's all personal preference on these debates, but I'll be making them move that thing out of the way next time.

 

P.S. Mike Martin alone, is reason enough to play a Casio!

[drawback]

I had a Keylab 88 MkII and not for very long. Arturia makes great stuff, but they have to get a different supplier for their hammer actions.

[Stokely]

Is it better or worse than the MkI? For a while Arturia was bundling the first version with the version 6 of the synths, which is a pretty good deal if it's a half-decent controller.

 

That said, I'm trying to stay away from "half-decent" these days...and I don't really need any more soft-synths!

[hardware]

Disposable Controllers & Hardware is popular with Kids.

My youngest son loves the blinking LEDs too.

[EricBarker]

I love my MkI... people seem to love it or hate it. I've played better, but I've played much much worse, and nothing with the control surfaces the KeyLab offers. One thing to note is that that keybed has a very long and substantial break-in period. It gets much better with use.

[drawback]

I didn"t wait for my MkII to break in, although before it I had an SL88 Studio for the better part of a year with the same Fatar TP/100LR keybed, and it never improved. I cut my losses on both of them. Again, the Arturia build is second to none, at least from what I"ve seen, and I"ll agree some like the action, some don"t.

[Bill Spencer]

I bought a PX s1000 just to have a 'piano' that would work on batteries with internal speakers for low volume or no AC gigs.

 

WOW. The action is awesome, and what's unique (in my experience) is how well it plays at lower velocities. So warm, actually feels like a real piano. The stereo 'widener' or enhancer sounds great, too. The other sounds are passable, but with a great piano, who cares? : )

 

Kurzweil was the first 'board I felt I could actually play "piano" on, but it's better suited to band situations.

[TomKittel]

I didn"t wait for my MkII to break in, although before it I had an SL88 Studio for the better part of a year with the same Fatar TP/100LR keybed, and it never improved. I cut my losses on both of them. Again, the Arturia build is second to none, at least from what I"ve seen, and I"ll agree some like the action, some don"t.

 

I have a Studiologic SL73/TP100LR which I mainly use with Pianoteq and Korg Module American D. I really like it after I calibrated the keybed to my playing with the unique key balance feature. This should not be confused with the key velocity curves adjustment which the SL73 also offers of course. After setting the key balance the keybed feels much less spongy. I have no idea how this works because the physical resistance of the key springs doesn"t change. But it works. Must be a psychoacoustical or psychohaptical issue or someting.

 

Not sure if other brands use the key balance feature of the TP100LR in their products.

[drawback]

The key balance feature in the SL software was a forgiving factor, alright. Arturia had software settings for just the usual light, medium, heavy IIRC. The thing about the TP100 action I couldn"t overcome was the keys felt unassertive and bouncy. Glad the Casio is working for some folks - isn"t there a thread about that action, though?

 

It"s all by trial, in the end. I played a variety of new boards when I settled back into hardware. I like the P515/CP88 actions although a tad heavy (my mind could change), and the Kawai action on the Nord Grand but it"s way too pricey. The best action for me is on the P125 but the instrument is too limited. Right now I"m in love with the RH3 on my GrandStage as it seems to have been optimized.

 

[RandyFF]

I didn"t wait for my MkII to break in, although before it I had an SL88 Studio for the better part of a year with the same Fatar TP/100LR keybed, and it never improved. I cut my losses on both of them. Again, the Arturia build is second to none, at least from what I"ve seen, and I"ll agree some like the action, some don"t.

 

I have a Studiologic SL73/TP100LR which I mainly use with Pianoteq and Korg Module American D. I really like it after I calibrated the keybed to my playing with the unique key balance feature. This should not be confused with the key velocity curves adjustment which the SL73 also offers of course. After setting the key balance the keybed feels much less spongy. I have no idea how this works because the physical resistance of the key springs doesn"t change. But it works. Must be a psychoacoustical or psychohaptical issue or someting.

 

Not sure if other brands use the key balance feature of the TP100LR in their products.

Please say more about the key-balance feature. This is a software adjustment? Doesn't make sense unless they're deciding where the keys are triggered based on that adjustment. Sounds like something every keyboard should have if its as simple as adjusting the software. Though perhaps it's only possible because this keybed has 3 contacts per key.

[drawback]

I didn"t wait for my MkII to break in, although before it I had an SL88 Studio for the better part of a year with the same Fatar TP/100LR keybed, and it never improved. I cut my losses on both of them. Again, the Arturia build is second to none, at least from what I"ve seen, and I"ll agree some like the action, some don"t.

 

I have a Studiologic SL73/TP100LR which I mainly use with Pianoteq and Korg Module American D. I really like it after I calibrated the keybed to my playing with the unique key balance feature. This should not be confused with the key velocity curves adjustment which the SL73 also offers of course. After setting the key balance the keybed feels much less spongy. I have no idea how this works because the physical resistance of the key springs doesn"t change. But it works. Must be a psychoacoustical or psychohaptical issue or someting.

 

Not sure if other brands use the key balance feature of the TP100LR in their products.

Please say more about the key-balance feature. This is a software adjustment? Doesn't make sense unless they're deciding where the keys are triggered based on that adjustment. Sounds like something every keyboard should have if its as simple as adjusting the software. Though perhaps it's only possible because this keybed has 3 contacts per key.

 

This is found in the SL Editor software. It's very good for customizing the balance and dynamics and helps with the perception but of course it can't do anything to address the mechanics/physics.

 

[Iconoclast]

I had a MkII 88 for a couple days. I will start by saying I REALLY WANTED TO LIKE IT. It ticks all the other boxes for me as far as controls, size, surface. I love the arturia software.

 

I was really on the fence about the keybed. It is really heavy and deep. Spongy is a word I've heard people use. Effortless is NOT a word I'd associate with it.

 

Try to play the Roundabout organ solo on it...like running with ankle weights.

 

On the other hand, I think it worked really well with Keyscape Pianos as it seemed to unlock some secret expressiveness that you don't get with other lighter keybeds. Seriously, after a couple of days there was some stuff that I really preferred about that heavy action. Playing every separate velocity layer in this board is actually noticeable and usable. Definitely a learning curve and some tradeoffs.

 

The percussion pads seemed a little stiff to me, and not very expressive. Other reviews have reported the same thing.

 

It didn't support the Korg ds-1h sustain pedal, which I have several of. I think the basic sustain jack only supports on/off type pedals, not continuous type. I also think this is NO WHERE IN THE DOCUMENTATION. Found it online in the arturia message board. OK..no biggee...sustain pedals are cheap and almost no one notices half damper anyway, but still, if you're trying to be premium, all the flagship keys have half damper.

 

I lucked out in that it had two sticky keys down in the low end so I sent it back because it was defective. I did not replace it with another because I'm still on the fence about the action. I was hoping it would loosen up as I played it but I only gave it a week. It sounds like some users have said this will happen. I think if it did, it could really be a killer product.

 

My rig is becoming more and more computer based and I was hoping this would be a great solution. As simple as it sounds, the built in computer shelf and wide clear music stand with a hole for the power cord are absolutely brilliant for setup/schlep/stage cleanliness. It's 2-3 less stands. The number of pedal inputs supports the way I play (why don't other companies have more pedal inputs on their controllers!!!)

 

So the summary is, if they had a more versatile keybed (or this one actually does break in and get easier), the perc-pads were more expressive (maybe they just need to break in too?), and if the sustain jack supported a half-damper pedal, it would be a slam dunk. I had some other issues with keylab integration but since I use mainstage 99% of the time, it was really not a problem.

[Steve Nathan]

Spongy is a word I've heard people use.

 

Spongy is definitely the word I'd use (and did I think). Just the feel of it before I'd even loaded audio was distressing.

These days, as I'm working in more and more small studios without real pianos ( ), the feel of the controller is much more important. I'm quite satisfied with my PXS3000 for sessions. And, being able to carry it under one old man arm is a huge plus.

[EricBarker]

It didn't support the Korg ds-1h sustain pedal, which I have several of. I think the basic sustain jack only supports on/off type pedals, not continuous type. I also think this is NO WHERE IN THE DOCUMENTATION. Found it online in the arturia message board. OK..no biggee...sustain pedals are cheap and almost no one notices half damper anyway, but still, if you're trying to be premium, all the flagship keys have half damper.

This is a really weird design decision because all of the other pedal inputs allow for continuous pedals. You actually can reconfigure the keyboard to output CC64 on another jack, and just ignore the sustain input altogether. So it's completely capable of using half-damper pedals, just not out of the box.

[David Emm]

There are many fine synthesizers and at least a few decent keyboard mechanisms, but they rarely appear in the same instrument. Even a few winning flagship designs have come with keys I'd expect on a 1965 Sears Silvertone not-a-synth. I have decided, over time, to address it by playing on controllers I like to the theme from "The University of STFU." I never had a lousy one get better just because I called it a POS.

[Markyboard]

It didn't support the Korg ds-1h sustain pedal, which I have several of. I think the basic sustain jack only supports on/off type pedals, not continuous type. I also think this is NO WHERE IN THE DOCUMENTATION. Found it online in the arturia message board. OK..no biggee...sustain pedals are cheap and almost no one notices half damper anyway, but still, if you're trying to be premium, all the flagship keys have half damper.

This is a really weird design decision because all of the other pedal inputs allow for continuous pedals. You actually can reconfigure the keyboard to output CC64 on another jack, and just ignore the sustain input altogether. So it's completely capable of using half-damper pedals, just not out of the box.

 

I don"t think it"s weird at all. Sustain pedal jacks use mono TS plugs and they"re strictly on/off (NO/ closed or NC/ open). This type of pedal won"t work in a CC jack input and I don"t think most people want a controller that doesn"t accommodate this type of pedal. For a CC jack you need a TRS or stereo connector. Half damper sustain type pedals are really just CC pedals despite 'sustain' in their name. And yes you can configure the controller to treat them as on/off sustain pedals. But again most people want a controller that handles both types of pedals.

 

[Iconoclast]

It didn't support the Korg ds-1h sustain pedal, which I have several of. I think the basic sustain jack only supports on/off type pedals, not continuous type. I also think this is NO WHERE IN THE DOCUMENTATION. Found it online in the arturia message board. OK..no biggee...sustain pedals are cheap and almost no one notices half damper anyway, but still, if you're trying to be premium, all the flagship keys have half damper.

This is a really weird design decision because all of the other pedal inputs allow for continuous pedals. You actually can reconfigure the keyboard to output CC64 on another jack, and just ignore the sustain input altogether. So it's completely capable of using half-damper pedals, just not out of the box.

OK, that's makes perfect sense. I didn't get quite deep enough in it to to do some of the board programming. Thanks! If I make the dive into the MKII 88 again, I'll make sure to play the crap out of it for a month and see if I can get it to actually break in.

 

[phalperin]

Hi- I Just joined looking at my using a keylab mk2 and confirming I can use the Roland rpu 3 pedal pedal unit with it. Iconoclast answer the question as I can use the 3 aux pedal inputs for "continuous" sustain, soft, and sustenato. Thanks!

 

Speaking to the playability of the MK2.... I play a fairly light action Steinway B so the heaviness of the MK2 action jumped out. BUT it has softened over 4 months (or I am adjusting/accommodating). I echo the comments about the expressiveness and dynamic range of the action. I really discovered this recently when I bought Pianoteq (wow). When playing the Steinway D the heavy action is actually close to the real thing. 

[Baldwin Funster]

Then you would really hate the essential series. The keys on my keylab 49 essential is worse then the m-audio oxygen pro. But....it's the only board I have that I can do that jimmy smith sputter thing. I can't get it on my novation or nektar controllers or various roland boards. The arturia essential keys feel light and plasticy but it is very responsive and fast with a fairly high trigger point. Great for B3x, vb3m, ect.

[Iconoclast]

So Fatar/StudioLogic has come out with a TP110 that's supposed to address some of the specific problems with the TP100.  I think it's the same as the Numa Piano?  Anyone who can compare the 110 to the 100?

[drawback]

14 minutes ago, Iconoclast said:

So Fatar/StudioLogic has come out with a TP110 that's supposed to address some of the specific problems with the TP100.  I think it's the same as the Numa Piano?  Anyone who can compare the 110 to the 100?

There's a good bit of discussion on the last page of this Numa X thread. 

[Adam Burgess]

On 3/14/2020 at 10:34 PM, Iconoclast said:

I had a MkII 88 for a couple days. I will start by saying I REALLY WANTED TO LIKE IT. It ticks all the other boxes for me as far as controls, size, surface. I love the arturia software.

 

I was really on the fence about the keybed. It is really heavy and deep. Spongy is a word I've heard people use. Effortless is NOT a word I'd associate with it.

 

Try to play the Roundabout organ solo on it...like running with ankle weights.

 

On the other hand, I think it worked really well with Keyscape Pianos as it seemed to unlock some secret expressiveness that you don't get with other lighter keybeds. Seriously, after a couple of days there was some stuff that I really preferred about that heavy action. Playing every separate velocity layer in this board is actually noticeable and usable. Definitely a learning curve and some tradeoffs.

 

The percussion pads seemed a little stiff to me, and not very expressive. Other reviews have reported the same thing.

 

It didn't support the Korg ds-1h sustain pedal, which I have several of. I think the basic sustain jack only supports on/off type pedals, not continuous type. I also think this is NO WHERE IN THE DOCUMENTATION. Found it online in the arturia message board. OK..no biggee...sustain pedals are cheap and almost no one notices half damper anyway, but still, if you're trying to be premium, all the flagship keys have half damper.

 

I lucked out in that it had two sticky keys down in the low end so I sent it back because it was defective. I did not replace it with another because I'm still on the fence about the action. I was hoping it would loosen up as I played it but I only gave it a week. It sounds like some users have said this will happen. I think if it did, it could really be a killer product.

 

My rig is becoming more and more computer based and I was hoping this would be a great solution. As simple as it sounds, the built in computer shelf and wide clear music stand with a hole for the power cord are absolutely brilliant for setup/schlep/stage cleanliness. It's 2-3 less stands. The number of pedal inputs supports the way I play (why don't other companies have more pedal inputs on their controllers!!!)

 

So the summary is, if they had a more versatile keybed (or this one actually does break in and get easier), the perc-pads were more expressive (maybe they just need to break in too?), and if the sustain jack supported a half-damper pedal, it would be a slam dunk. I had some other issues with keylab integration but since I use mainstage 99% of the time, it was really not a problem.

This is almost exactly my feeling after having it for a few months. I really, really, wanted to love it.

It's almost perfect, apart from the actual keyboard, doh, which I'm still not adjusted to - and, no,  it hasn't 'bedded' in.
It's playable, but it is hard work - and if you really dig in, it seems to bottom out quite quickly to me, not be 'deep'?

I had 3x Korg DS1H pedals all ready to go for the 88 and the 61, and, yes no good at all. Mailed them and they said they recommend the Yamaha FC3A. And, yes half-damping works fine with the Yammy.

Just as it's always handy to have some tech detail now and again:
 

Léo (Arturia Support) 

Feb 9, 2022, 9:51 GMT+1 

Hello Adam
Thank you for your interest on our products and for reaching us.

The Keylab MKII is capable to handle damper sustain pedal with a TRS jack without any problem along with appropriate software which are also supporting these kind of functions such as the Piano V2. I would recommend you if possible the Yamaha FC3A which works perfectly fine and which we're using here too.

Some pedals may also in some cases use a different wiring which may prevent them to operate properly with our controllers such as the Korg DS-1H which won't work unfortunately : 
Here are for comparison the wiring of the recommended pedal and of the Korg one in case this may help you : 
Yamaha FC3A : 

FC3 Fully disengaged (not stepped on):
Tip-to-sleeve resistance ~10k
Ring-to-tip-resistance = ~0k 
Ring-to-sleeve-resistance = ~10k 

FC3 Fully engaged (stepped on) :
Tip-to-sleeve resistance ~10k 
Ring-to-tip-resistance = ~10k
Ring-to-sleeve-resistance = ~0k 

KORG DS-1H: 
DS-1H Fully disengaged (not stepped on): 

Tip-to-sleeve resistance ~30k 
Ring-to-tip-or-sleeve resistance = infinate (no connection) 
Ring = GND 

KORG DS-1H

Fully engaged (stepped on):
Tip-to-sleeve resistance ~3k
Ring-to-tip-or-sleeve resistance = infinate (no connection) 
Ring = GND 

 

So unfortunately, some pedals due to their wiring type may not work properly and we won't be able to do much more in order to solve this problem.
Make sure also to plug it on the Sustain pedal input and to define it to operate in continous mode for the values to be properly received and handled.

 

[JFP]

On 5/29/2022 at 10:20 PM, Iconoclast said:

So Fatar/StudioLogic has come out with a TP110 that's supposed to address some of the specific problems with the TP100.  I think it's the same as the Numa Piano?  Anyone who can compare the 110 to the 100?

having had TP100 boards and now the Numa X with TP110 I cannot wait to see Arturia releasing a MKIII with TP110. I'd dump my Numa X for it since I use it only as a controller anyway and miss the versatility of a real integrated controller like the Arturia . They need to do three things for me to make it perfect:

- one is a better but still lightweight keybed , like the TP110 or Kawai RHIII,

- second is an integrated audio interface (preferably USBC)  . Just plug in a USB-C cable and you're done.

- Third is a joystick controller at the left or just above the keys on the left of the keybed like on the Korg Kronos / Krome / Nautilus boards. Ik hate pitch/ mod wheels somewhere places on top of the board far away. Not a natural positioning and also musically a joystick rocks for many synth and other sounds. Professional Rolands have both; that's even better. 

[Iconoclast]

Make it a 7x key version and I'm there.

[Vladwhoseachforanswers]

On 5/30/2022 at 10:34 AM, Adam Burgess said:

This is almost exactly my feeling after having it for a few months. I really, really, wanted to love it.

It's almost perfect, apart from the actual keyboard, doh, which I'm still not adjusted to - and, no,  it hasn't 'bedded' in.
It's playable, but it is hard work - and if you really dig in, it seems to bottom out quite quickly to me, not be 'deep'?

I had 3x Korg DS1H pedals all ready to go for the 88 and the 61, and, yes no good at all. Mailed them and they said they recommend the Yamaha FC3A. And, yes half-damping works fine with the Yammy.

Just as it's always handy to have some tech detail now and again:
 

Léo (Arturia Support) 

Feb 9, 2022, 9:51 GMT+1 

Hello Adam
Thank you for your interest on our products and for reaching us.

The Keylab MKII is capable to handle damper sustain pedal with a TRS jack without any problem along with appropriate software which are also supporting these kind of functions such as the Piano V2. I would recommend you if possible the Yamaha FC3A which works perfectly fine and which we're using here too.

Some pedals may also in some cases use a different wiring which may prevent them to operate properly with our controllers such as the Korg DS-1H which won't work unfortunately : 
Here are for comparison the wiring of the recommended pedal and of the Korg one in case this may help you : 
Yamaha FC3A : 

FC3 Fully disengaged (not stepped on):
Tip-to-sleeve resistance ~10k
Ring-to-tip-resistance = ~0k 
Ring-to-sleeve-resistance = ~10k 

FC3 Fully engaged (stepped on) :
Tip-to-sleeve resistance ~10k 
Ring-to-tip-resistance = ~10k
Ring-to-sleeve-resistance = ~0k 

KORG DS-1H: 
DS-1H Fully disengaged (not stepped on): 

Tip-to-sleeve resistance ~30k 
Ring-to-tip-or-sleeve resistance = infinate (no connection) 
Ring = GND 

KORG DS-1H

Fully engaged (stepped on):
Tip-to-sleeve resistance ~3k
Ring-to-tip-or-sleeve resistance = infinate (no connection) 
Ring = GND 

 

So unfortunately, some pedals due to their wiring type may not work properly and we won't be able to do much more in order to solve this problem.
Make sure also to plug it on the Sustain pedal input and to define it to operate in continous mode for the values to be properly received and handled.

 

 

Hi, hope you doing well. Now I'm in search for answers. And yeah, got the same support answer.. BUT

I'm using Yamaha FC3A haha and here it is - troubles with incorrect velocity.