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Let's assume there are no more concerts...


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Aye, we know all that, guys and gals, but the intent of my post was to brainstorm about ways to make money from music if public gigs are not an option.

 

Grey

 

I think your point was lost on almost every person posting in this thread, Grey. A shame, because it really is a worthwhile discussion.

 

Me, I'm going to be starting a Twitch channel about me playing checkers with my dog. ;)

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[video:youtube]

 

I've been researching for our local paper, my doctor and my old company for two weeks. That came out yesterday. It is the most comprehensive single source of information as of 3/11/20 that I have seen. Debunks many myths.

 

I would beg everyone to watch the whole thing without interuption and take notes.

 

You will be surprised at what very common things we hear are just not the case. Straight honest talk is the best medicine. Osterholm delivers.

RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, 

SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2

Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4

MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals

Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. 

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Well here in Australia a relief package has been announced that will assist small businesses that have employees and apprentices. Also for those on pensions and unemployment benefits. Missing from this anything for founders of the "gig" economy, self employed musos. So it is going to be tough unless further measures are introduced to help the self employed.

A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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I think your point was lost on almost every person posting in this thread, Grey. A shame, because it really is a worthwhile discussion.

 

I began my original post with, "I think I know which way this will trend..." so I'm not surprised. I did make at least a token effort to steer it back on track.

 

Isaac Asimov wrote of a future in which people eventually became so isolated from one another that they could no longer stand to be in the physical presence of another human being. He did not address the problem of live music performance, but I imagine that it would be handled much the same way his characters interacted with each other--a sort of telepresence technology--but note that people were uncomfortable even with that. Disembodied audio-only music reproduction would still be an option, I suppose, though the economics would still have to be worked out, regardless of performance format.

 

Parenthetically, I and my wife spent a delightful evening with Isaac and his wife, Janet. Absolutely charming man, and smart as a whip. I wish there were more people like him. For that matter, he might even be enticed to put his mind to the problem I posed in my original post. If anyone could come up with a practical solution, he could.

 

Oh, well...back to statistics and fretting...

 

Grey

I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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Aye, we know all that, guys and gals, but the intent of my post was to brainstorm about ways to make money from music if public gigs are not an option.

 

Grey

 

I think your point was lost on almost every person posting in this thread, Grey. A shame, because it really is a worthwhile discussion.

 

In response to COV-19 I have apparently relocated...to Bizarro World.

:laugh:

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"Imagine no more concerts". Should be a line in a John Lennon song.

 

Ok, no more gigs. On the bright side, it's the perfect excuse to get out of boring family dinners or awkward business meetings.

 

But I actually have the perfect solution. SCUBA gear. Including flippers. Because you would look silly walking around in dive gear without flippers.

FunMachine.

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I and my wife spent a delightful evening with Isaac and his wife, Janet. Absolutely charming man, and smart as a whip. I wish there were more people like him.

Grey, you are the master of the long con.

 

You deftly flick flint to firesteel and oversee three pages of Lord of the Flies before you casually (parenthetically?) drop your personal encounter with Asimov.

 

Well played sir. We may style ourselves as pawns, rooks or even queens, but it is you who knows in which cupboard the chessboard is kept.

 

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Here in Sweden, all events with more than 500 people have been cancelled. This means most of the bigger productions, including bands, theaters, shows and so on. I've had all my gigs in march cancelled as well as a backline rental. The biggest tours of the summer have been cancelled and a big production I'm supposed to do in November seems to be a no-go. Nobody dares take the risk of starting something that can't be finished. It's a HUGE dent in my economy and I'm going to have to look for other kinds of work...
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New Revealtions this morning 3/12/20

 

LISTEN TO EPISODE OF 3/12 WASHINGTON POST

 

Sorry, but there are new details about contagion in there. About 3/4 of the way through are latest tests from US labs with virus.

RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, 

SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2

Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4

MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals

Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. 

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I think your point was lost on almost every person posting in this thread, Grey. A shame, because it really is a worthwhile discussion.

 

Me, I'm going to be starting a Twitch channel about me playing checkers with my dog. ;)

 

I don't think the point was lost. Most of us are just not there yet. This is kind of like the three stages of grief, and we're all still on stage 1.

 

Or is it 5? :laugh: Anyway some of us are dealing with the initial loss of our gigs, and want to about it - which is one of the things I really like about this forum. It's a community, and we share stuff.

 

How we deal with that loss and find solutions that work for us? That will come in time. And I imagine we'll all share that too.

 

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I don't have to imagine the world without gigs simply because, here in Athens, gigs are shuting down. Imagination is now reality. It also happens everywhere in Europe

I'm not talking only about our scheduled gigs in normal 150-200 people clubs.. I'm talking festivals, big venues etc

 

Thankfully I have a day job. But my brothers and sisters relying on gigs and teaching only (conservatories have shut down too) are having a really hard time.

For the record, my next gig is cancelled with little hope to re schedule it again...

 

PS I was about to go to Paris to see 3 concerts. 2 of them are cancelled. Big ones

 

 

Be grateful for what you've got - a Nord, a laptop and two hands
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Aw man, I was really looking forward to seeing and hearing the Chick Corea/Brian Blade/Christian McBride trio next week.

 

I'll just have to order the second trilogy album and spend my evening enjoying their music in the comfort of my own home.

 

Which brings me on to the topic.

I guess it is not really a good source of income for a gigging musician, but perhaps you could focus on longterm plans? Perhaps an album, or another major project that you would normally not find the time for. A concentrated effort might pay out later.

 

And diving into digital presentation is most likely a valuable effort in any case I suppose.

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So...how do musicians--particularly those who put food on the table by playing music in front of live audiences--make money? What are the alternatives?

 

Grey

 

I have a perspective on this because I teach business. It may not be the correct or best perspective, but this one is mine (Full Metal Jacket quote).

 

Money is made when something of value is offered and sold. So if playing live is taken away as an option (for any number of reasons, including a pandemic), how else does a musician make money?

 

By understanding the value that an offering may have to a paying consumer.

 

Recorded music, streamed music, web-enabled audience participatory experiences, streamed content, asynchronous delivery of instruction, customized composition (I'll write a song with your significant other's name in it for money), music created to accompany or enhance another event / product, working with other media creators, etc.

 

There are lots of ways to monetize music which others perceive as valuable.

 

The challenge isn't identifying other opportunities, it seems to me. The challenge will be for musicians who are only comfortable delivering value in a small number of channels (playing live) to stop rueing over what has been lost (which is legitimate and not to be minimized) and to adopt a mindset of self-efficacy and opportunity (no one else is responsible for the choices I make, and every problem is an opportunity in disguise).

 

Some will be able to make the leap and pioneer new ways to earn an income. Many will not.

 

This too is normal life - every change forced on us creates winners and losers. Winners will thrive, the losers will need to find other sources of income that don't bring as much satisfaction and joy.

 

Anyway, my 0.02. I think that was part of your point.

..
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Aw man, I was really looking forward to seeing and hearing the Chick Corea/Brian Blade/Christian McBride trio next week.

 

I'll just have to order the second trilogy album and spend my evening enjoying their music in the comfort of my own home.

 

Which brings me on to the topic.

I guess it is not really a good source of income for a gigging musician, but perhaps you could focus on longterm plans? Perhaps an album, or another major project that you would normally not find the time for. A concentrated effort might pay out later.

 

And diving into digital presentation is most likely a valuable effort in any case I suppose.

 

 

These days I prefer DVD's of concerts and clubs and streaming shows. Far more comfortable, no hassles getting to and from a venue, and concerts are ridiculously priced these days. Plus having the DVD I can watch again and as a musician study what's going on. For artist it opens them up to a global market and avoid the nightmare that touring can be dealing with airlines, venues, and gear issues. Plus if like we did at the church were recorded everything into ProTools so we had audio for making albums and DVDs from and for the church podcasts of the Rev's message. This could create new markets for artists even after the pandemic is over.

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Part of the attraction of a live concert is the shared experience, even if you're sharing it with strangers. If you're watching a band via YouTube, for instance, you don't have the crowd experience. Sitting alone in a room with a band that's playing on a stage somewhere else, but with no audience, is going to be like a return to MTV-style promotional videos. People won't pay attention. They'll use it as background music while they make and eat supper, or talk to friends, or surf the web. Once it's degraded to background status, it loses value, and once it loses perceived value, they won't pay for it...or not much.

 

The trick will be to make it more involving. It needs to be more than just an MTV video.

 

Grey

I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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I guess it is not really a good source of income for a gigging musician, but perhaps you could focus on longterm plans? Perhaps an album, or another major project that you would normally not find the time for. A concentrated effort might pay out later.

Good luck. Everybody can now make "an album", you are lucky just to recoup your costs. Nobody but the superstars are making real money from recordings.

 

And diving into digital presentation is most likely a valuable effort in any case I suppose.

A lot of this is wishful thinking imo. Sure we can stream performances, maybe set up some kind of platform to try and monetize that (I suspect a few exist right now), but my question is â can an actual full-time musician make a living doing this? In terms of financial stability, you part-timers have so much less to worry about in that regard â I kind of envy you all. (I can't wait for the "it's your fault you chose to be a musician" posts that I'll probably see!).

 

As far as that streaming idea, I think Darryl's House is (or was) doing that with some shows. Last I saw you could donate to get access. So, a "door gig." You might make enough for a few cups of Starbucks. And I assume the club takes a cut too.

 

I'm old enough to remember the wedding market turning to DJs. And the New Year's Eve debacle of 2000 â that killed NYE gigs which for a lot of musicians was the last chance to make some cake before the Jan - April drought. This latest event is just more nails in the coffin. We seems to be entering a recession and when that happens, live music at the local level is hit hard â a restaurant or small club facing hard times is gonna cut music before other stuff. When the economy came back after 2008 I didn't see those gigs start to pay any more than they've been paying for the last 40 years! When folks get used to not seeing live music, there's much less incentive for anybody to hire live musicians even when economic conditions improve.

 

We may be seeing a major shift in lifestyles for a lot of the world's population. This virus is not a "one-off", it will probably be like the flu and come back every year in a mutated form. There may eventually be a vaccine that will, like the flu vaccine, be partially effective â but when "coronavirus season" hits every winter, I would expect the same downturn for all businesses that rely on anything close to a "group" of people. Welcome to a new reality!

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My concert for tomorrow night in the town of New Haven has been canceled. Yale University requested that the venue not have the show. Scheduled for Northampton MA next week. There are five colleges in the area so not looking good. All my students also canceled lessons this week.
C3/122, M102A, Vox V301H, Farfisa Compact, Gibson G101, GEM P, RMI 300A, Piano Bass, Pianet , Prophet 5 rev. 2, Pro-One, Matrix 12, OB8, Korg MS20, Jupiter 6, Juno 60, PX-5S, Nord Stage 3 Compact
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Seen a few known musicians posting that with all going on they have time giving for Skype lessons. I'm looking at it as reason to stay home and doing more listening and practice so trying look for the positive in all the negative.
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My concert for tomorrow night in the town of New Haven has been canceled. Yale University requested that the venue not have the show. Scheduled for Northampton MA next week. There are five colleges in the area so not looking good. All my students also canceled lessons this week.

My daughter goes to Mount Hoyoke, one of the five colleges. It's closing for the semester and she's coming home. The other four are doing the same. I believe most students are supposed to be moved out by tomorrow, or early next week. Good luck with your show there. All my gigs coming up in the next few weeks are cancelled, including my new teaching job in Connecticut.

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We may be seeing a major shift in lifestyles for a lot of the world's population. This virus is not a "one-off", it will probably be like the flu and come back every year in a mutated form. There may eventually be a vaccine that will, like the flu vaccine, be partially effective â but when "coronavirus season" hits every winter, I would expect the same downturn for all businesses that rely on anything close to a "group" of people. Welcome to a new reality!

 

I'm slightly more optimistic on that,and hope to hell I'm right. It's absolutely not a one-off, but I'm hopeful that like flu vaccines, it becomes a useful yearly immunisation option that reduced risk significantly. Like the flu vax they will have to adjust it each year of course :thu:

 

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For many, in the short run, the path to profit will not be making more or similar money. The path will be reducing expenses.

 

In Dec and Jan, I spent a bunch of money on room treatment and a friggin powerful desktop computer. I doubt I would have done that in March.

 

We may see far fewer giddy discussions of the latest and greatest keyboards to buy. More discussions on skill development or how to make old gear sound great.

 

Some of that is potentially good. But some of it is sad and worrisome. Our GAS supports manufacturers" innovation and motivation to continue to make gear for pros rather than toys for short-lived bedroom production fantasies. I hope manufacturers can weather this storm.

Barry

 

Home: Steinway L, Montage 8

 

Gigs: Yamaha CP88, Crumar Mojo 61, A&H SQ5 mixer, ME1 IEM, MiPro 909 IEMs

 

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We may be seeing a major shift in lifestyles for a lot of the world's population. This virus is not a "one-off", it will probably be like the flu and come back every year in a mutated form. There may eventually be a vaccine that will, like the flu vaccine, be partially effective â but when "coronavirus season" hits every winter, I would expect the same downturn for all businesses that rely on anything close to a "group" of people. Welcome to a new reality!

 

I'm slightly more optimistic on that,and hope to hell I'm right. It's absolutely not a one-off, but I'm hopeful that like flu vaccines, it becomes a useful yearly immunisation option that reduced risk significantly. Like the flu vax they will have to adjust it each year of course :thu:

I just heard Dr Sanjay Gupta on the CNN "town hall" say that exposure to viruses can cause us to develop some natural immunities that makes repeated exposures less dangerous. A small ray of light.

 

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This thread really birngs home the hardship. I feel deeply for you guys. As if making a living in music were not already hard enough, now this.

 

Anyone working in public faces such concerns, to be honest. Right now you may want to be sure you are ready when the wave really hits. How much food is in the house? Are you ready to be confined at home possibly for three weeks?

 

I had to really study up on what works for long term in the house. Milk and butter can be frozen. Pasta is cheap. Lard is a magic ingredient. Now I know the real difference between baking powder, soda and yeast.

 

The more I learn, the more I suggest opening windows.

 

God speed to you all. We have a very hard year ahead. Spring of 2021 will be incredible. We just need to be there.

RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, 

SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2

Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4

MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals

Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. 

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Parenthetically, I and my wife spent a delightful evening with Isaac and his wife, Janet. Absolutely charming man, and smart as a whip. I wish there were more people like him. For that matter, he might even be enticed to put his mind to the problem I posed in my original post. If anyone could come up with a practical solution, he could.

Yes, all our livelihoods are quite literally at stake, but Grey just won this thread.

 

I'm fawning.

 

Loved, loved, loved Asimov.

"The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk)

The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio

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I can"t help with earning money but if anyone is wanting to tackle DIY repair work during this down time and needs an assist let me know. I spent about 2 hours on Skype earlier this week helping someone in Paris fix their Memorymoog; just waiting on a transistor part now.

 

Always happy to help forum members if I can. Except please, no ARP/ Solina String Ensembles; I hear those things sound like shit.

:rimshot::keynana:

 

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We got booked May 2 at a venue that holds 1500. Government is limiting events to 1000. I guess we just have to turn away fans after 999 (sarcasm....hope to get 300)

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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We got booked May 2 at a venue that holds 1500. Government is limiting events to 1000. I guess we just have to turn away fans after 999 (sarcasm....hope to get 300)

(Unofficial) word here in Germany is to expect ZERO shows to go on until mid-April at least, even shows well under 1,000 attendees.

 

I would not expect those shows to happen.

"The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk)

The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio

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Here in Italy everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, is shut down. Even funerals, just to give an idea.

 

The lockdown is supposed to end on Apr. 3rd, but all will depend how the situation evolves. Other EU countries are supposedly 10-15 days behind us in the spreading of contagion, I hope they will make the best use of that time.

 

As for musicians, little to say. Zero gigs. Zero lessons. Zero income. No one I heard is making any serious money from online classes. The ones lucky enough to have a production activity are taking the chance to woodshed and work hard to finish projects and recordings.

For all the others, it's just a matter of waiting out the storm.

 

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