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Anyone else using PanEQ?
#3029447 02/17/20 07:28 PM
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I do not use it very often, but Brainworx bx_PanEQ was the perfect tool on a mastering job I did yesterday.

I was mastering an album that had the piano panned about halfway between left and center. It was was too "tubby" but when I pulled out the tubby-ness with a standard L-R or M-S EQ I was losing some cool low end of the male singer. PanEQ to the rescue. I was able to focus my cut just on the piano without a major changed to the voice.

I only use it about once a month or so, but I am always super glad I have it when I need it.
https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/bx_paneq.html
[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]

Last edited by Ronan C Murphy; 02/17/20 07:28 PM.

Ronan Chris Murphy - Producer-Engineer
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Re: Anyone else using PanEQ?
Ronan C Murphy #3029510 02/18/20 12:35 AM
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I have it - got it from Dirk with a bunch of the other bx plugs - but I don’t believe I’ve ever used it. Probably because I don’t really understand how to use it. idk

School a brother...

dB

Re: Anyone else using PanEQ?
Ronan C Murphy #3029518 02/18/20 01:22 AM
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I have and use Waves F6 Dynamic EQ, but it looks like this is different as it has Pan controls. Does that let you select where in the stereo field the plugin operates? Very clever if so...

Re: Anyone else using PanEQ?
Nathanael_I #3029545 02/18/20 03:22 AM
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Yes, it lets you EQ frequencies in specific pan position. A great example would be if you had a drum overhead where the high hat was about half way between center and full left, you could tweak the EQ on the high hat with out changing the other parts of the drum set that much.


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Re: Anyone else using PanEQ?
Ronan C Murphy #3029612 02/18/20 02:27 PM
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Interesting. How does the screen shot with the tornado in the middle relate to that? How do you select the pan position that you want to fiddle with? And if you can adjust EQ, you can probably adjust level, too, so you can turn down the #@&%! ride cymbal?

Years ago, Roland had a program that used some technique of separating instruments in a mix and presenting them in their panned position on a screen. You could then adjust level, maybe EQ (I don't remember) drag them around, and put it all back together again as a stereo mix. I had a copy, it sort of worked - probably worked better with a traditional rock band than with an old time string band that I was using when fooling around with it. My application was to take a mono recording from a 78 and pull the guitar player out of the center so the listener (learner) could hear what he was doing. I think they abandoned that program before it really ever hit the street. I can't even remember the name now, but I might still have a copy somewhere.

I had a little better success "isolating" the guitar using Spectral Layers, but that program's user interface was so hard for me to understand that I set it aside. Spectrogram views seem to be a hot item these days but I just can't relate.

Re: Anyone else using PanEQ?
Mike Rivers #3030352 02/24/20 06:55 PM
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You can just drag the target around the tornado.


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Re: Anyone else using PanEQ?
Ronan C Murphy #3030777 02/27/20 11:15 PM
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So it seems to me that it's only valuable if you don't have access to the multitrack recording, otherwise you'd just apply EQ to the individual track, correct? Or do you feel like it has some application on an individual track of a mix?


Dan

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Re: Anyone else using PanEQ?
Ronan C Murphy #3030789 02/28/20 12:08 AM
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Pretty sure you're correct, brother Dan...but Ronan did mention he was using it on a mastering job. Sounds like a really useful tool for that.

I've only been aware of mid/side tools (compression and EQ) to achieve similar results on a finished mix.

dB

Re: Anyone else using PanEQ?
Ronan C Murphy #3030815 02/28/20 02:45 AM
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So this is going to be a very novice question from me, since I have limited experience in this realm, but is there typically not the ability when going through the mastering process to go back and have modifications made to the mix, or is it just "here's the mixdown, do what you can"? Being an armature, we've either done mastering ourselves with the option of going back to the mixdown, or spent so much time in the mixdown (because we weren't paying anybody by the hour) that there wasn't much left to do by the time mastering came around. Well......a PROFESSIONAL mastering engineer may beg to differ, lol.

But one area where I was wondering if this theoretically could have impact on a single track is so,etching like a stereo keyboard part to make it sit differently in an overall mix with respect to the stereo field......maybe more ballsy in the center and lighter in the more extreme L/R field, like chorus effects and such.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: Anyone else using PanEQ?
J. Dan #3030888 02/28/20 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dead
So this is going to be a very novice question from me, since I have limited experience in this realm, but is there typically not the ability when going through the mastering process to go back and have modifications made to the mix, or is it just "here's the mixdown, do what you can"? Being an armature, we've either done mastering ourselves with the option of going back to the mixdown, or spent so much time in the mixdown (because we weren't paying anybody by the hour) that there wasn't much left to do by the time mastering came around. Well......a PROFESSIONAL mastering engineer may beg to differ, lol.

But one area where I was wondering if this theoretically could have impact on a single track is so,etching like a stereo keyboard part to make it sit differently in an overall mix with respect to the stereo field......maybe more ballsy in the center and lighter in the more extreme L/R field, like chorus effects and such.



Could be budget, or time constraints. Not everyone works in home studios like you (or me). Some folks record in dedicated "for hire" recording studios. I would if I had the budget. I'd hire in talent too.

And the budget may have been mostly spent already so the cost of a remix is not an option.
Egos and what people "hear" could a factor, could be a complex issue like "Let's get this done and behind us so we can part ways with this "producer" or other drama funs.

If it is a song for a commercial it may be reaching the deadline for submission.

I don't want to speak for the OP but it may simply be that Ronan hears something he feels will really improve the final result and he has a tool that can help achieve that end.

I don't know and could not possibly guess but these (and more) are all possibilities. Cheers,, Kuru


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Anyone else using PanEQ?
J. Dan #3030951 02/28/20 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Dead
is there typically not the ability when going through the mastering process to go back and have modifications made to the mix, or is it just "here's the mixdown, do what you can"?


If there's a problem with the mix, then the best place to fix it is in the mix, not during "mastering." But (and the reason I put it in quotes) is that the word means different things to different people. Used to be that mastering was the process of cutting a lacquer master, the first step in manufacturing a vinyl phonograph record. But people got to asking the mastering engineer to do a few little tweaks before dropping the needle, like adjusting the balance between the channels, or maybe even adding reverb. And sometimes they did some limiting without being asked, because otherwise the cut would be very quiet or the needle would jump out of the groove. Today, "mastering" seems to mean "We think this is the best we can do, but see if you can improve it and any way, and make it louder."

There was a period where people were sending different versions of the mix to the mastering shop, usually with one element like the lead vocal or the bass a couple of dB higher or lower than the "best we can do" version. And some people send stems to the mastering shop an let them create a new mix, balancing drums, bass, rhythm section, lead, and background vocals on maybe half a dozen faders.

Quote
we've either done mastering ourselves with the option of going back to the mixdown, or spent so much time in the mixdown (because we weren't paying anybody by the hour) that there wasn't much left to do by the time mastering came around.


That's old school. Nothing wrong with it as long as it's working for you. These days, though, one of the things that people like about letting someone else master is just a different set of ears that aren't dead tired of the songs yet.

Quote
But one area where I was wondering if this theoretically could have impact on a single track is so,etching like a stereo keyboard part to make it sit differently in an overall mix with respect to the stereo field......maybe more ballsy in the center and lighter in the more extreme L/R field, like chorus effects and such.


That seems like something that PanEQ can do. It's just another tool to mess with and see if it gets you something you like better than what you had.

Re: Anyone else using PanEQ?
J. Dan #3030953 02/28/20 11:52 PM
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Most of the revisions I get are actually mix revisions, where the client wants things to sit differently in the mix and they only really 'hear' it after it's mastered. This is pretty uncommon with the pro mixers though very common with the semi-pro and amateur mixers. We're all learning as we go until we croak.....a recall to run a new mix at the mastering stage isn't that time consuming or expensive.


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Re: Anyone else using PanEQ?
Ronan C Murphy #3031090 03/01/20 04:44 AM
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It looks like Slate Digital has just put out a new EQ that also offers the M/S EQ feature. I subscribe to their plugin bundle, so I'll have to download it and check it out.

Re: Anyone else using PanEQ?
Nathanael_I #3031107 03/01/20 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Nathanael_I
It looks like Slate Digital has just put out a new EQ that also offers the M/S EQ feature.


I was curious about that one, so I looked at the video. It appears that it works kind of upside down of the Brainworx PanEQ that Ronan described. In the PanEQ, it appears that you identify what you want to EQ by its pan position rather than its frequency range, and what you adjust is the frequency response applied to whatever is in that position.

With the Slate M-S EQ, you identify the sound you want to work on by its frequency range, and you can bring it in toward the center or spread it out over a wider space in the stereo field. Both are potentially useful, but for different things - at least as I see it.

Re: Anyone else using PanEQ?
Ronan C Murphy #3031194 03/02/20 05:59 AM
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It is amazing the control we can have using digital tools. If you can imagine it, it can be done! What a great time to produce music.


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