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Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
#3031186 03/02/20 04:28 AM
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You know, like backwards tape and preverb. I realize they're 60s sounds, but they both sound pretty cool. Maybe they're just too dated for people to use, or maybe people have forgotten about them...in which case if you revive them, the world will think you came up with something new smile

Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Anderton #3031188 03/02/20 05:02 AM
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When I was doing remixes on Metapop I had one where I cut out all the vocals with bad lyrics.
It didn't leave much!!!

Was already lavished with reverb.

To fill in where it seemed there should be singing, I reversed the original vocal track and dropped chunks of it in where it seemed to fit. Now that I listen to it, I reversed drums too and blended them with the other drums.
Sounds like I stretched some out too, made them deep and creepy sounding.

https://metapop.com/opossum-apocalypse/tracks/you-remix-opossum-appocalypse/83393

I liked it, changed the entire song. Still didn't win...


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Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Anderton #3031202 03/02/20 07:26 AM
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Yes but with my limited gear, it's a bit cumbersome. Usually it's something I ultimately want available as a sample in my keyboard to trigger live. So sample the forward sound into my Kronos, reverse it, play the reversed version into my computer, put reverb on it, sample it back into the Kronos, reverse it again......except it won't preload if I save it like that, so play it BACK into the computer and sample it back into the Kronos and save it like that. It better be worth it.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Anderton #3031222 03/02/20 03:02 PM
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I sometimes reverse a hit which has a long tail, in order to make a timbrally matched front end swell / rise. It's a feature of the epic trailer, action soundtrack style. Musically, it plays a role similar to the "shhhhh" in the Beatles' Come Together.

Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Anderton #3031407 03/03/20 12:24 PM
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I think the problem is that it used to be "easy" to do simply by flipping the tape over. Now, to get the backwards tape effect you have to know where to find it and I'm not even sure if it's in all DAWs or audio editors. I don't even think I've seen a function for preverb, but I guess it's probably out there.

Is there a function to fake tape print-through as well?


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Joe Muscara #3031420 03/03/20 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
I think the problem is that it used to be "easy" to do simply by flipping the tape over. Now, to get the backwards tape effect you have to know where to find it and I'm not even sure if it's in all DAWs or audio editors. I don't even think I've seen a function for preverb, but I guess it's probably out there.

Is there a function to fake tape print-through as well?


Exactly! See my description above of what it takes just do do a little reverse reverb sample on my Kronos. Pretty cumbersome.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
J. Dead #3031425 03/03/20 02:35 PM
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One of the few things I miss about the old 4-track Cassette recorders!

I love using Reverse Delay into a deep Flanger; great Psychedelic sound!

For longer backwards tracking, I can record long phrases into my RC-50 Looper, then play them backwards with the push of a foot switch. Makes it easy to audition a couple of takes, choose the best one (or scrap them all and start over), then record the best version as the 'keeper' track.

Another reason to follow David Torn's advice, and "Always be Looping". If you catch something cool by accident, you can save it, tweak it, re-work it somehow, otherwise it just vanishes into the ether.


"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

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Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Joe Muscara #3031435 03/03/20 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
I think the problem is that it used to be "easy" to do simply by flipping the tape over. Now, to get the backwards tape effect you have to know where to find it and I'm not even sure if it's in all DAWs or audio editors. I don't even think I've seen a function for preverb, but I guess it's probably out there.

Is there a function to fake tape print-through as well?


I think there is a free DAW that does Reverse easily. No cost or risk to find out.

Tracktion 7 is FREE - full version.
https://www.tracktion.com/products/t7-daw
It's been a while since I used it but I think the Reverse function is included.

I am one of those "outliers" that used Tracktion (since version 3) and transitioned to Waveform when it changed. Waiting for my upgrade to 11 to be released right now.

It is very easy to reverse a audio. Snipping a smaller clip out of a full track clip is simple and with the clip selected, the menu at the bottom center of the screen will offer a "Reverse" button. As little as 2 clicks if you reverse an entire track clip and a few more clicks if you create a shorter clip from that track clip first.

FWIW, I like to copy and paste clips that I am going to modify to a new track. That is also very simple and fast.

If my memory serves, it doesn't need to be in all DAWs or even any other DAWs because it's free. Cheers, Kuru


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Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Anderton #3031453 03/03/20 05:54 PM
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It's not too hard to do preverb with DAWs...check out the article How to Create the Preverb Effect with DAWs.

Here's an excerpt from the article with how to reverse audio in various DAWs:

* Ableton Live: in the clip overview sample box, click Rev
* Acoustica Mixcraft: right-click the clip > Reverse
* Apple Logic: double-click the clip, then choose Functions > Reverse
* Avid Pro Tools: select clip > AudioSuite > Other > Reverse
* Cakewalk by BandLab: select clip > Process > Apply Effect > Reverse
* Magix Samplitude: right-click the clip > Effects (Offline) > Sample Manipulation > Reverse
* MOTU Digital Performer: select clip > Audio > Apply Plug-In > Reverse > Select > Apply
* Presonus Studio One Pro: right-click the clip > Audio > Reverse Audio
* Propellerheads Reason: right-click the clip > Reverse Clips
* Sony Acid Pro: select clip > type U
* Steinberg Cubase: select clip > Audio > Process > Reverse

Last edited by Anderton; 03/03/20 05:54 PM.
Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Anderton #3031459 03/03/20 06:24 PM
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Thanks Craig, I offered what I could but you've added a comprehensive list.

I'll learn a new DAW if I have no other option!!! Cheers, Kuru


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Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Anderton #3031475 03/03/20 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
It's not too hard to do preverb with DAWs...check out the article How to Create the Preverb Effect with DAWs.

Here's an excerpt from the article with how to reverse audio in various DAWs:

* Ableton Live: in the clip overview sample box, click Rev
* Acoustica Mixcraft: right-click the clip > Reverse
* Apple Logic: double-click the clip, then choose Functions > Reverse
* Avid Pro Tools: select clip > AudioSuite > Other > Reverse
* Cakewalk by BandLab: select clip > Process > Apply Effect > Reverse
* Magix Samplitude: right-click the clip > Effects (Offline) > Sample Manipulation > Reverse
* MOTU Digital Performer: select clip > Audio > Apply Plug-In > Reverse > Select > Apply
* Presonus Studio One Pro: right-click the clip > Audio > Reverse Audio
* Propellerheads Reason: right-click the clip > Reverse Clips
* Sony Acid Pro: select clip > type U
* Steinberg Cubase: select clip > Audio > Process > Reverse

Quote
Back when doing reverse audio was a challenge (flipping tape reels over, recording, flipping them back), it was a common a technique. Now that reverse audio is easy to do, it’s uncommon…go figure
You got me, Craig! I should have known you would know. roll

Admittedly, I would think a reverb plug in could probably do this without having to go through this, though not in real-time obviously. It would be a fun setting to have, and convenient to be able to select and go.

Now about that print-through effect… wink


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Joe Muscara #3031477 03/03/20 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Muscara

Now about that print-through effect… wink


Print through effects should be fairly simple.

Copy and paste the track you want to have "print through" or export a submix of the tracks if it is more than one.

Paste/import your track(s) into a new track and then you can offset it, drown it in reverb, reverse it or whatever you want and mix it back into the song at a lower level.

Should work in any DAW, have fun! Cheers, Kuru


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Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Anderton #3031491 03/03/20 09:11 PM
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Guitar Rig has a nice virtual rack unit called Psychedelay that I've used a lot. And my Boss DD-7 delay pedal has a decent Reverse delay setting.

Just flipping a sample clip around is a pretty old trick in every DAW I've ever seen. Turn crashes or other attack-heavy sounds with a significant release into swells with a nice pop at the end.

All the sample-mangling software - like the old Camel Audio stuff (do I ever miss Camel audio!) did that sort of thing with all sorts of variations.

And lots of synths have a feature for flipping an envelope or scanning a wavetable "backwards."

Kind of a staple for electronic types...

nat

Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Anderton #3031509 03/03/20 11:13 PM
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Octatrack - it has 3 LFOs per Track, which can be assigned to a Track and Machine (the one assigned to the Track) parameters... or to each other. One of the Flex Machine parameters is playback direction.

Chase Bliss MOOD - has backwards playback capability

Empress Zoia - can do backwards delay for sure. Reverse reverb? Forgot. Still have a lot to learn about this Empress.

Last edited by GovernorSilver; 03/03/20 11:14 PM.
Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Anderton #3032143 03/07/20 06:21 PM
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Recorded this many moons ago on a Teczon cassette 4-track. Shite quality, in other words

The first part is heavily influenced by The Cars' "A Dream Away". By heavily influenced I mean stolen

Backwards guitar begins about 36 seconds in. Gets a bit boring after a while

For your listening pleasure: Missing You

Last edited by BMD; 03/10/20 09:42 AM.
Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Anderton #3032189 03/08/20 04:19 AM
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Well the backwards guitar fits, but I think the song has some potential beyond that. I'd start it at 1:33, because in the Age of Spotify, songs have to have short intros. The verses move the song along, nicely, and then you go into that cool instrumental. But I think the beginning of the instrumental could be the foundation for a "collage" kind of chorus with words, whispers, that kind of thing...and THAT's where you bring in the backwards guitars to create a dreamy psychedelic texture with the vocals.

It's hard to explain exactly what I'm hearing, but since I like doing covers of your material, I just might give this one a go and "produce" it more. You've already done 3/4 of the work smile

Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Anderton #3032203 03/08/20 07:13 AM
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Well if you do, I'd be very interested (as always) to hear the result smile






Last edited by BMD; 03/11/20 02:53 PM.
Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Joe Muscara #3032453 03/10/20 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe Muscara


Is there a function to fake tape print-through as well?


Digital delay and low pass filtering.

Dan

Re: Does Anyone Use Backwards Effects?
Anderton #3033625 03/16/20 05:45 PM
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One of the bands I’m in recorded our own version of Pink Floyd’s “speak to me” for live use.

There’s a backwards piano chord in there, I just flipped it around on Audacity.


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