Meyer Sound UPM1s, anyone?

[Bill Spencer]

I"m curious as to how a pair of these would be for a small footprint high-quality stereo amplification system... Would love some input from anyone who has actually tried them.

 

https://meyersound.com/download/upm-1p-datasheet/?wpdmdl=2529&masterkey=58b9e771254a0

 

⦠I"ve been researching what options are out there to improve upon my pair of QSC K8s.

 

Seems the next step up would be RCF TT08s.

 

QSC K8.2: $650 ea

RCF TT08: $1500 ea

 

That"s a big gap. Anything in between?

 

Obviously not the Meyer UPM1 at $2,800 ea,, But if they sound great the tiny size would make them attractive. There seem to be a fair number of used ones available at around 2K ea.

 

 

 

[Mark Schmieder]

These remain some of our more popular and neutral loudspeaker models for smaller footprint applications as well as mixed systems such as what stage theatre often requires, but in general they're some of our more versatile models as are the UPJ's (several in that series) and new ULTRA-X series. In terms of the used ones, that seems like a good price overall; they take abuse well.

 

I'm not quite certain I know what application you're looking for though. Not recording studio monitoring or home entertainment stereo systems, right? You just mean a pair when you say stereo, vs. a line array or a cluster of boxes for various stage points or back-line or FOH monitoring?

[Ulf]

Our small local theater has Meyer UPM1's, and they sound great. Not at all hyped (so some musicians will probably find them boring), but neutral and very nice for small ensembles, strings and speech.

 

[cphollis]

 

⦠I"ve been researching what options are out there to improve upon my pair of QSC K8s.

 

Seems the next step up would be RCF TT08s.

 

QSC K8.2: $650 ea

RCF TT08: $1500 ea

 

That"s a big gap. Anything in between?

 

 

Quick answer? No.

 

I haven't found an 8" unit that slots between these price points. That doesn't mean they don't exist, it only means I've never encountered one despite a great deal of searching.

 

I'm curious as to your situation, though. A pair of K8.2s are very impressive, the TT08-as even more so. The aforementioned FA-28s were a lot more expensive than the RCFs. And then there are these which look interesting, but at the same price point as the RCFs.

 

[Jazz+]

Too expensive. I've used one, not much bass. I prefer my EV Sxa-360 pair. I prefer my cheap Fender Rumble 40 bass amp (18 lbs) plus my Fender Champ tube amp (15 lbs, great low end) for portability for organ and EP.

[Bill Spencer]

Thanks, Dave--- I was really hoping that 2 5s (in the UPM1s) could equal the bass of the 8 in the K8.2, but the math shows that the 8" cone has more area than two 5" cones, so it's not surprising that it would struggle to produce enough low end. Meyer specs are 75Hz bottom, QSC is 59Hz, and -10db @55Hz. A significant difference. I also think Meyers generally sound too aggressive, as you say.

 

Hard to justify spending that much without gaining a size or weight reduction, but I'm going to start sniffing around for a pair of TTs or equivalent...

[Bill Spencer]

I'm not quite certain I know what application you're looking for though.

 

A pair to schlep to club and restaurant gigs. Will be used for stereo keyboard amplification on gigs from singles to 6 or 8 piece band (sometimes also vocals on small gigs), no FOH support for instruments. Needs to provide smooth, present full range tone for acoustic piano, and enough bottom for convincing left hand bass in small to medium sized rooms. The 2 K8.2s do this very well. The UPM1s are smaller.

 

[Nathanael_I]

 

I've never played through a pair of the Fulcrum Acoustics FA28ac though. The site says they are discontinued.

 

 

This is not surprising. When I bought my FA22ac's, I inquired first about the FA28ac's since they were smaller, lighter, and had even better pattern control than the FA22ac's. The dealer (who was also a regional PA provider) told me that he only used the FA28s for amplifying voice. He thought I would be happier with the FA22ac's for any music application. The price was not significantly different. I took his recommendation and have been thrilled. As my drummer says, "It is the best loud (amplified) sound that he's ever heard."

[Nathanael_I]

Indeed, the __ac speakers are all discontinued, but it doesn't look serious. They have new versions that are the same model number, just lacking the "ac" at the end. So they have an FA28 instead of an FA28ac. I bet Powersoft changed the amp slightly or something and they made a new version. They look the same, and the performance charts do to. The PDF's for the new models still slip and say "ac" in some places. I suspect the "new" models are very, very close to the "old" models. But as you say, I enjoy mine every time I turn them on, which I don't expect to be any diminished for them shuffling their naming convention around. But if anyone wants some, I think they can be had.

 

The other option would be to look at the Presonus speakers that Dave Guinness designed (same guy behind Fulcrum Acoustic). They are probably as good as you can get for the price, and they are less than half Fulcrum prices (different drivers, of course, but solid design +DSP).

[Mark Schmieder]

Hi Bill,

 

Horses for courses, of course. For instance, there are big differences between near-field, mid-field, and far-field designs -- especially regarding the low-end.

 

I would have to ask around at the office to see if those are recommended for such duties, as it's not really the market we aim for overall and thus you may be better served by Dave's recommendations when it comes to keyboard monitoring vs. FOH and related applications.

 

My recollection is that the UPJ's (especially the slim line models) and possibly our newest ULTRA-X series might be more applicable overall, but individual instrument monitoring is not really a market we target DIRECTLY even though many models may be designed to be very versatile in application.

 

Some of our stage wedge monitors had a lot of design input from Metallica and Green Day and might be good mono solutions for some. We have a lot of models by now, some of which have different horn coverage angle options and/or are rotatable like some of those E/V models.

 

I have done some gigs with one or two UPJ's (or UPjuniors) on loan and they can work quite well for example as acoustic guitar singer-songwriter amplification for the club. It's just never occurred to me to really look at keyboard stereo monitoring options that are for the player vs., for the venue.

 

Our website was redesigned late last year; I should check whether we now have an "application chart" as these are becoming popular with many vendors to help guide people towards the most appropriate choices, now that the pro audio and live sound markets have gotten so specialized and are covering so much ground compared to 10+ years ago.

[Mark Schmieder]

RCF has a wide range of models too, and they replace their line-up just often enough that I find it confusing to keep track, so am thankful we have people on this forum who have easier access to that brand and who keep us all up-to-date.

 

In our early days, they were one of our two main OEM's until we brought everything in-house. They get high respect.

[cphollis]

Nathanael -- the "new" Fulcrum Acoustic FA models (FA12, etc.) are unpowered, so not appealing on that basis alone. Glad I still have my FA12acs!

 

Bill, given your use case, it's hard to suggest a "meaningfully better" pair of 8" self-powered PA units than the K8.2s without jumping all the way to the RCF TT08-a. You *might* want to consider 10" and 12" designs, but now we're talking a lot more schlep.

 

Besides, almost no one in the audience will be able to discern the difference between a pair of K8.2s and a pair of TT08-as. Their ears will hear "good stuff" and that will be enough.

[Reezekeys]

I hope I'm not stepping on toes here, but my opinion is this: you're the one spending the cash, shlepping, setting up, and ultimately (and hopefully) enjoying the experience of playing music. Personally, I would never in a million years base my buying decision on whether or not any audience "could tell the difference." 99.999% can't tell and could give two shits! That's a given! Pardon my French, and somewhat ornery attitude, but I'm with Dave â when it comes to the gear you bring to gigs, make it all about you!

[Bill Spencer]

LOL I was just about to write exactly the same thing⦠Of course the audience will be able to hear the difference because I will be happier with my sound and therefore play better, he says optimistically.

 

 

[Reezekeys]

I like to be optimistic too â but my cynicism usually overrides that! I know that for me, it's usually a struggle to play to the best of my abilities when I'm not happy with my sound. The amp/speakers is, of course, a big part of that but not the only element â hence my decision years ago to go with a laptop and multi-gigabyte piano VI. Back then I connected to two Mackie SRM450s, and for many years shlepped two of these 51-lb. guys to every gig I did including $50 jazz gigs in Manhattan. Switching to two K8s was like a gift from heaven â being smaller, almost half the weight of the 450s, and sounding much better! What's funny is that now, ten years later, those K8s are feeling heavy enough for me to start wishing for even lighter guys â but they'd need to sound at least as good as the Ks or I couldn't do it.

[Nathanael_I]

Nathanael -- the "new" Fulcrum Acoustic FA models (FA12, etc.) are unpowered, so not appealing on that basis alone. Glad I still have my FA12acs!

 

Ah, yes, you are right! I bet that is market feedback from their pro sound companies - they voted with their wallets. The pro sound companies do not prefer built in amps. They vastly prefer amp racks. That way they always ship one more amp to a gig than they need - instant spare if there is a problem and you don't lose a whole cabinet. Pro sound companies often stock drivers, so if there is a problem, they fix it back at the shop and never have to ship an entire cabinet.

 

I on, the other hand, wanted the active speaker, with a built in amp so I DIDN'T need an amp rack. I chose subs with built in amps as well, and DSP onboard. When designers know what they are doing, they can make truly exceptional sound happen. Even very loud! I knew that I wouldn't be pushing them into the limiter EVER, and was pretty unconcerned.

 

 

[cphollis]

Hey, I'm totally on board with spending $$$ just to indulge one's own ears and perhaps no one else's. Indeed, whatever makes you happy!

 

However, after a long and expensive period of said indulgences, I came to realize that there were many other factors that influenced how I sounded, how the band sounded, and how the audience reacted. So I decided to focus on those.

 

I stopped chasing potentially "better" keyboards, and learned to use what I had more effectively. Instead of hunting down better personal amplification, I instead invested in a decent FOH PA and a good sound person to run it. Getting the band to ditch stage monitors and use IEMs to hear themselves was important. A drum shield for our caveman drummer. Microphones for guitar amps. Recording rehearsals and gigs helped drive improvement across the board. A modest, battery-powered light show turned out well.

 

The result is that I'm now a lot happier with how I sound, how the band sounds and how people react. Your mileage may vary

 

 

[Nathanael_I]

I stopped chasing potentially "better" keyboards, and learned to use what I had more effectively. Instead of hunting down better personal amplification, I instead invested in a decent FOH PA and a good sound person to run it. Getting the band to ditch stage monitors and use IEMs to hear themselves was important. A drum shield for our caveman drummer. Microphones for guitar amps. Recording rehearsals and gigs helped drive improvement across the board. A modest, battery-powered light show turned out well.

 

The result is that I'm now a lot happier with how I sound, how the band sounds and how people react. Your mileage may vary

 

This is all gold. (I didn't buy the PA for personal amplification, it is FOH... I use IEMs). Huge believer in ISO cabs for guitar amps if modeling is not an option. I have a Jackson Ampworks ISO cab: Celestion Gold inside, with two microphone stalks wired to XLR terminations on the outside of the cab. Real tube tone, and yes, you can turn up your amp, but everyone else gets 30db of reduction! One can talk over a raging amp easily, and it sounds fantastic. Cleans up a stage like magic. If the only thing making noise on stage is the drums, the mixer person can give a GREAT sound to the room/audience.

 

And totally agreed that recording is the secret to progress and band craft in general.

[Reezekeys]

I see. So, what I need to be happy with my sound is to buy a PA for the band, hire a sound person, and get IEMs for everybody? Who knew! If only I was in a position to do this, but I can't. I'm a musician!

[cphollis]

I see. So, what I need to be happy with my sound is to buy a PA for the band, hire a sound person, and get IEMs for everybody? Who knew! If only I was in a position to do this, but I can't. I'm a musician!

 

Yes, it sounds counter-intuitive, but it's not. You could be the most brilliant musician with the most amazing sound, but if you're playing in a sucky band with a lame PA and no sound person, I've found it isn't fun, the crowd doesn't engage and I don't play especially well.

 

When the band is rocking, I'm rocking.

 

BTW, people got their own IEMs. I do have my limits

 

[Reezekeys]

If I'm playing with a sucky band, the greatest PA in the world ain't gonna help. It might even be more depressing!

 

When the band is rocking, I'm rocking.

No argument there, however I've found it's usually the musicianship of the players that determine how "rocking" a band is â not the gear. Of course it's nice to hear good musicians on good gear, but one is not a substitute for the other.

 

I don't mean to offend or criticize, just telling it the way I see it. If your efforts make you a happier player, go for it! They do call it playing music, after all.