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Roland RD-88


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Hmmm, RD-88 in combination with the FA-06 has endless possibilities (mine has the DB-1 Ocean Beach drawbars)! Wonder if Axial sounds will be available for the RD-88? The PHA4 action was one of the main reasons I loved the RD-800. :)

 

I think that Roland marketing crew made a golden decision to name all the actions as PHA IV. Then, people like you think Roland put key action from the flagship RD-800 into boards like RD-88, FP-10, FP-30 etc. It's not true. PHA IV Standard has different design from PHA IV Concert and Premium. PHA IV Standard is based on previous Ivory Feel G, while the Premium and Concert are based on Ivory Feel S and PHA III. The G and Standard action have weighting different from the full size PHAs and significantly shorter pivot length (however it is not very short) . It is not a bad action, but the Roland nomenclature is a bit confusing here. It becomes good or even very good action if a board like FP-10 features it.

 

PHA-50 is also based on the PHA4 Concert action but contains wooden sides, not the wood-like coloured plastic core like PHA III or PHA IV Concert had. Roland Grand Hybrid is based on PHA-50 but has way longer pivot length.

 

Oh that"s a shame. Not surprising - Yamaha does the same with GH, GHS, etc.

Although Roland seems even more convoluted.

Either way, we all know we"ve got to try before buy.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Hmmm, RD-88 in combination with the FA-06 has endless possibilities (mine has the DB-1 Ocean Beach drawbars)! Wonder if Axial sounds will be available for the RD-88? The PHA4 action was one of the main reasons I loved the RD-800. :)

 

I think that Roland marketing crew made a golden decision to name all the actions as PHA IV. Then, people like you think Roland put key action from the flagship RD-800 into boards like RD-88, FP-10, FP-30 etc. It's not true. PHA IV Standard has different design from PHA IV Concert and Premium. PHA IV Standard is based on previous Ivory Feel G, while the Premium and Concert are based on Ivory Feel S and PHA III. The G and Standard action have weighting different from the full size PHAs and significantly shorter pivot length (however it is not very short) . It is not a bad action, but the Roland nomenclature is a bit confusing here. It becomes good or even very good action if a board like FP-10 features it.

 

PHA-50 is also based on the PHA4 Concert action but contains wooden sides, not the wood-like coloured plastic core like PHA III or PHA IV Concert had. Roland Grand Hybrid is based on PHA-50 but has way longer pivot length.

 

Oh that"s a shame. Not surprising - Yamaha does the same with GH, GHS, etc.

Although Roland seems even more convoluted.

Either way, we all know we"ve got to try before buy.

 

True, but this discussion is pointing to red flags being the newly branded version of the same action and not very editable SuperNATURAL AP/EP tones that I couldn"t get with in the RD64. Fingers crossed on the latter till I can download an owners manual!

 

 

 

____________________________________
Rod

Here for the gear.

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Hmmm, RD-88 in combination with the FA-06 has endless possibilities (mine has the DB-1 Ocean Beach drawbars)! Wonder if Axial sounds will be available for the RD-88? The PHA4 action was one of the main reasons I loved the RD-800. :)

 

I think that Roland marketing crew made a golden decision to name all the actions as PHA IV. Then, people like you think Roland put key action from the flagship RD-800 into boards like RD-88, FP-10, FP-30 etc. It's not true. PHA IV Standard has different design from PHA IV Concert and Premium. PHA IV Standard is based on previous Ivory Feel G, while the Premium and Concert are based on Ivory Feel S and PHA III. The G and Standard action have weighting different from the full size PHAs and significantly shorter pivot length (however it is not very short) . It is not a bad action, but the Roland nomenclature is a bit confusing here. It becomes good or even very good action if a board like FP-10 features it.

 

PHA-50 is also based on the PHA4 Concert action but contains wooden sides, not the wood-like coloured plastic core like PHA III or PHA IV Concert had. Roland Grand Hybrid is based on PHA-50 but has way longer pivot length.

 

Oh that"s a shame. Not surprising - Yamaha does the same with GH, GHS, etc.

Although Roland seems even more convoluted.

Either way, we all know we"ve got to try before buy.

 

True, but this discussion is pointing to red flags being the newly branded version of the same action and not very editable SuperNATURAL AP/EP tones that I couldn"t get with in the RD64. Fingers crossed on the latter till I can download an owners manual!

 

 

 

They did state that the RD88 is going to be included with the Zen Core compatible instruments - including the FA models via a firmware update.

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Hmmm, RD-88 in combination with the FA-06 has endless possibilities (mine has the DB-1 Ocean Beach drawbars)! Wonder if Axial sounds will be available for the RD-88? The PHA4 action was one of the main reasons I loved the RD-800. :)

 

I think that Roland marketing crew made a golden decision to name all the actions as PHA IV. Then, people like you think Roland put key action from the flagship RD-800 into boards like RD-88, FP-10, FP-30 etc. It's not true. PHA IV Standard has different design from PHA IV Concert and Premium. PHA IV Standard is based on previous Ivory Feel G, while the Premium and Concert are based on Ivory Feel S and PHA III. The G and Standard action have weighting different from the full size PHAs and significantly shorter pivot length (however it is not very short) . It is not a bad action, but the Roland nomenclature is a bit confusing here. It becomes good or even very good action if a board like FP-10 features it.

 

PHA-50 is also based on the PHA4 Concert action but contains wooden sides, not the wood-like coloured plastic core like PHA III or PHA IV Concert had. Roland Grand Hybrid is based on PHA-50 but has way longer pivot length.

 

Oh that"s a shame. Not surprising - Yamaha does the same with GH, GHS, etc.

Although Roland seems even more convoluted.

Either way, we all know we"ve got to try before buy.

 

True, but this discussion is pointing to red flags being the newly branded version of the same action and not very editable SuperNATURAL AP/EP tones that I couldn"t get with in the RD64. Fingers crossed on the latter till I can download an owners manual!

 

 

Yamaha had GH action (being called also as GHE Graded Hammer Effect) before GHS. And the S letter always was differentiating full size GH action from the GHS action which is more different from GH than Roland PHA IV Standard from PHA IV Premium and Concert. Forum PianoWorld has lots of photos of disassembled digital pianos so it's best source of info.

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2337383/Roland_PHA_vs_lightweight_acti.html

 

For RD-88 and other pianos featuring PHA IV Standard, I read many reviews that PHA IV Standard really is noticeable upgrade from the Ivory Feel-G and not only Roland crew say that. It is not a bad action, I wanted only to say not every PHA IV is mechanically identical. It is not the best, but good action, especially in low-budget pianos where you get from Roland very good action for the price of the whole instrument, whereas Yamaha is putting better actions in way more expensive pianos

I think the RD-88 is the long-awaiten successor of RD-300NX. I really appreciate its slim and short form with wheels above the keybed, low weight and its features even if the sound engine doesn't seem to change a lot. Roland SuperNatural sound engine isn't bad sounding. I find it not really natural in terms of raw piano sample, particurarly in middle register, but it is very clean sound, with deep bass, and you can play good sounding chords in quite low registers without getting much dissonance. Also, it has one of the best sounding sustains when playing long notes - it's rich with much resonance, while Yamaha has obvious short-looping even in flagship models, but I find the Yamaha raw samples, being the "root" of sound more natural. Roland SuperNatural fits also well in band context.

Yamaha P-515, Korg SV-2 73, Kurzweil PC4-7

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Wonder if Axial sounds will be available for the RD-88?

With Zen-Core compatibility between RD-88, Fantom, Jupiter, AX-Edge, I would think that it is likely that they will come out with expansions that would work with all of them.

 

But I listen to the demos of the rotary with the organ sounds and I just wonder, how does it even get into production with that sound?!! I know its not supposed to be a clone, but I cant imagine using that rotary sound, EVER! In a pinch, i'd just leave off the rotary effect and live with slow or stopped! People have said it before, but come on this is 2020!!! Forget flying cars, i'd just like manufacturers to actually listen to a real rotary speaker and get 70% there!! Its like they've never actually heard the real thing!!

I suspect it may simply be beyond the effects capabilities of the boards. The Roland is not the worst I've heard.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I was thinking as follows when deciding on the sound and playability of a DP.

Sampled DPs like Yamaha"s P515 tend to have a lack of immediacy when playing. And then there"s that vast bunch of samples libraries to run on your computer.

Modeled DPs like Roland"s V-Piano in their FP-90 or RD-2000 are second to Pianoteq in my book.

Finally there"s the SuperNatural approach of the RD-88, seemingly combining the strengths of samples and modeling. So I got the RD-88.

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The Zen-Core compatibility intrigues me, because depending on exactly how that's implemented in the real world, it pushes the RD-88's range of sound options much higher. I'm sure it doesn't turn into a Fantom, but if its even halfway useful, some players are going to raise eyebrows when they get a giant Fantom patch to suddenly appear. You certainly wouldn't buy this for that purpose first, but the potential is fascinating. Domi IS a fine player, such that if I had any doubts about the RD's general playability for its main purpose, she banished them. Her fluidity is the best ad I've seen for it.

 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

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Tried to click on and got a 'this video is private' notification.

 

I agree with DF, she IS talented, but I find a similar feeling... these chopmeisters don"t let the music BREATHE.

It gets tiring to listen to and keeps most non-practitioning folk away.....

For all their transcendental chops, Art and Oscar ALWAYS knew how to make music breathe!

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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"The Zen-Core compatibility intrigues me, because depending on exactly how that's implemented in the real world, it pushes the RD-88's range of sound options much higher."

 

Yes, now that Roland announced Zen-Core "tones" are going to be able to be shared across many of their newest keyboards it makes this RD-88 that much more interesting. You would still need the ability to edit/tweak those tones and that could be done with a Jupiter Xm for example or Jupiter X, or of course a Fantom. Or maaaaybe...with an editor app for the RD-88 ? Zen-Core tones can be pretty powerful complex tones made of up to 4 partials and as I understand it, multiple LFOs, multiple filter options, step LFO. So yeah, I am really going to look at this board, especially as a complement to a Jupiter X. I still have my Fantom on trial basis but I think I am going to like a combo of Jupiter X + RD-88 more (and return the Fantom)

Kurzweil Forte 7, Mojo 61, Yamaha P-125,

Kronos X61, Nautilus 73

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I'm very interested in the rd as a controller for my computer setup, and Bonus that is has its own sounds and speakers!

 

But I listen to the demos of the rotary with the organ sounds and I just wonder, how does it even get into production with that sound?!! I know its not supposed to be a clone, but I cant imagine using that rotary sound, EVER! In a pinch, i'd just leave off the rotary effect and live with slow or stopped! People have said it before, but come on this is 2020!!! Forget flying cars, i'd just like manufacturers to actually listen to a real rotary speaker and get 70% there!! Its like they've never actually heard the real thing!!

 

Sorry, rant over! ;)

 

Just out of interest, why not go for the A-88mkII then if it's for a computer setup? Keys should be the same I think?

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The Zen-Core compatibility intrigues me...You certainly wouldn't buy this for that purpose first, but the potential is fascinating.

Maybe not "first" but I could at least see it being very significant. When the Grandstage was first announced with its Kronos engines. I had hoped that--as long as you stuck to programs created with those same engines (and stock samples)--you'd be able to load Kronos programs into it. If there were a <30 lb 88-key Korg that could load Kronos programs, yeah, I would probably buy it just for that. Do my programming at home, and play the sounds from the portable. So it will be interesting to see the full capabilities of Zen-Core and this compatibility.

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I'm very interested in the rd as a controller for my computer setup, and Bonus that is has its own sounds and speakers!

 

But I listen to the demos of the rotary with the organ sounds and I just wonder, how does it even get into production with that sound?!! I know its not supposed to be a clone, but I cant imagine using that rotary sound, EVER! In a pinch, i'd just leave off the rotary effect and live with slow or stopped! People have said it before, but come on this is 2020!!! Forget flying cars, i'd just like manufacturers to actually listen to a real rotary speaker and get 70% there!! Its like they've never actually heard the real thing!!

 

Sorry, rant over! ;)

 

Just out of interest, why not go for the A-88mkII then if it's for a computer setup? Keys should be the same I think?

 

Less length

Built in audio interface

ability to list/navigate the patches on the keyboard display

Speakers for practicing

Wheels (hate the lever!!!!)

Slightly lighter...

 

oh yeah, forgot built-in (decent, I hope!) sounds for simple gigs that don't require the complexity of the computer setup...

 

 

 

 

 

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This intrigues me; will have to play one when they arrive in the stores. I have a dedicated SN piano - a Roland FP-50 - that occupies my teaching space; sometimes it's a go-to for solo piano stuff as well. The studio is up a couple flights of stairs,so shaving 10 lbs off of my portable DP is attractive; so is having the additional features and functions of the RD-88. Then there's the Z-Core Tone compatibility with the Fantom - for which I've already written several Tones.

 

Looking forward to hearing more, and playing one as well. Might be at GearFest though, unless I get to Fort Wayne sooner..

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

My local instrument store with unfortunate acronym (Proffesional Music Technology) in the UK said they were expecting the shipment of the RD88 to be delayed by a number of weeks due to loads of goods sitting in containers in Chinese ports.Coronorvirus uncertainty - so who knows when.

 

After ditching the FP90 I said I wouldnt be getting another board with the Roland piano sound any time soon but the rest of the RD88 package ticks a few boxes for me. Also Jon Cleary is a great advert for the brand - says a lot for the action as much as the piano sound.

 

Others have commented that the Rd88s piano in the vids comes across a bit harsh or metalic sounding - and I tend to agree. But I just realised that the default piano (Concert Grand 001) is the BRITE grand version. Cant think why the did that but it aint typical.

 

Thommen's website has hi-res photos - you can read the patch name if you zoom in on the screen.

 

 

 

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Looks like an nice bread n butter board with the bonus of the audio interface and this Zen audio compatibility. Nice of Roland to finally ditch the mod controls on the left and put them up high, as well as replace them with wheels. Though they look like they"ve been stuck on as part of a last minute decision. Almost like they built the keyboard and then while looking at it realised they forgot to include a mod wheel and stuck one on the top. Doesn"t look as integrated as the rest of the board. More an observation on my part rather than a criticism.

 

At the price it looks like it could compete very well against Yamaha CP73. Bigger palette of sounds and expandable with the zen core is. 88 notes, cheaper. Lots of pluses with this board. Keybed would be my main interest. Looking forward to trying it out once it hits the shelves.

Yamaha MODX8, Legend Live.
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She's a terrific talent ! And the keyboard sounds good too. Hard to come away with anything solid at NAMM but this very well could dominate that price point category. I'll be playing it myself when it hits the stores for something in the office. And maybe take for weekend get away vacations. The P-515 is kinda heavy for that.

 

An aside- I don't dig that drummer's groove with all the 16ths on the high-hat, and ride, at those faster tempos. Sounds nervous and edgey to me. No space/air between the beats. When I play with someone like that, it locks me in to a space that is uncomfortable and forces me to play a certain way.. I notice a lot of young Mill drummers play like this. Give the time a more open and breathing feel...relax !

 

Tell 'em to go listen to the Aja album--in particular Peg and Josie :D

 

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...Nice of Roland to finally ditch the mod controls on the left and put them up high, as well as replace them with wheels. Though they look like they"ve been stuck on as part of a last minute decision. Almost like they built the keyboard and then while looking at it realised they forgot to include a mod wheel and stuck one on the top. Doesn"t look as integrated as the rest of the board. More an observation on my part rather than a criticism.

I know what you mean about the wheels-- but I believe this was the best design decision they could make. A lot of people in this forum complain about wheels being located to the left of the keybed. Most people (I am not one of them) seem to prefer they be located "up high" as you said. But what is often not considered is that wheels require space under the top surface of the keyboard-- space that is often already occupied by the keybed mechanism or other internals. I believe the only solution is to either make the entire keyboard thicker, or to do what Roland did here-- make a little "block" to house the wheels and their underlying mechanism.

 

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