My Guitar Player Actually Turned Down!

[Mr. Nightime]

I played a double this Saturday in my Funky Blues Project band. The guitar player, who the band is named after runs through a Mesa equivalent of a Marshall Half Stack.

 

During the first gig, he placed it on top of the PA rack right behind me. Everyone but me uses In Ear Monitors. With my hearing aids, I cannot use them, so I have my own monitor. So, the only reason for his amp is for the tone. He gets his mix through the in-ears, and the FOH supplies for the crowd

 

First song first set, the guitar was SO F-IN LOUD that it was painful. Soon as the song was over, I asked him to turn it down.

 

Wonder of Wonders - He DID! But, not enough

 

After second song, I had him turn down again, then again after third song.

 

By this time I was able to hear a nice balance of everyone on stage. I told him that he should weld the volume knob at that point. We got to the end of the set, and he commented about how much better it sounded once he turned his guitar down.

 

We played 3 more sets there, tore down, set up at a different venue, and played 3 more sets, and the volume on his guitar stayed the same.

 

I know, it's a miracle. A guitar player that will listen to you.

 

Plus, he WANTS to hear the keyboards.

 

 

[mcgoo]

When I read the title, I thought you were going to start by saying, "so I handed him a chart..."

[Stokely]

Ah too bad you can't use Iems.

 

With guitar and loud amps on stage, it's feast or famine...either they are not pointing at you and you can't really hear them or (worse) they ARE pointing at you and it's all you can hear.

 

I feel like I'm in heaven with our guy, who runs direct with an Ax8. I not only can control him (and anyone else) from my phone app, but I'm in stereo so I've got his guitar at 10 'o clock, freeing up the rest of the spectrum for vocals and keys!

[Doerfler]

he commented about how much better it sounded once he turned his guitar down.

 

first time for everything.

 

[Michael Wright]

[Michael Wright]

When I read the title, I thought you were going to start by saying, "so I handed him a chart..."

 

 

[Baldwin Funster]

Next you're gonna say he helped you carry in your gear. Or introduced you to one of his 3 groupies. Or....that all I got.

[Mr. Nightime]

When I read the title, I thought you were going to start by saying, "so I handed him a chart..."

 

Would have been too easy.

[MathOfInsects]

A nice part of getting older is that I have no trouble at all asking someone to point their cabinet a different way or baffle an open back, and they have no trouble writing the request off to me being old. But I have to say, it really happens very rarely these days. Most guys have good equipment-hygiene.

 

As a corollary, I am getting just aged enough that young guys don't know if I am losing my hearing or not. I am decidedly not (I just went to the audiologist, and damn well wish I were because I don't want to pay out of pocket for custom ear-plugs, so was hoping to wrangle some kind of diagnosis that could get them covered. Nope. Perfect ear health). BUT...when I don't feel like answering something, now I can just keep plugging cables in like I don't hear it, and anyone who doesn't know me assumes I am just going deaf.

[CowboyNQ]

A nice part of getting older is that I have no trouble at all asking someone to point their cabinet a different way or baffle an open back, and they have no trouble writing the request off to me being old. But I have to say, it really happens very rarely these days. Most guys have good equipment-hygiene.

+1

 

[Anderton]

A lot of times it's the processing as well as the volume. If you turn down the distortion drive controls and don't go crazy above 2 kHz, guitars can be productive members of society.

[cphollis]

I let my guitar player try my older IEMs, plus I miked his amp with an SM57. He said he was in audio heaven -- great tone, total control of volume, etc. This experience taught me that many guitarists just might not be familiar with all the ways to tame volume while preserving a great tone.

[Mr. Nightime]

My guy has this one setting on his Line 6 that has a really severe 60 cycle hum. I noticed that once he turned down, the hum was barely noticeable.

 

I commented to him that with the in ears, and the PA, all he really needed on stage was a Fender Deluxe. His comment was, "Then it will sound like a Fender Deluxe".

 

My reply, "And?"

 

I guess he really likes the tone of the Mesa

 

I just listened to a recording made during the second gig. Balance is close, but still not quite enough keys. The lead was where the rhythm should be. I'll get it right soon.

 

 

[Synthoid]

he commented about how much better it sounded once he turned his guitar down.

 

first time for everything.

 

It's a miracle!

 

 

 

[vonnor]

Sticky this. LOL.

[Ken Beaumont]

The end is nigh. A plague of locusts, the corona virus, and now this. Surely this is a sign.

[KuruPrionz]

Ha, gotta love being stereotyped!! :- D

Yeah, I play guitar in a band. Currently using a Boss Katana 100 Combo set at 1/2 of one watt. The DI has a speaker sim and sounds great through the PA.

The amp stand I use aims the amp at my head since I don't have ears in the back of my knees. I never hear that I am too loud from anybody, usually they are telling me to turn it up.

I tell them to talk to our bandleader about running me hotter in the house mix, I am happy where things are now.

 

Yes, a Mesa and a Fender Deluxe sound profoundly different. If you played a Rhodes and I told you to switch to a Whirly because I think you should? Hmm...

That said, Mesa makes a 1-10" combo that can be set to 5 watts and it is more than enough for gigging. A half stack is just overkill, not needed. Not my band or politics, just FWIW...

 

Currently we are a 4 piece with acoustic (electric) guitar, vocals, electric guitar (me), bass and drums.

We had a keyboard player but he wouldn't quit mucking up the low end with his left hand.

I did say "had". Gone, we don't miss the murk.

 

There you go, a stereotyped reply! :- D

We could make bass player jokes or pick on drummers.

Would love to have some of the keyboardists we know locally but they are all currently commited to other projects. So it goes.

Peace in the valley, have fun, Kuru

[Morrissey]

In my experience, the too-loud guitar amp on stage is often due to poor placement of the amp, often on the floor pointed towards somebodies shoes. Some of the stereotype is that guitarists insist they need a certain volume/tube saturation to get "their tone," but I've encountered that challenge much less frequently.

[Delaware Dave]

In one of my bands we have two guitar players, one uses a 100 watt Marshall head into a Marshall 4 x 12 1960 Lead cabinet. The other uses a bunch of different equipment but often a 100 watt Marshall head into a 4 x12 cabinet as well. The sound is deafening. Saturday night he was sick with the flu and therefore as a 4 piece I moved to one side of the stage and the other guitar player was on the other side. I setup with my same level adjustments that I use every gig with those guys and couldn't believe how loud I was with one of the guitar players missing. It was frightening. It took me all of 10 seconds to recognize that i was overbearing and turned back to a much more normal volume. Everything sounded much better. So removing one guitar player out of mix allowed me to cutback my stage volume exponentially. If I could get both of them to cut their volumes in half then I could cut my volume down as well and overall it would sound much better. With their current levels I'm buried in the mix unless I jack everything up in my rig.

 

G*d D@mn F^&*(ng Guitar Players!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JoeToGo]

Ha, gotta love being stereotyped!! :- D

Yeah, I play guitar in a band. Currently using a Boss Katana 100 Combo set at 1/2 of one watt.

We could make bass player jokes or pick on drummers.

We could ... and yet, it's guitarists who are notorious for being too loud, on instruments that have volume knobs.

I too play guitar -- as often as keyboards if not more -- and recently made it my policy to not even audition for two-guitar bands, unless one of them was me. My theory is this: the guitarists I've known have typically developed their skill by playing along with recordings, and consequently get used to sounding as loud as the rest of the band combined. So when there's two of them, it gets muddy; they can't hear their SOUND. Solution? Turn up. Of course then the other guitarist does likewise, and -- well ....

 

More to the point, perhaps, is the number of times I have had other players' guitar amps pointed straight at me.

The last band I played in, the singer/rhythm guitarist had his amp up on a chair directly next to (and facing) where I had to be. He was literally louder to me than to anyone else in the room, including himself. When I turned it slightly away he said "don't touch my amp man" and then turned it back. He had that same Katana, which was always turned up to the top amp setting, and it buzzed pretty loudly. Later we figured it was the amp setting; any other one was quieter, and the buzz was gone entirely on the Fender setting. But y'know, that wasn't his SOUND. To be honest, it wasn't that big a deal ... except it was directly pointed at me, making it harder to hear my own setup.

 

Since I often play bass, I have even waited to see how the guitarist set up his rig, then chose a location out of the line of fire ... only to have him re-orient his amp toward me (I kid you not). At that point, I start to question my own sanity.

 

After all that, I'm glad to say there is a local guitarist who is FANTASTIC and doesn't play very loud -- I always want to turn him up, just a tch. And he plays a half stack! His name is Travis Kent; if you're in the Seattle area, he's worth seeking out. Holdsworth-ish but not so Holdsworth-ish.

 

Oh, I guess there's me. But I was dropped from a blues band for playing guitar as loud as the bandleader. Shoulda known better I guess.

[jazzpiano88]

I played a double this Saturday in my Funky Blues Project band. The guitar player, who the band is named after runs through a Mesa equivalent of a Marshall Half Stack.

Was his name Mister Wonderful, or Mister Fabulous?

I'm pretty sure I've heard of both of them

[Outkaster]

Doesn't matter they are all guilty.

[Mr. Nightime]

I played a double this Saturday in my Funky Blues Project band. The guitar player, who the band is named after runs through a Mesa equivalent of a Marshall Half Stack.

Was his name Mister Wonderful, or Mister Fabulous?

I'm pretty sure I've heard of both of them

 

His name is Bobby Bradshaw. He is a recent transplant to Florida from Colorado Springs.

 

He is actually a good player, nice guy, with not much ego. He's very generous on stage. He wants the whole band to shine, not just him.

 

The more I work with him, the better we'll get things dialed in as far as placement and levels are concerned. He's open to suggestions, and will do what he needs to do to make the band better.

 

I really consider myself lucky, in that the guitar player in my other band is a definite pro. He sets his amp behind him, pointed up. It is usually sitting beside, not behind me. Uses a small amp, because he does not need all that much power.

 

Yes there are so many jokes and stereotypes about guitar players. But that's because there are so many of them that fit the stereotype.

 

I've lost track of how many times I've had to put my musical foot down in jam situations because of multiple guitar players starting "Guitar Wars". They would get louder and louder until I had enough, and demonstrated just what a 2000 watt keyboard rig can do.

 

 

[CEB]

I was never in a position where I couldn"t win a volume war. Myself and a lot of us here used to play through rigs that rivaled many a PA. That is just how we rolled in the Midwest in the 70s and 80s. Crown amps, large passive 3 way cabs. Rack mixer EQ and along with processors and synth modules. Just because you could win a war didn"t mean you always chose to fight. Because there are no real winners.

[Threadslayer]

My theory is this: the guitarists I've known have typically developed their skill by playing along with recordings, and consequently get used to sounding as loud as the rest of the band combined.

My theory as well. Corollary to that theory is that same practice of playing along with recordings leads to a lack of situational/spatial awareness of musical space leading to excessive noodling and stepping on other people's (keyboardists) toes.

 

[The Real MC]

My theory is this: the guitarists I've known have typically developed their skill by playing along with recordings, and consequently get used to sounding as loud as the rest of the band combined.

My theory as well. Corollary to that theory is that same practice of playing along with recordings leads to a lack of situational/spatial awareness of musical space leading to excessive noodling and stepping on other people's (keyboardists) toes.

 

Too many guitar players lack the skills of playing in an ensemble. I had an experience like that two years ago and was not shy about pointing it out. I was constructive and left the door open should the situation improve. Guess who didn't stay with the band?

 

I also refuse to work in bands with two guitar players. Too frustrating to fit keyboards in that wall of sound.

 

There ARE guitar players out there who work well in a group, there's just not enough of them.

[Mr. Nightime]

I've been in two bands with two guitar players. The first was a group called Fat City, Both guitar players were good players, but one of them was really guilty of "Noodling" and would get belligerent if something was said.

 

The other was a band called The Old Men Brothers. Everyone had at one time or another made their living playing Country, Classic Rock, or Blues, and as such knew how they should all sound.

 

We had two guitars, one rhythm/lead, and the other a slide specialist. Each had their own space.

 

As far as turning up and putting the guitars in their place, it only has happened a couple times, and was applauded by the rest of the players on stage, as they were getting pretty fed up as well.

 

My bass player in the Blues band commented to me that I'm the first keyboard player he ever worked with that was able to find the right place in the mix - not too loud, not too soft. I don't like being too loud.

 

I've tried to have a PA quality setup for a long time, because I want my kit to be clean at all times, unless I intentionally introduce distortion.

 

For that, you need lots of headroom, lots of power. I used a Crown D150 in mono or a Yamaha P2100 in stereo for years., and currently either use a single QSC K10, or a pair of 12" Mackie Thumps