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Reco's needed: digital piano


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My son has started gigging in a jazz trio (he's on a jazz piano scholly at CCM).

 

He needs/wants an inexpensive (under $500 preferably used), lightweight, 88 key, weighted action board with a solid piano sound. No other sounds needed or used. No need for internal speakers.

 

I know Yamaha makes a few models, there's a Numa Compact 2 model... and probably others... but we don't have a decent music store near us.

 

Reco's please!

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I strongly recommend that he find the extra dough and get a Casio S3000. Solid action, solid sound and dream weight. There are cheaper boards, but you get what you pay for.
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I had a Casio PX S3000. I play jazz professionally. After 4 gigs I replaced it with a Kawai ES110 for $655 delivered. Very pleased that I did. It"s the same weight as the Casio but handles a jazz gig better. I also tried the P125 but it wasn"t any fun.

 

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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Numa Compact is unweighted. For jazz piano I'd avoid that like the Coronavirus (too soon?).

 

If you're really capped at $500, then you're likely in the used market, which means you're choices will be limited.

 

I have a Yamaha P121 and like it a lot. It has speakers but is still only 22 lbs, so lighter than anything without speakers. Speakers are handy, he can probably do some rehearsals and quiet gigs with just the onboard amplification. The 121 is 73 keys. That shouldn't be a problem for jazz. He's young, he should be adaptable.

 

I'd take a similarly-priced Yamaha piano over a Korg any day. But of course that's personal preference.

 

I did a search for the P121 and this used one at Guitar Center came up for $449. "Great" condition. You can return it if don't like.

 

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Yamaha/P121-Keyboard-Workstation-116010891.gc?source=4WWRWXMP&msclkid=7fb27aafbd251352eea824e6e55c9a1f&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%5BADL%5D%20%5BGC%5D%20%5BPLA%5D%20%5BShopping%5D%20-%20(Keys%20%26%20Midi%20-%20Other)%20-%20%7BMQ%7D%20-%20%5BUsed%5D&utm_term=4578984922302349&utm_content=%7BMQ%7D%20Keys%20%26%20Midi%20-%20Other%20(Used)%20(GC)%20(Bing)&adlclid=ADL-99c8e2c0-f0ea-448a-98f9-f3f2bb49551a

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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I have recently been testing quite a few DP"s in the price range you quite.

 

Casio S1000, looks good, action 5 out of 10

 

Casio S3000, as 1000 but with more arranger type functions

 

Korg B2, NH action, no feel. 4 out of 10

 

Korg D1, action 6 out of 10

 

Yamaha P125, action 8 out of 10

 

Kawai ES110, noisy and clacky hence terrible action on the in store model 2 out of 10

 

Roland FP30, action 9 out of 10

 

Sound quality, acoustic piano sounds

 

Yamaha P125, 10/10

 

Roland FP 30 8/10

 

Casio S series 7/10

 

Korg D1 7/10

 

Kawai ES110, no idea on sound quality since the action was so bad I did not turn the keyboard on.

 

In the end I bought a Yamaha P121 which has the same action as the P125 but with 73 keys and hence it means it is far lighter and easier to transport. Whilst the Yamaha has inbuilt amp and speaker they are easily muted if the line outs are to be used. My P121 interfaces with my iPad and all the music related apps work well and give a vast array of additional sounds if needed. The keyboard has splits and layers if needed, a single push of the Bass button gives a bass sound to left hand which could add variation to the performance

 

Hope this helps

 

 

Col

 

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I had a Casio PX S3000. I play jazz professionally. After 2 gigs I replaced it with a Kawai ES110 for $660 delivered. Very pleased that I did. It"s the same weight as the Casio.

 

Replaced it because?

 

If Jazz+ is like me he returned it because of the action. A lot of people seem to like it but I never could work up any liking for it (the action) at all.

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Hi!

 

Biggies list is actually very good, and as I have some experience with both the Numa Compact 2X and a Kawai MP 6 I thought that would add my 2 cents.

 

First , I agree with an earlier post that the Numa Compacts are not well-suited for this purpose, particularly for a beginner. Their action is simply too light to develop the necessary technique.

 

Most Korg DP's have actions that tend to be a matter of taste but not generally a prime choice for many players here due to some sluggishness.... Definitely try first before deciding!

 

The Kawai acoustic piano voices tend to be very good, actually. The ES-110 is worth looking at, if you can find one to try. I wouldn't buy sight unseen, though.

 

The Yamaha P-121 (73 key) and P-125 (88 key) are solid jazz choices and contain a good but basic assortment of Acoustic and EP voices, as well as the option for left-hand bass as well.

 

The Roland FP-30 is the other prime option in the price range, and has a surprisingly decent action also. I have not tried the FP-10.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------

 

Gig: Yamaha MODX7, NumaX 73 Piano  Studio: Kawai ES-920; Hammond SK Pro 73; Yamaha Motif ES7 w/DX,VL,VH; Yamaha YC 73; Kawai MP-6; Numa Compact 2x

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Biggles is mistaken about the Kawai ES110 action. It"s quiet and it"s excellent for jazz soloing. I thought I liked the S3000 action but after 10-15 minutes of fast soloing I was worn out for the night. Forget about carrying on for a couple of sets. The extremely short pivot point makes the action fatiguing, it becomes too much work . I am not willing to work that hard, I would just as soon give up playing as go through that suffering again and again. I did around 5 gigs with it.

 

Biggles must have encountered a defective or abused unit. His whole list makes me think he is more a rock or pop player than a straight ahead jazz player. I don"t think he is playing sets of jazz tunes with lots of lengthy right hand bop solos. Nobody wants a heavy action for that sort of playing. His ratings favor boards with heavier actions and brighter more over pronounced hammers, more conducive for pop styles than long flowing horn like bop lines which are physically and mentally a lot of work.

 

The Kawai ES110 is likely the best $650 digital piano for jazz. Better than a Yamaha P-125 witch has a pretty crappy action, has a thin in the mid range piano tone, a heavy hammered percussive attack and ia horrendous Rhodes patch. I tried the P125 for one gig but it wasn"t any fun. I am a fan of the Yamaha CP4, just so you know I"m not prejudiced against Yamahas. I also was fan of Roland digital pianos (the 'Superior Grand' models like RD-700SX, FP4) before they later decided to overweight their actions, which was at the same time they introduced their ' Super Natural Piano' models, which made the new action design heavier, sluggish and exhausting... it"s sort of like trying to be a fast sprint runner with mountain boots on.

 

Ideally I like the action of an old German Bechstein nine foot grand piano with 'fly away keys'. That is about 35 grams of downweight at middle C. I don"t want to be forced to have to hit hard.

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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Biggles is mistaken about the Kawai ES110 action. It"s quiet and it"s excellent for jazz soloing. I thought I liked the S3000 action but after 10-15 minutes of fast soloing I was worn out for the night. Forget about carrying on for a couple of sets. The extremely short pivot point makes the action fatiguing, it becomes too much work . I am not willing to work that hard, I would just as soon give up playing as go through that suffering again and again. I did around 5 gigs with it.

 

Biggles must have encountered a defective or abused unit. His whole list makes me think he is more a rock or pop player than a straight ahead jazz player. I don"t think he is playing sets of jazz tunes with lots of lengthy right hand bop solos. Nobody wants a heavy action for that sort of playing. His ratings favor boards with heavier actions and brighter more over pronounced hammers, more conducive for pop styles than long flowing horn like bop lines which are physically and mentally a lot of work.

 

The Kawai ES110 is likely the best $650 digital piano for jazz. Better than a Yamaha P-125 witch has a pretty crappy action, has a thin in the mid range piano tone, a heavy hammered percussive attack and ia horrendous Rhodes patch. I tried the P125 for one gig but it wasn"t any fun. I am a fan of the Yamaha CP4, just so you know I"m not prejudiced against Yamahas. I also was fan of Roland digital pianos (the 'Superior Grand' models like RD-700SX, FP4) before they later decided to overweight their actions, which was at the same time they introduced their ' Super Natural Piano' models, which made the new action design heavier, sluggish and exhausting... it"s sort of like trying to be a fast sprint runner with mountain boots on.

 

Ideally I like the action of an old German Bechstein nine foot grand piano with 'fly away keys'. That is about 35 grams of downweight at middle C. I don"t want to be forced to have to hit hard.

 

I can only report on what I found hence there is no mistake about the action that I encountered.

 

If a major music store has a defective keyboard on display then their QC sucks as does Kawai"s for allowing a cr4p keyboard to exit their production line.

 

If the noisy clacky action is indicative of this model then I would not pay cash for such a board.

 

As it was there was another Kawai DP on display that had a very good action but it was £1000 more.

 

For $500 with the requirements the Op quotes then the products available are pretty limited, compromises will need to be made or the budget greatly increased.

 

Col

 

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I have played three different recent ES 110 units and all three we"re fine. I have played a dozen gigs with the ES110. I practice with it daily. I read on the Piano World Forum that 3 years ago there was a problem whith some units having noisy keys when it first debuted three years ago but that Kawai replaced those units free of charge and changed the action design by changing the felt they were using. Many users on the Piano World Forum testify that Kawai ES110 is not noisy since the initial lot was updated. They have been selling for over 3 yeas now. One messed up unit doesn"t disqualify an entire model, Especially when a respected digital piano action company like Kawai corrects the issue soon after it"s release.

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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Hello Biggles,

 

If a major music store has a defective keyboard on display then their QC sucks as does Kawai"s for allowing a cr4p keyboard to exit their production line.

I wouldn't describe the ES110 as having a noisy or "claky" action, however I obviously haven't seen or played the instrument that you checked.

 

Would you be willing to send me a PM with the name of the dealer, please? I'll ask my colleagues at Kawai UK if they can look into this matter.

 

Kind regards,

James

x

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Spoke with my son, and here's a little more info that may help...

 

He likes the lighter action of the Steinways at CCM and would prefer a lighter action DP as well..

 

He is definitely NOT a rock player... jazz ONLY.

 

ONLY.....how old is this son? It's a big wonderful world out there. I'll take swing or the ASB over modern jazz myself.....with exceptions, of course. I was a foolish genre snob for a few decades, but now I got my own 808 LOL

 

Both Studiologic and Roland recently discontinued 7x hammer action boards, so those may be good deals. I think the trouble will be finding a truly good piano. Kawai does seem to get the most votes in that department, but can it match a 40gb sampled grand from a fast laptop? I doubt it.

 

To this day I never heard a piano---acoustic replica---which inspired me, but I have heard some great EPs, and organs etc. My U1 clone just laughs at digital pianos. I'm not sure why it's so hard. Wendy, that famous guitar player, was saying the other eve: from any acoustic instrument players are distinct inherently. You don't have to randomize ;) Many synth caves have uprights in them. Never easier to tune your own either.

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Spoke with my son, and here's a little more info that may help...

 

He likes the lighter action of the Steinways at CCM and would prefer a lighter action DP as well..

 

He is definitely NOT a rock player... jazz ONLY.

Spoke with my son, and here's a little more info that may help...

 

He likes the lighter action of the Steinways at CCM and would prefer a lighter action DP as well..

 

He is definitely NOT a rock player... jazz ONLY.

 

Right on. Action is the must important criteria in my world, that and having a board under 30 pounds that I can transport without injury or being too tired from lugging it by the time I get set up at a gig.

The other criteria is full bodied single notes. Notes that I can solo with that wont sound thin with an exaggerated hammer strike sample, as rock and pop pianos favor. Most digital pianos hype the hammer attack samples and drop the sustain tone right after that hammer strike, thus melody lines sound overly percussive (hammered) and choppy. That really bugs me. I want a flowing horn like piano tone when I solo. I want the keys to fly away. I don"t want a lot of resistance weight or friction that wears me out after 10 minutes of fast jazz.

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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I strongly recommend that he find the extra dough and get a Casio S3000. Solid action, solid sound and dream weight. There are cheaper boards, but you get what you pay for.

though since he said "solid piano sound. No other sounds needed or used" the cheaper PX-S1000 would probably do just as well... AFAIK, they're identical in their action and basic piano sound (though the 3000 provides some more variations to the sound).

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Jan 2020 review

 

https://buydigitalpiano.com/kawai-es110-review

 

'The 88 keys on the Kawai ES110 are weighted and graded.

Kawai uses actual hammers instead of springs, which creates a more realistic feeling to the keys.

 

The positions of the key pivot point and the hammer pivot point give the keys a light and responsive action.

 

What further improves the responsiveness and control of the key movement is the placement of the dual sensor. The sensors are beneath the middle of the keys rather than near the key pivot point. This sensor placement makes it easier to play faster and you get a more immediate response from the key movements.

 

Overall, the key action of the Kawai ES110 is excellent for its price. Many, including myself, prefer the Responsive Hammer Compact compare to what other brands can offer at the same price range.'

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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All the DP"s quoted new are over $650 so quite a bit over budget.

 

New, nearer to $500 will be a completely difference range of models such as a Korg B2, Yamaha P45, Roland FP 10, Casio PX 160.

 

What is there on EBay, Craigs List etc?

 

Probably a totally different set of DP"s.

 

Hence all the Pros and Cons of one keyboard over another is a mute point unless the budget is raised or one of the suggested models just happens to be being sold.

 

Perhaps ringing around a few music stores to see what is available as a return or ex demo could yield a result closer to budget

Col

 

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All the DP"s quoted new are over $650 so quite a bit over budget.

 

New, nearer to $500 will be a completely difference range of models such as a Korg B2, Yamaha P45, Roland FP 10, Casio PX 160.

 

What is there on EBay, Craigs List etc?

 

Probably a totally different set of DP"s.

 

Hence all the Pros and Cons of one keyboard over another is a mute point unless the budget is raised or one of the suggested models just happens to be being sold.

 

Perhaps ringing around a few music stores to see what is available as a return or ex demo could yield a result closer to budget

 

Take a look at Reverb.com. There happens to be a Casio px-s1000 for 519 used free shipping. (I didn"t look extensively for keyboards mentioned above, just checked one)

 

Chris

Main gear: Yamaha C7, Kronos 2 88, Moog Sub 37, CK61,  Kurzweil PC2x, Pearl epro, Mac/Logic/AUs

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James

 

I missed your request

 

The ES110 was on display at Promenade Music in Morecambe.

 

I am not exaggerating in the noise that this keyboard made, I did go though all the DP"s they had on display in the shop and the ES110 was the only one with a noisy keybed, even the Roland Go Piano 88 nearby felt considerably better than the ES110.

 

There was another Kawai on the lower tier which had a very good action but was considerably more expensive, alas I do not know which model it was.

 

I returned to the music store a week later after posting a brief review on another forum of the models that I played and had another play on the ES110 to prove to myself that I was not mistaken or being overly critical.

 

I was very disappointed with the ES110 that I looked at as I was advised to go and check one out by someone who has an MP and he thought that it would be exactly what I am seeking and after reading reviews and looking at the online videos I thought that my buy would be between the ES110 and a Roland FP30.

 

 

 

Col

 

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He's going to play a Yamaha P125 tonight.

 

There are a few demo units online for $539.

 

Without the ability to play the other units (no one near us carries any of the other models all we have is a Guitar Center), if he likes it... I think we're done.

 

Thanks for all the help and responses!

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I am certainly not trying to influence your decision since you should be able to achieve the same with any other DP in this price range.

 

I connect up my iPad and have whatever app I want available to sound through the P121"s speakers. Hence I use my P121 with Galileo 2, Music Studio and Korg Gadget plus other synth apps.

 

BTW should the Roland FP range come into consideration be aware that there are no line outputs as such, only outputs are via the headphone socket.

 

If you have an iPad there is a Yamaha App that works very well with the P series to enable customisation of Registrations and their creation.

 

Good luck with the test play

Col

 

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He's going to play a Yamaha P125 tonight.

 

There are a few demo units online for $539.

 

Without the ability to play the other units (no one near us carries any of the other models all we have is a Guitar Center), if he likes it... I think we're done.

 

Thanks for all the help and responses!

Guitar Center has one of the best online inventories around of used gear. Bonus is that it carries the same 45 return policy of new gear, so try away at your hearts content.

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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If a major music store has a defective keyboard on display then their QC sucks as does Kawai"s for allowing a cr4p keyboard to exit their production line.

 

When I was in the market, I went to Guitar Center. They had multiple versions of the same Yamaha products on display. P255s and P125s I think were the two models I tried -- so a least four separate boards. Side by side on the exact same product, the actions differed markedly. I asked one of the sales people and the response was "They get played *a lot*. The actions do wear in. One hasn't been out as long as the other." (At least one of them I played was to the point where the action could be described as "cr4p.")

 

There was also a used Korg SV1 there that looked like it had seen combat but its action was delightful. So who knows. My guess is compromises have to be made on lower end products re: longevity and how well the action handles wear.

 

Non-digital keyboards do require periodic maintenance.

 

-Z-

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I went to Sam Ash today and tried out various keyboards. I was in one of those modes where just about everything felt good (sometimes it's the opposite!)

 

P125 felt pretty smooth, I guess I was expecting it to feel "heavier" based on things I'd read.

 

The new Casios were very light, I can see why some people might not like the texturing.

 

I didn't really like the Roland FP-30 as much, it felt sluggish but I always feel that way about most Roland actions. Probably because I'm a hack pianist that mostly played an old upright growing up :)

 

The smoothest one I tried was a Kawai es8, it had the most oomph to it, and for some reason that surprised me as I thought it was more of a "light" action.

 

Speaking of light, there was a Kronos version I'd never heard of, "light action" I think it was (?) Geez, that was TOO light, it felt like a toy....

 

---

 

Yes, GC has a good used program, you can order from any store. Shipping is (was) pretty cheap and you get a 30 or 45 day period to test drive. If something is wrong, it goes back locally (that's the big deal) and you get shipping back; if you just don't like it for any reason, you may lose the shipping.

 

My local store told me to always order with a hard case after UPS destroyed a keyboard and I brought it in for a return; if you don't need the case, take it back no problem after you get the keyboard. ymmv on that.

 

Prices can vary, sometimes you can get a great deal on there, sometimes not so much. Call the selling store and ask about the condition as well.

 

 

 

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Yes, GC has a good used program, you can order from any store. Shipping is (was) pretty cheap and you get a 30 or 45 day period to test drive. If something is wrong, it goes back locally (that's the big deal) and you get shipping back; if you just don't like it for any reason, you may lose the shipping.

 

My local store told me to always order with a hard case after UPS destroyed a keyboard and I brought it in for a return; if you don't need the case, take it back no problem after you get the keyboard. ymmv on that.

 

Prices can vary, sometimes you can get a great deal on there, sometimes not so much. Call the selling store and ask about the condition as well.

Yeah, until recently GC paid for the shipping of used items to your local store or doorstep. I guess once they no longer had the disadvantage of competing with online stores that didn't charge sales tax, they've gotten tighter with their policies, but still, 45 day returns are sweet. And just the thought of returning and paying for shipping on a large item gives me a serious pause, I'd much rather return locally.

 

What do you mean? You received a keyboard that arrived destroyed? Didn't UPS have to compensate for that? And your saying that buying used gear from them the advice was to have them ship it in a case? You'd need a separate shipment if there's accessories or a box.

 

Good advice on calling the selling store regarding condition.

 

 

 

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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