Music Player Network
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Say goodbye to Windows 7
#3023647 01/14/20 09:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 678
Likes: 4
Gold Member
OP Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 678
Likes: 4


1975 Hammond A105/122RV, Yamaha N2 AvantGrand, Hohner D6 Clavinet, 1978 Minimoog Model D, Korg Mono/Poly, Yamaha CS-60, Arturia KeyLab mkII
Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Doc Tonewheel #3023725 01/15/20 02:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 433
Likes: 8
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 433
Likes: 8
Who needs support as long as it's working?

I still use several computers running Windows XP. I only upgraded to Windows 7 because there are some programs that I want to be able to update occasionally, those makers have dropped support for versions that don't run under a 64-bit operating system. That's not a Microsoft problem. wink

Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Mike Rivers #3023746 01/15/20 04:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 29
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 29
If you never connect your machine to the Internet, then you're mostly covered. Just wrote about this in Recording Magazine.

Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Mike Rivers #3023852 01/15/20 10:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 4
A
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
A
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
Who needs support as long as it's working?

I still use several computers running Windows XP. I only upgraded to Windows 7 because there are some programs that I want to be able to update occasionally, those makers have dropped support for versions that don't run under a 64-bit operating system. That's not a Microsoft problem. wink



Same here !

smile

A.C.

Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
DevonB #3023857 01/15/20 11:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 4
A
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
A
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by DevonB
If you never connect your machine to the Internet, then you're mostly covered. Just wrote about this in Recording Magazine.



Until I finished building my Win7 Pro machine,- which was about 1-2 month ago,- I connected to the internet w/ Win XP still,- no issues, except the machine itself was long in the teeth and became too slow.

All the security fuss is about using Microsoft Windows exclusively incl. THEIR antivirus, firewall, internet explorer and email client.
I don´t use all this and have 3rd party software for security functionality,- even don´t use MS Office.

Use the hardware firewall inside your router and the Win firewall in addition, use Mozilla Thunderbird and Firefox, Opera browser for VPN and something like free Avast (which improved a lot) for antivirus and live w/ that.
Install Malwarebytes and do occasional scans ...
It´s all not the very best when you look at the single items,- but all together is save enough and way better than the Windows stuff.

Which websites do we visit mostly ?
In my case,- MPN, KVR, PlanetZ, Sonic Core, NI, RSN Studios, RSN Talk, Presonus, Reaper, Mastering VAST, Kurz Setlist, oldschool DAW, VI-Ctrl, DuckDuckGo, LEO, Wiki etc....
You get the picture ...
I´m pretty sure I can enter most of these websites w/o any security crap at all,- even doing downloads ...

Scaremongering doesn´t help,- it´s part of MS business model.
Installing Win10 means you now need a MS account or you lose your OS once your computer becomes unusable p.ex. by hardware failure.
That´s what they want.
Have in mind w/ Win10 your licence will be written into the BIOS (chip) of THAT computer ...
Win10 is designed for the cloud,- all the IP technology goes in that direction, enabling total control over the user and at the end of the day, you´ll find yourself w/ just only a terminal and everything stored "in the cloud" where all belongs to the owner of the infrastructure.
At least,- that´s their target.

And it is because there was already more progress in that direction on the Apple side of the globe !


smile

A.C.

Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Al Coda #3023933 01/16/20 12:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 29
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by Al Coda
[quote=DevonB]All the security fuss is about using Microsoft Windows exclusively incl. THEIR antivirus, firewall, internet explorer and email client.
I don´t use all this and have 3rd party software for security functionality,- even don´t use MS Office.


No, it's more than that. It is OS file updates as well. Latest patch for Win10 was a big deal just from 2-3 days ago. It updated the crypt.dll file within the OS. Bad actors could spoof that they were a legit vendor and install their own software like they were the 'legit' company. Just one of many examples that is nothing to do with their antivirus, firewall, IE, or email client.

Quote
Use the hardware firewall inside your router and the Win firewall in addition, use Mozilla Thunderbird and Firefox, Opera browser for VPN and something like free Avast (which improved a lot) for antivirus and live w/ that.
Install Malwarebytes and do occasional scans ...
It´s all not the very best when you look at the single items,- but all together is save enough and way better than the Windows stuff.


Great start and that's everything I do today. That doesn't necessarily mean you're 100% protected.

Quote
Which websites do we visit mostly ?
In my case,- MPN, KVR, PlanetZ, Sonic Core, NI, RSN Studios, RSN Talk, Presonus, Reaper, Mastering VAST, Kurz Setlist, oldschool DAW, VI-Ctrl, DuckDuckGo, LEO, Wiki etc....
You get the picture ...
I´m pretty sure I can enter most of these websites w/o any security crap at all,- even doing downloads ...


Seriously, I've gotten viruses on Facebook. One of the main problems comes from banner ads. If the site is using a banner provider who isn't 100% strict on their ads, that's where they come from. Not the site directly. I've also had my virus scanner and firewall block other legit sites for the same reason.Haven't had it happen in a few years though.

Quote
Scaremongering doesn´t help,- it´s part of MS business model.
Installing Win10 means you now need a MS account or you lose your OS once your computer becomes unusable p.ex. by hardware failure.
That´s what they want.
Have in mind w/ Win10 your licence will be written into the BIOS (chip) of THAT computer ...
Win10 is designed for the cloud,- all the IP technology goes in that direction, enabling total control over the user and at the end of the day, you´ll find yourself w/ just only a terminal and everything stored "in the cloud" where all belongs to the owner of the infrastructure.
At least,- that´s their target.

And it is because there was already more progress in that direction on the Apple side of the globe !


It's not scare mongering, it's reality. All of your above steps do help, but over time, the protections become weaker with known issues uncovered in security within the OS files themselves. If they never get patched, then the problem is forever.

None of my Win10 installs have an MS account attached to them. It's not necessary and a step that's easy to skip on install. Remove network connectivity during install and it'll allow you to skip. I've done it multiple times now.

I will not lose my MS license by failure. All of my licenses are from Win7 upgrades. I still have my license key for all of them. I just enter it again.

Writing into the BIOS chip is for OEM vendors like Dell or HP. Not for when you build your own and have a retail copy of the product. Read up on it here if you like - https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...ios/5cb48c90-0cc2-4c69-bf28-68f7c74f9618

And we all have choices. Go use Ubuntu. Then you'll get security updates and never have to worry about becoming a part of the Borg. wink

Devon

Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Doc Tonewheel #3023950 01/16/20 02:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 4
A
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
A
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 4
I don´t wonder you got virus from facebook.
I´m not @ facebook and all the other crap social media,- I don´t need.
Banners are almost totaly blocked here when I do searches in the web using DuckDuckGo and NOT Google.
Avast helps w/ additional functionality.

I don´t need 100% protection,- it´s a myth anyway.
100% protection never existed and won´t exist in future.
It all depends on what you do in the web.

I´m old fart and pay cash where I can,- no online banking, no e-commerce, I´m a ultra-rare-ebayer.
I don´t even use a Smartphone or Smart-TV or Smart-Whatever consumer electronic crap.
The more you need, the more risky it is !
There´s not much to steal from my computers.
I even collect my passwords in my head and don´t store on my computer in a passwordmanager or such.

My main problem is Win10 wants new hardware and I´m not willing buying new computers or even building ´em every few years.

I see me building a new Win10 office machine near future,- just only for surfin´ & downloads,- but my DAWs keep WinXP Pro SP3 32Bit and Win7 Pro 64Bit.
They serve me well and are installed already,- no need to update/upgrade plugins and apps and when I launch NI Native Access, my Reason Studio and Presonus account or such on software manufacturer´s website, I doubt I´ll catch a virus.

And,- a virus isn´t that dramatic when you have kind of WinPE boot media at hand w/ pre-installed internet connection, browser and antivirus.
I catched 2 virusses within 19 years and removed within an hour and before the machine booted again from it´s own drive.
Realtime guard for malware and virusses always works when your antivirus still supports the old OS and delivers updates,- so after you got the warning, insert the save boot media, re-boot from there and remove the s##t once you investigated for the virus´ or trojan´s name and a "how to remove".
And when it comes very hard, wipe your system drive, format and take your Acronis, Paragon, Minitool or whatever backupped system drive image and re-install in minutes.

It always worked ... but that´s only me,- and possibly you know all this anyway.

I don´t say it doesn´t make sense upgrading OS,- I only say it is not urgently necessary to do it in a hurry.
There are millions and millions on the planet not having the funds moving forward w/ IP technology like the manufacturers want.
It´s nonsense assuming they all get virusses and s##t.
Hackers don´t hack me because theres´s nothing to hack and when it happend it came randomly or by accident.

B.t.w.,- this morning (jan 16) I received 3 MS updates !

I remember, when they officially discontinued WinXP, they continued offering updates nonetheless and for a long time more.
We´ll see ...
I had a look @Winfuture to get more info.
Normally, when all is definitely over, they publish a final collection of all the MS updates,- the last time they did for WinXP SP3.
Nothing to find for Win7 Pro SP1 up to now and for me that´s an indicator it might not be the very end.

A.C.

Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Doc Tonewheel #3024253 01/17/20 09:57 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,108
Likes: 12
T
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
T
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,108
Likes: 12
I took my XP machine off the internet because it got hit with one too many malware drive-by-downloads.

My WIN2K still occasionally connects to the internet because I edit/upload my webpages from there, but it sits behind BlackIce firewall which doesn't work for XP or higher. I no longer surf from that machine.

My main internet machines are my OSX computers. I jumped ship because WIN7 and higher required a complete replacement of every peripheral, and I was not impressed with XP.

Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
The Real MC #3024281 01/18/20 01:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 4
A
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
A
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by The Real MC
I took my XP machine off the internet because it got hit with one too many malware drive-by-downloads.

My WIN2K still occasionally connects to the internet because I edit/upload my webpages from there, but it sits behind BlackIce firewall which doesn't work for XP or higher. I no longer surf from that machine.

My main internet machines are my OSX computers. I jumped ship because WIN7 and higher required a complete replacement of every peripheral, and I was not impressed with XP.



As I said,- for surfin´ the web and doin´ office stuff, I´ll upgrade to a Win10 machine next future.
But we´re @MPN forums ... MUSIC PLAYER ... and I thought this department here is related to musicians still and even it´s somehwat specialized on computers and related stuff.

The Real MC,- I had and have the impression we´re in the same boat when it comes to "the latest, greatest" in regards of gear,- and computers incl. OS today ARE gear for musicians.
When we use computers for music (production) and occasionally connect to the web because of updating DAW apps or plugins or doin´ a deal w/ a software company we trust,- there´s absolutely NO need to upgrade OS just only because MS discontinues Win7.
That´s a marketing strategy and biz model.

The reason why I disconnected my WinXP machine from the web was because it became too slow.
Win XP SP2 and 3 served me well for many years and I still need a WinXP machine for a few applications,- even floppy drives and floppy drivers,- as long as I own and use hardware samplers from the past and I´m in the process of converting old work for usage in moderrn gear forever.
I also don´t upgrade OS because some software manufacturers want.
They bring "updates/upgrades" for Win10 and their bundles, DAW apps and so on,- but you don´t need because the now "old" versions already offer functionality you never needed as a real keyboardplayer (also composer/arranger) ... most is for the non-players/ 1-finger programmers.
I´m fine w/ the outdated versions of applications, ignoring 80-90% of "features" already there.

smile

A.C.

Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Al Coda #3024339 01/18/20 12:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 29
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by Al Coda
I don´t wonder you got virus from facebook.
I´m not @ facebook and all the other crap social media,- I don´t need.
Banners are almost totaly blocked here when I do searches in the web using DuckDuckGo and NOT Google.
Avast helps w/ additional functionality.

I don´t need 100% protection,- it´s a myth anyway.
100% protection never existed and won´t exist in future.
It all depends on what you do in the web.

I´m old fart and pay cash where I can,- no online banking, no e-commerce, I´m a ultra-rare-ebayer.
I don´t even use a Smartphone or Smart-TV or Smart-Whatever consumer electronic crap.
The more you need, the more risky it is !
There´s not much to steal from my computers.
I even collect my passwords in my head and don´t store on my computer in a passwordmanager or such.


I'm not understanding why you say it's scare mongering when you clearly avoid doing actions that the updates are clearly there to help protect you from the things you intentionally avoid? If you live and operate like that, and you're happy, I won't argue. But to claim it's not necessary is reckless for the rest of the world who do live with technology for 2020, not 2003. At least, you come off like it's unnecessary for everyone else too, when your situation doesn't apply to most of the rest of the online world. Maybe I just misinterpreted what you were initially trying to say? After you explained it, yes, I would tend to agree it's not necessary for your situation. Context helps. wink

Devon

Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Doc Tonewheel #3024432 01/18/20 09:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,755
Likes: 10
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,755
Likes: 10
My home and shop still have one XP computer and three Windows 7 computers. The XP and one Win 7 both run DAW and music related software that has been paid for, and in some cases won't run on later operating systems. My primary music related computer is the Macbook Pro, and iPad/iPhone for sound generation.

The second Win 7 computer also has some older versions of software, like the XP computer. These are occasionally used for remembering things applicable to my computer business clients. The third one is the same make/model, was at a client site, they replaced with newer computer and Windows 10 and asked me to dispose of it. Figured at least it had parts that could be used to repair either of the others. I plan in near future to load it with Mint Linux 19, although I do have a VM on the Mac running Linux, I sometimes need a hardware Linux machine to do things like formatting disks for NAS backup; and also to get more familiar with Linux in general.

These are internally networked, but I do have a business grade hardware firewall for my whole network.

There are also two Win 8.1 computers, each of which is kept for television recording using Windows Media Center. Microsoft no longer supplies program guide, but I can set them to record specific channels at specific times. One is connected to cable, the other to an outdoor antenna. Microsoft supports 8.1 until 2023; but Windows 10 doesn't support WMC, and I don't want to go through the time needed to figure out one of the available freeware DVR software packages, since just about all require integrating multiple software by different people, and aren't really "plug and play."

All computers used regularly for any Internet based activity are Windows 10 or Mac OS High Sierra or Mojave. The one with Mojave has a broken screen, with external monitor (macbook air), and will be formatted and replaced with Catalina for experimentation (after a good solid backup with Mojave).

As mentioned, each person's real need or lack of need for change is dictated by a balance between protection, functionality, and expense; which will vary. In the medical field, computers used as a part of some hardware device for diagnosis or treatment are Federally type accepted, and can't even have later patches put on them without going through the type acceptance process again. I've had to scrounge Ebay to find really old computers that had hardware that would run Windows 3.1 in order to get some of these systems to continue running. You don't toss away a $100K system if there is any way to keep it running, as long as it is still accepted for the purpose.


Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's
HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Jim
Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Doc Tonewheel #3027424 02/03/20 08:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,828
Likes: 69
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,828
Likes: 69
I understand "if it ain't broke don't fix it," but ultimately, I think it's in our best interest if music software companies need to support only one or two operating systems. I would think trying to make sure the latest and greatest works with 32-bit-, 64-bit, Windows 7, 8, 8.1, and 10, as well as providing support for users of those systems, would use up quite a bit of a small company's resources.

Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Anderton #3027454 02/04/20 03:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 4
A
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
A
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Anderton
I understand "if it ain't broke don't fix it," but ultimately, I think it's in our best interest if music software companies need to support only one or two operating systems. I would think trying to make sure the latest and greatest works with 32-bit-, 64-bit, Windows 7, 8, 8.1, and 10, as well as providing support for users of those systems, would use up quite a bit of a small company's resources.


Who really needs the "latest / greatest" ?
All I use runs well on Win 7 ...

Presonus Studio One Pro v4.6
Reason 10.x and 11.1
Reaper 6.03
NI Komplete 12 and all the other s##t.

But I also own and still use SCOPE (5.1 & 7.0) PCI-card and XITE-1 DSP systems and a real (!) small company like Sonic Core is able supporting Win XP still and while running on Win7 - 10, 32- and 64-Bit too.
Means, you CAN install latest SCOPE v7.0 on a Win XP SP3 32Bit machine !!!
Cockos Reaper also supports Win XP 32Bit as well as Win7 - Win10 (32 & 64Bit) and comes w/ the best 32Bit>64Bit bridge out there.

It´s doable and possibly matter of idealism major companies don´t have anymore !

Since my office machine died, I type on the DAW machine ...
All the office applications do work well on the Win7 Pro SP1 machine too,- browsers (Firefox and Opera), PDF reader/creator, OpenOffice, CCleaner, Malwarebytes, Adwareblocker, Antivirus ... whatever ...
Yesterday my Antivirus informed about supporting Win7 still ...
Hardware-firewall is inside the router and in addition to Windows firewall.
I do scans all the time,- no virus, mal- and/or adware found ...

Anyway,- I ordered parts and Win10 Pro for a new office machine build.
But w/ my DAW, I´ll stay w/ Win7 until I might urgently NEED Win10.

I doubt I will because this Win 7 machine is already overkill and I might need some more years investigating all the presets, samples and bells & whistles the DAW installation offers.
I see me putting it off the web and don´t upgrade anymore,- last but not least because there are also all the external hardware devices I own,- and some need old computers ... much older than Win7 !



A.C.

Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Al Coda #3027477 02/04/20 12:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 433
Likes: 8
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 433
Likes: 8
Originally Posted by Al Coda

Who really needs the "latest / greatest" ?
All I use runs well on Win 7 ...

Presonus Studio One Pro v4.6
Reason 10.x and 11.1
Reaper 6.03
NI Komplete 12 and all the other s##t.


I'm absolutely with you. I've not advanced beyond Windows 7, and I have a few computers, including what's still my primary computer for audio work is running XP.

But . . .

Support from Microsoft for the operating system isn't the only concern. The software manufacturers, unless they've gone out of business, are continually updating their programs and dropping support for the old versions. You have to be sure that you have everything stored locally to re-install and update your applications to the current version that you're running. Same for hardware. Eventually you won't be able to find a driver that's compatible with both your audio interface hardware and your operating system unless you can pull it up off a backup that you've saved.

Another thing is that the computer will eventually get to the point where it will fail in a way that you can't repair it. The replacement may not support your old operating system, drivers, or audio hardware. For example, if you have an interface that connects through Firewire, you aren't going to find a new computer with a Firewire port on its motherboard, nor with a PCI slot for a Firewire expansion card. I have four or five Firewire interfaces here that I use on several computers. But I have only one laptop that I can use to connect to them, and that one is a Lenovo from 2004. And if you buy a new USB interface to go with your slotless new computer, it may not have a driver for Windows 7.

You back up all your audio projects in three places don't you? You should do that with your software, including updates and drivers. You can run for 10-15 years with a stable system, but anything beyond that is chancy.

Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Al Coda #3027546 02/04/20 08:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,828
Likes: 69
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,828
Likes: 69
Originally Posted by Al Coda
Who really needs the "latest / greatest" ?


I don't disagree with anything you said, but I was talking about companies needing to make sure their latest/greatest products worked with current operating systems. The bigger the company, the more people getting into music now instead of 10 years ago, the more support that's needed, and the more people using the product, the more the companies have to choose which operating systems they will and will not support. It's easier in some ways for smaller companies, because they have a smaller user base. (BTW I think it's fantastic that SCOPE still works, it was way ahead of its time.)

As end users, you can freeze a system and run it for as long as things don't die. But if companies don't address people discovering recording for the first time, their business will never grow. Someone deciding to get into recording in 2020 is probably not going to be using a Windows 7 system.

Also, as to who needs "the latest and greatest," apparently it's all the people complaining on DAW #1's forums that it lacks features of DAW #2 smile But more seriously, the latest and greatest often includes bug and compatibility fixes that people find helpful. For example, Cakewalk by BandLab is way more stable than SONAR, which it replaced. However it runs only with a 64-bit operating system. Is it worth updating to a 64-bit operating for the increased stability? That's a decision up to the individual. The decision for the company is whether, when giving away a free program, they can support both 32-bit and 64-bit operating systems.

On the other hand I find it really distasteful that companies go out their way to obsolete things, like that recent flap with Sonos, products with non-replaceable batteries, arbitrary obsolescence cutoff dates when there's no technical reason to do so, and the like.

My Windows machine was first built in the Vista era. So I know about holding on to what you have! But my initial point remains - companies have to make decisions about what they're going to support. If their stats show only 1% of their users are running XP on a 32-bit system, the company is not going to do much to accommodate those users.

Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Anderton #3027604 02/05/20 02:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 4
A
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
A
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Anderton
Originally Posted by Al Coda
Who really needs the "latest / greatest" ?


I don't disagree with anything you said, but I was talking about companies needing to make sure their latest/greatest products worked with current operating systems. The bigger the company, the more people getting into music now instead of 10 years ago, the more support that's needed, and the more people using the product, the more the companies have to choose which operating systems they will and will not support. It's easier in some ways for smaller companies, because they have a smaller user base.

(...)

As end users, you can freeze a system and run it for as long as things don't die. But if companies don't address people discovering recording for the first time, their business will never grow. Someone deciding to get into recording in 2020 is probably not going to be using a Windows 7 system.


Well, the latter I did autumn 2019 !
I did because Intel Z97 chipset and the I7 4790K processor work so good for DAW and together w/ Win7 Pro SP1 offers excellent compatibility w/ a real time system like S|C SCOPE/XITE.
means,- I don´t use old Creamware SCOPE PCI card on a old WinXP machine only ...
Instead I use SCOPE 7 w/ PCIe card connecting XITE-1 on a relatively modern machine which offers more than enough power for my needs.

But I also were able using RME RayDat or AiO w/ that machine ...

Originally Posted by Anderton

Also, as to who needs "the latest and greatest," apparently it's all the people complaining on DAW #1's forums that it lacks features of DAW #2 smile But more seriously, the latest and greatest often includes bug and compatibility fixes that people find helpful. For example, Cakewalk by BandLab is way more stable than SONAR, which it replaced. However it runs only with a 64-bit operating system. Is it worth updating to a 64-bit operating for the increased stability? That's a decision up to the individual. The decision for the company is whether, when giving away a free program, they can support both 32-bit and 64-bit operating systems.

On the other hand I find it really distasteful that companies go out their way to obsolete things, like that recent flap with Sonos, products with non-replaceable batteries, arbitrary obsolescence cutoff dates when there's no technical reason to do so, and the like.

My Windows machine was first built in the Vista era. So I know about holding on to what you have! But my initial point remains - companies have to make decisions about what they're going to support. If their stats show only 1% of their users are running XP on a 32-bit system, the company is not going to do much to accommodate those users.


From the manufacturer´s business pespective,- I agree on all the above.
But I´m a user and prefer using gear longer than the industry wants.
Not all the software updates and upgrades make things better,- often "upgrades" make things more worst because of non-musician´s "wrong" marketing decisions (I put that in brackets because it´s subjective).
And yes, I Cockos´ (Reaper) business model and hate Steinberg´s as also Waves´,- just because they force me upgrading when THEY want,- and when I don´t do early enough, I lose the software because there´s no way to upgrade anymore !
That happened to me w/ Cubase SX3 as well as w/ Waves Renaissance SE bundle.
IMO the user decides for upgrades,- hardware and/or software,- not the manufacturer.
In both cases that was a steal and I´ll never buy any product from these companies anymore.

I´m also not interested in cloud based stuff, plugin subscriptions or rental and such ...

Win10 is for security w/ focus on cloud, but not urgenty neccessary for musicians, composers, arrangers or sound designers,- and 64Bit don´t has any advantage for an audio signal vs. 32Bit.
64Bit is only necessary for the gigabyte sample libraries needing large amounts of RAM.
And because Win7 64Bit exists,- I don´t see the need to "Say Goodbye to Win 7" ( that´s the topic !) for a musician.


Originally Posted by Anderton

(BTW I think it's fantastic that SCOPE still works, it was way ahead of its time.)


I hope it´s o.k. when I put that line to the end of this post ...

Yes, it´s fantastic because the actual S|C hardware sounds even better than the old Creamware PCI cards.
SCOPE v7 drivers are for Win10 and there came more XITE-optimized and some new devices in addition.

Version 7.1 is in the works to fix the few sample/wavetable- and time-based device´s issues w/ 64Bit systems.

It´s a killer toolbox still !

A.C.

Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Doc Tonewheel #3028137 02/09/20 01:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 606
Likes: 29
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 606
Likes: 29
No matter what platform you're talking about, there will always be people who come up with highly legitimate use cases for staying locked into a particular machine state while the rest of the world moves forward. Al, it seems to me that with the hardware you're using and the care you take for your particular studio system, you've got a really reliable setup that hopefully won't go away any time soon. As we've seen, there are people here who still remember upgrading to Win7 only reluctantly because their XP systems were doing just fine (hi Devon and Mike!).

The same problem exists in macOS, but with slightly different priorities and skills required. A sensible Mac user runs on the trailing edge, with an OS that's at least one step behind the current one, and learns to understand how modern trends in hardware will interact with OS development. Just as one example, I know that my 2012 MacBook Pro, 2014 Macbook Air, and 2014 Mac mini all run fine on Mojave, and I don't plan to take them to Catalina at all, ever, because of legacy 32-bit code that I'd rather not lose. But that also means that I have to accept the limitations going forward. My 2011 iMac runs Sierra and will never be updated, but it only does things that are OK on Sierra, and fortunately Apple continues to patch older OS versions for security issues for many years after they go obsolete. But eventually I will have to buy a Mac that is optimized for Catalina and beyond.

Time passes and the leading edge is always on the move. Someone coming in for the first time, or getting deeper into the tech after a promising start, might not (actually, almost certainly WILL not) have the kind of background, expertise, or preinstalled legacy code base that a longtime user like you would have.

Starting out on any version of Windows older than 10 is like expecting a new 16-year-old driver to buy a 60-year-old car that will run fantastically - once you get the right parts and learn to do your own shop work! - rather than buying a new car that has its share of modern problems but that you can at least drive away from the dealership. There are kids who are born and raised into families that love working on cars, but most of them either come to that level of training later in life or don't see a need to learn it at all.

So: you do you, and that's great, but be aware that the skill set and background you bring to the table are very different than what most people have, so you can't really expect everyone to be able to take your approach.

mike


Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) grin
Janitor and Hall Monitor, Dr. Mike's Studio Workshop

clicky!: more about me ~ my schwag ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job
Re: Say goodbye to Windows 7
Doc Tonewheel #3028142 02/09/20 02:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,933
Likes: 1
H
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
H
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,933
Likes: 1
Well I’ve moved forward w/ Windows 10 but I have an ASRock Server board, DDR3, i7 4790k and Windows 7, all brand new in the box.
Ever since 8.1 they adopted a RAM snapshot that makes boot-ups faster, but loads up tons of crap I can only disable temporarily.
With 7 you can redesign your OS and it stays that way, no hidden folders with nagware, no scanning of your drives out of nowhere.

Been using 10 on another i7 4790k for a year.
Great performer and the RAM snapshots are actually useful now.
But years w/o s crash on 7, so it stays brand new just in case I want to avoid upgrading a couple years from now.


Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Unisphere Mic

Moderated by  Dr Mike Metlay 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4