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Power conditioning - Noise suppression
#3027780 02/06/20 03:24 AM
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Nevermind, I bought a Furman P-8 Pro C.

I liked the 9 outlets with 3 spaced for wall warts.
Should improve things.




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Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
KuruPrionz #3027844 02/06/20 06:33 PM
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Definitely interested in your experience; a power conditioner is a purchase I've been considering for awhile, especially given my penchant for 40-year-old electromechanical keyboards. These days, I record my Wurli at home instead of at my treated studio space at the office because it runs so much noisier at my work studio. Might have something to do with sharing power with the undergraduate biology labs...


Samuel B. Lupowitz
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Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
SamuelBLupowitz #3027851 02/06/20 07:35 PM
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I'll keep you posted Samuel!!
Was just talking to a friend who is having the same problems up here.

We had some outages so maybe the repairs have caused a problem.
His drummer is an electrical contractor and had newly found hum and noise at his home. He checked and redid his ground for the wiring with no results.

I've also noted that Furman has 6 output power strips that are only about $35-40 online. It seems reasonable to plug one or two of those into my central unit.
Eventually I'll get there. Cheers, Kuru


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Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
KuruPrionz #3027990 02/07/20 06:20 PM
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I not only have a pair of Furman AR-15 Series II power conditioners, I also had separate individually grounded quad outlets installed in my studio. Three out of four walls. Helped a lot.

dB


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Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
KuruPrionz #3027993 02/07/20 06:58 PM
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Good stuff David!

Mine is expected to arrive next Thursday.
It is just enough inputs for my studio gear.
Will be keeping an eye out for a 6 space rack case, then everything can reside in that box except the computer and monitors.


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Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
KuruPrionz #3028551 02/11/20 09:43 PM
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The best thing you can do for your studio's power is to have a qualified electrician put in a dedicated circuit on your home's breaker box and only use the plugs attached to that circuit. If possible, use as few wall sockets as possible, and run everything to a good quality power conditioner and then to the wall. Remember, what you're trying to do is avoid ground loops and making power cable runs into antennas; running everything like tree branches from a single "root" will help avoid a lot of this.

Be aware that multiple paths to ground always cause problems, some larger than others. Adding a computer with its own connections to the outside world will lead to issues that are usually soluble, if not always easily.

A lot of people make a big deal about "balanced power" systems. I have never heard a technical explanation that makes sense to me (but what do I know, I'm just a PhD in nuclear physics), and I have never seen ABX testing proof of its efficacy anywhere. There's a lot of "I installed one and oh boy everything sounds better" out there, but no PROOF. Bah.

A UPS is nice if you're worried about power outages humping your computer, but keep in mind that they are often horrific noise sources. It's not always feasible to put your computer in another room, but if you can, you should... electrical noise, fan noise, noise noise.

Oh, and one more thing: any power conditioner that claims to protect against lightning is automatically suspect. If you get a lightning strike on your house or anywhere nearby, no protector under $1000 is going to do jack shit.

mike


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Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
KuruPrionz #3028598 02/12/20 06:54 AM
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SurgeX.
Takes out dimmer packs, MAC noise, anything a busy large stage throws at it.
A Studio should be built from the ground up, literally.


Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Unisphere Mic
Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
Dr Mike Metlay #3028611 02/12/20 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Mike Metlay

A lot of people make a big deal about "balanced power" systems. I have never heard a technical explanation that makes sense to me (but what do I know, I'm just a PhD in nuclear physics), and I have never seen ABX testing proof of its efficacy anywhere. There's a lot of "I installed one and oh boy everything sounds better" out there, but no PROOF. Bah.


Balanced power works just like balanced audio connections. Noise introduced on power leads that are fed from a balanced source are canceled at a differential input (like a power transformer), preventing EMI from getting into a piece of gear through the power line. It helps with a certain problem, but other than that when spending that much money on a power system, you're probably using good wiring (and $1,000 power cords wink ) there's nothing it can do to "lift the veil" or make the bass more solid.


Quote
Oh, and one more thing: any power conditioner that claims to protect against lightning is automatically suspect. If you get a lightning strike on your house or anywhere nearby, no protector under $1000 is going to do jack shit.


In most places, lightning strikes on a house or somewhere close enough to cause a big surge on the power line are fairly rare. Given that it may be difficult to prove that a damaging power surge was actually caused by lightning, advertising the "insurance" guarantee is probably a good marketing bet.

Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
hardware #3028640 02/12/20 05:41 PM
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Thanks everybody, I appreciate the participation and information very much!!!!

Originally Posted by hardware
SurgeX.
Takes out dimmer packs, MAC noise, anything a busy large stage throws at it.
A Studio should be built from the ground up, literally.


I am looking at the SurgeX line now, if the Furman doesn't solve the problem I may go that route - Thanks!!!

Oh and, in 1979 the Teac 144 Portastudio came out. Everything changed, profoundly.
In 1983 some guy named Bruce Springsteen released an album titled Nebraska, it went platinum (over 1,000,000 copies sold). Nebraska was recorded on a Portastudio, primarily in hotel rooms out on tour.
Studios built from the ground up are not common around these parts, people like me putting a humble studio in their condo/apartment/garage and/or going mobile are very common.

At it's most compact, I have a Tascam DR40 that runs on 3 AAA batteries so there is zero problem with power. The built-in mics are really quite decent and I can plug in 2 mics of my choice into (although I am skeptical of the phantom power). It can record 24 bit at 96khz. One could easily record all their tracks on that, literally anywhere, and transfer them to a DAW for final mixdown. My threads are intended for those of us who have limited budgets but want to be createve and record music. We are many. Our purchases keep the overall cost of AV gear lower for ALL consumers, power in numbers. Cheers. Kuru


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Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
KuruPrionz #3028648 02/12/20 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Thanks everybody, I appreciate the participation and information very much!!!!

Originally Posted by hardware
SurgeX.
Takes out dimmer packs, MAC noise, anything a busy large stage throws at it.
A Studio should be built from the ground up, literally.


I am looking at the SurgeX line now, if the Furman doesn't solve the problem I may go that route - Thanks!!!

Oh and, in 1979 the Teac 144 Portastudio came out. Everything changed, profoundly.
In 1983 some guy named Bruce Springsteen released an album titled Nebraska, it went platinum (over 1,000,000 copies sold). Nebraska was recorded on a Portastudio, primarily in hotel rooms out on tour.
Studios built from the ground up are not common around these parts, people like me putting a humble studio in their condo/apartment/garage and/or going mobile are very common.

At it's most compact, I have a Tascam DR40 that runs on 3 AAA batteries so there is zero problem with power. The built-in mics are really quite decent and I can plug in 2 mics of my choice into (although I am skeptical of the phantom power). It can record 24 bit at 96khz. One could easily record all their tracks on that, literally anywhere, and transfer them to a DAW for final mixdown. My threads are intended for those of us who have limited budgets but want to be createve and record music. We are many. Our purchases keep the overall cost of AV gear lower for ALL consumers, power in numbers. Cheers. Kuru

This is all true, and laudable... but for those who do want to get the most out of working in a dedicated room, these tips can help avoid problems down the road. A small investment (and you might be surprised at how little it costs for a bonded and insured electrician to put in an extra breaker and line to your studio room) can have big dividends. It doesn't all have to be world-class pricey to help you out. So keep on doing what you do here, Kuru! But allow a little wiggle room for folks with a few more dollars to spend? wink

mike


Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) grin
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Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
Dr Mike Metlay #3028653 02/12/20 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Mike Metlay
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Thanks everybody, I appreciate the participation and information very much!!!!

Originally Posted by hardware
SurgeX.
Takes out dimmer packs, MAC noise, anything a busy large stage throws at it.
A Studio should be built from the ground up, literally.


I am looking at the SurgeX line now, if the Furman doesn't solve the problem I may go that route - Thanks!!!

Oh and, in 1979 the Teac 144 Portastudio came out. Everything changed, profoundly.
In 1983 some guy named Bruce Springsteen released an album titled Nebraska, it went platinum (over 1,000,000 copies sold). Nebraska was recorded on a Portastudio, primarily in hotel rooms out on tour.
Studios built from the ground up are not common around these parts, people like me putting a humble studio in their condo/apartment/garage and/or going mobile are very common.

At it's most compact, I have a Tascam DR40 that runs on 3 AAA batteries so there is zero problem with power. The built-in mics are really quite decent and I can plug in 2 mics of my choice into (although I am skeptical of the phantom power). It can record 24 bit at 96khz. One could easily record all their tracks on that, literally anywhere, and transfer them to a DAW for final mixdown. My threads are intended for those of us who have limited budgets but want to be createve and record music. We are many. Our purchases keep the overall cost of AV gear lower for ALL consumers, power in numbers. Cheers. Kuru

This is all true, and laudable... but for those who do want to get the most out of working in a dedicated room, these tips can help avoid problems down the road. A small investment (and you might be surprised at how little it costs for a bonded and insured electrician to put in an extra breaker and line to your studio room) can have big dividends. It doesn't all have to be world-class pricey to help you out. So keep on doing what you do here, Kuru! But allow a little wiggle room for folks with a few more dollars to spend? wink

mike



I hope I didn't come off as too defensive/offensive. As I posted in the "What studio gear do you lust after but can't justify" thread, I would spend the money in a heartbeat if I had it.
I think it's great when people strive to achieve the highest levels, my aspirations are tempered by my budget but my creativity doesn't care about money.
Just yesterday I spotted a DW Fearn dual channel tube preamp in Wenatchee craigslist for well under $4k. I lusted for it mightily but that somehow did not generate the needed funds, sad...

In my situation I am going to get a circuit tester and am considering moving my studio desk across the room to a non shared wall. The primary consideration there would be running the cable for internet but those are cheap in long lengths so I should be able to come up with something practical.

FWIW, I ALWAYS disconnect my computer from the internet connection when using my studio gear. That is super easy to do. Cheers, Kuru


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
KuruPrionz #3028680 02/12/20 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Originally Posted by Dr Mike Metlay
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
[...] in 1979 the Teac 144 Portastudio came out. Everything changed, profoundly.
In 1983 some guy named Bruce Springsteen released an album titled Nebraska, it went platinum (over 1,000,000 copies sold). Nebraska was recorded on a Portastudio, primarily in hotel rooms out on tour.
Studios built from the ground up are not common around these parts, people like me putting a humble studio in their condo/apartment/garage and/or going mobile are very common.

At it's most compact, I have a Tascam DR40 that runs on 3 AAA batteries so there is zero problem with power. The built-in mics are really quite decent and I can plug in 2 mics of my choice into (although I am skeptical of the phantom power). It can record 24 bit at 96khz. One could easily record all their tracks on that, literally anywhere, and transfer them to a DAW for final mixdown. My threads are intended for those of us who have limited budgets but want to be createve and record music. We are many. Our purchases keep the overall cost of AV gear lower for ALL consumers, power in numbers. Cheers. Kuru

This is all true, and laudable... but for those who do want to get the most out of working in a dedicated room, these tips can help avoid problems down the road. A small investment (and you might be surprised at how little it costs for a bonded and insured electrician to put in an extra breaker and line to your studio room) can have big dividends. It doesn't all have to be world-class pricey to help you out. So keep on doing what you do here, Kuru! But allow a little wiggle room for folks with a few more dollars to spend? wink


I hope I didn't come off as too defensive/offensive. As I posted in the "What studio gear do you lust after but can't justify" thread, I would spend the money in a heartbeat if I had it.
I think it's great when people strive to achieve the highest levels, my aspirations are tempered by my budget but my creativity doesn't care about money.

Not at all, and I hope I didn't come off as too overprotective. It's my new baby forum. grin
Quote
FWIW, I ALWAYS disconnect my computer from the internet connection when using my studio gear. That is super easy to do. Cheers, Kuru

And works brilliantly! The cleanest connection is no connection at all. Zen.
(with a tip of the hat to Paul J. Stamler, who originally coined that proverb with reference to capacitors)


Last edited by Dr Mike Metlay; 02/12/20 08:32 PM.

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clicky!: more about me ~ my schwag ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job
Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
SamuelBLupowitz #3029908 02/20/20 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by samuelblupowitz
Definitely interested in your experience; a power conditioner is a purchase I've been considering for awhile, especially given my penchant for 40-year-old electromechanical keyboards. These days, I record my Wurli at home instead of at my treated studio space at the office because it runs so much noisier at my work studio. Might have something to do with sharing power with the undergraduate biology labs...


Checking back in Samuel, I put the mic that set me off on this journey in the same spot, used the same signal chain as before and it was MUCH quieter.
I need to dress my cables, lots of extra length that is not needed. That will be an "as I go" project. There aren't that many but I intend to shorten every single one and will attempt to both shorten and re-route all power cables to keep them as far from audio cables as possible.

I've got a post with photos one up from the bottom on the first page of this thread - http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3026827/lets-see-your-studios#Post3026827

OK, the Furman arrived. I found an 8 SKB rack on craigslist for $50 and got a 2 space rack shelf (better leverage so sturdier) on ebay.
I mounted everything up. At first I wanted to put the Furman at the bottom but I decided it would be best at the top of the rack.
I left two open spaces, have nothing to put in them. They make a good headphone shelf, handy for the 2 sets of cans I use.

The Furman P-8 PRO C is rated at 20 amps, an absurd level of overkill for what I have plugged into it. I like that, as with many things it is "buy nice or buy twice" and it wasn't so much $$$ that I question my sanity.
When the cables are dressed I will be able to go mobile so having power conditioning becomes important since we never know what the power will be like at other places but it is safe to assume there could be shortcomings.

You may not need something quite so heavy duty but I can't imagine a quality unit not improving things. There were features I liked on this model - 8 sockets in back with 3 spaced for wall warts and one socket in the front so I can plug easily plug an amp or instrument into that plug and be running off the same clean power.


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
KuruPrionz #3030458 02/25/20 04:57 PM
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Thanks for the followup, Kuru! I have a Furman PL-8 that is now coming up on 30 years old and still works like a charm.


Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) grin
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clicky!: more about me ~ my schwag ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job
Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
Dr Mike Metlay #3030484 02/25/20 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Mike Metlay
Thanks for the followup, Kuru! I have a Furman PL-8 that is now coming up on 30 years old and still works like a charm.


That is comforting, Dr Mike.
At 64, I doubt I have 30 years of recording left in me but I guess I'll find out eventually... Cheers, Kuru


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Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
Dr Mike Metlay #3030748 02/27/20 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Mike Metlay
Thanks for the followup, Kuru! I have a Furman PL-8 that is now coming up on 30 years old and still works like a charm.


Yeah,- I still use 2 Furman PL-Plus E (from early 90s IIRC), protecting 2 30HU racks full of gear from that era.
Real workhorses !
(E = europaen version)

A.C.

Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
KuruPrionz #3030826 02/28/20 03:42 AM
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I also use Furman PL-8+’s for home.
Stage gets SurgeX. It’s only 20 years old though.

Ankyu


Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Unisphere Mic
Re: Power conditioning - Noise suppression
KuruPrionz #3030891 02/28/20 05:26 PM
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Last night I hosted a "showcase" night at a club a bit north of here. That involves setting up the stage with mics and DIs, running sound, playing the first set, getting the other artists up and running quickly and tearing down after the show.

They've got an in house PA system, in wall snake to the board, sound guy booth near the back of the club with racks of gear, the whole 9 yards.

At the top of each rack is a Furman power conditioner. I didn't catch the model, it doesn't matter. Probably different products now.

Anyway, those have been working for a long time. One of them turns on a bank of older amplifiers so there is some serious current flowing.

They work. All the feedback above indicates I made a good choice. This has been a useful thread, thanks everybody!!!! Kuru


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