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Would you let your kid major in music performance?


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I've been a tax guy for 22 years at a CPA firm. Average income people don't need a CPA. One of the interesting things about doing taxes at this level is I know everything about hundreds of clients finances. Income, investments, rental properties, small businesses. But the biggie is retirement planning. Lots of our clients are retiring now. How does a corporate retirement plan with a cash value of 3 million sound? Or even a 401K with a paltry 600K in it? You don't get that in music of any kind because you don't get to work for a large employer who matches or partially matches your 401K contributions. Yes, yes there are a few exceptions. A very few. Plus all the other bene's they have.

 

The drummer I worked with when I was in the Air Force in Japan was pretty good. When we all separated from the service I lost touch with the guys but as the years went on we managed to get back in touch. He was from Maryland but went to college in SoCal on the GI Bill, got a degree in aerospace engineering and went to work for Boeing. He completely gave up drumming when he got out of the AF. He showed up at a gig 10 years ago and I found out about his current situation. I went on the road with a Vegas show group and when that died I went into car sales for the flexibility. I was still focused on music as my number one thing. Selling cars on smaller dealerships still gave me the flexibility to do gigs that I could not have in a corporate environment. He retired from Boeing 15 years ago with 5 rental properties worth about 2 million plus the income from them and a $75,000 a year pension. I'm still working now but part time as a tax consultant. No pension other than Social Security but I do have some savings and own a very modest house.

 

I followed my musical dream and don't regret it (well, most of the time). I had tons of different opportunities for a full time career job including some based on my Air Force experience but wanted to follow the music. Why did I decide to get into taxes which is the nerdiest most uncool thing that as a musician I could ever imagine? I was 53 with absolutely squat going on. I sold two cars to a CPA and his wife and he offered me a job. The income I was making from companies with no retirement bene's put me on track for a Social Security benefit of less than a thousand a month with no savings, no pension, no house. You can't make 50K a year, rent a decent apartment in LA and save any money. I knew I had to do something or I was going to wind up homeless or living in a shelter.

 

Lots of those folks right now do have SS checks at that level but and there is no hope at all of actually living on that little income without lots of welfare from somewhere, government, family, wherever. My parents didn't have much so no inheritance was coming. I took the job at a CPA firm basically as a data entry assistant. I am pretty smart, I was confident I would pick it up fast and somehow move up and make more. The boss could see that and as a former professor in accounting at Pepperdine encouraged me to study to be an Enrolled Agent which is a federally licensed tax pro. At age 60 I did that and starting making "real money" for the first time in my life. My peak was over 100K a year for about 7 years. I should have gotten my EA the first year I started there. That got me out of that lifetime musical hole I dug myself into and I'm still making decent part time money now. I help people get out of trouble with the IRS and they really appreciate it. I enjoy that and like having something meaningful to do at age 74. Would I rather not need the money at all and literally just do it for fun and some mad money? Sure.

 

I'm comfortable enough and can still spend money on my musical toys plus my SS check is over double what it would have been. But wow, when I think back on it I could have become an EA 25 years ago and where would that have left me now? And CPA's do much better than an EA does usually. The biggest compliment I got from my boss was I would have made a good CPA but it really was too late for that. That's a big deal requiring college degrees plus sitting for a exam that makes the EA stuff look like nothing. What really gets me is now much I enjoy the business side of things. Doing taxes is a people skills thing. It helps to be outgoing, have a story to tell, helping people with their financial problems on the tax side. I never would have believed that 30 or 40 years ago. I was into performing, looking cool and having fun.

 

People have to find their own path and I'm living proof it's never too late for a serious career change. I'm not making any recommendations of what you should or shouldn't do regarding your children's education. Just take my little story for what it's worth if anything.

 

Bob

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These trends/ideas come in cycles....

I really feel the economic downturn of 2008 and subsequent years filled with feelings of insecurity stifled risk taking and artistic endeavors for many families. The skyrocketing cost of education hasn"t helped. Most kids leave college now with their hand tied behind their back from loans because despite saving from birth, parents can"t cover the cost in full anymore so it gets kicked down the road. We"re creating a pretty gloomy world when studying the things that make life worth living is only for the kids with wealthy benefactors.

 

That said, a performance major should get certified along the way to teach even if they hope not to use it.

And, as any computer programmer will tell you - you can never stop learning. Do the BM in music and see how things are looking, if necessary get a second degree, Masters in something else that would benefit a musician - like business, communications, etc. Heck, they all have Masters degrees now. The Bachelors has become the HS Diploma.

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People that are performance majors or conservatory based are usually noticed early on before age 10. I work at a local University and one of our company's colleges is Eastman, I see kind of what happens as my fiance works there part time. I am on the medical side of our business but these kids are on a totally different track and the pressure is immense. Imagine being really good and playing Rachmaninoff and coming to a place where there are 5 other kids as good or better? Most of these kids probably know they aren't going to make much money. Bob's story above is something I have heard before and has good points but I think the mindset and track these kids is a little different. I work here in Public Health Sciences and work with med students. It's a long haul for them but the difference is they will probably make money when they graduate or are done with residency but by that time they are close to 40. I wouldn't want some of the responsibility as the government is coming down on the health care industry. My daughter is on track for med school and I couldn't imagine doing it myself.

 

I think for musicians the blessing is also the curse in that you have something inside that doesn't translate well the way society is set up. What I mean is that you can't really make money doing what you want. I had an opportunity to go to four years of school and all of that but I couldn't sit in class plus the music wouldn't wait. I went and tried the military route and wasted times in bands, I have learned a lot musically and back to taking lessons as of 2016. Things are generally good and musically I can write my own ticket most of the time. Thank god I got into this job by accident doing smoking cessation in 9 counties in the state. I sit on meetings with doctors and health department meetings. I am able to travel a bit which is good for picking up gear also. I feel for some kids the path isn't straight forward but I understand it's good to have a vocational skill or at least a 4 year degree.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

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If your desire is to alienate your children down the road, make sure to stifle their creativeness.

 

 

My parents would have died if I'd announced my desire in life was to be a professional musician, athlete, actor... To them (well, really my mom mainly), those weren't "real" jobs. They were just "playing". Kind of like running away to join the circus. So I went to college to study engineering (one of their approved "real" professions) but struggled and was disinterested and never finished. I'm 55 now so that was a long time ago...

 

Ironically, my younger brother had a classmate who was a fantastic classical pianist and after high school went to New York to play and eventually to France. Before making this post, I Googled his name and found his website.... He's an elite player even today and has been billed as one of the outstanding pianists of his generation. So there IS the possibility one can do it... But I gotta think its a real long shot, sort of like the odds of growing up to be a basketball star or Oscar-winning actor.

 

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Lou my mom was the same with the whole "real jobs" mindset. Maybe it was generational but they didn't understand it. You really can't if you aren't in our shoes.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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People that are performance majors or conservatory based are usually noticed early on before age 10... Imagine being really good and playing Rachmaninoff and coming to a place where there are 5 other kids as good or better?

 

I was a music performance major. I was also a paid professional at age 12. When I moved to Nashville someone said to me, "Everybody here was the best player in their town." And even then many go home after a couple of months. The good news is that there are more paths to success in the music business than in professional sports. The bad news is that you still need to be really, really good to feed yourself.

 

When I realized that I wasn't going to complete my undergrad degree, I sort of carved my own path and took the classes that I wanted to take, rather than what I had to take. That's how I ended up taking harpsichord lessons and spending Saturday afternoons in the electronic music lab. I dropped out after my sophomore year and hit the road.

 

I don't regret going back to school and getting my degree. But in 40+ years of professional music no one ever asked for a transcript.

9 Moog things, 3 Roland things, 2 Hammond things and a computer with stuff on it

 

 

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If I could go back in time, I would meet my Dad, just before a key moment in my life.

 

The moment was when I told him I wanted to major in music.

 

(BTW, he agreed).

 

But my words of wisdom would have been:

 

Say Yes to the Music BA, but grow some balls, be a Parent, and say, 'But only if you learn a trade. Accounting, Engineering, Business, (not English), Plumbing, Electrician, etc. Because you need to be able to make choices in the future and a Dad"s job is to prepare you."

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I wouldn't provide advice to anyone on this subject, but I can relay my own experience as others here have in the hope it might help. I was a music major, and like a couple of others have mentioned, now work in technology. When it was time for me to go to college, I could not think of anything else I wanted to learn about more than music. I wasn't ready to think about career path, even though everyone was telling me how important it was. I always liked computers and tech, but I didn't have a passion for it at that age. I was fortunate my parents allowed me to major in music, and were supportive (although my father had a musical history of his own). I think that if I had majored in computer science or something, there's a chance I wouldn't have stuck with it. I do think I was lucky that I did have a knack for it, and could get into the field when the time was right. I'm going to guess that if your child is a genuinely smart kid, they will figure out how to be successful at something. Even if it's not music in the long haul. I still really value my college time, and I'm guessing she will as well.

 

Now all that being said, I still chuckle at the memory of the graffiti over the toilet paper in one of the men's bathrooms in the college's music building: "Music performance degrees, take one".

"If you can't dazzle them with dexterity, baffle them with bullshit."
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The killer is ... when I was in college I created no debt. I stopped applying for financial aid my Sophomore year because my parents were in Florida and I was in Illinois and getting their tax documents were a pain in the rear. I didn"t need it. I paid all my college cost through gigging. There is no way in Hell you can do that today. The costs have increased at ridiculous rate of progression compared to the economic components. One book costs more than my entire semester book bill and these damn vultures don"t even give you a damn book. Just a key code for online textbook access. Technology should make this shit cheaper.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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My 16 year old daughter who is a junior in high school has been saying she wants to be a violin performance major.

 

:like: You are super-fortunate to have a daughter who know what she want to do. People and their careers are more richly diverse than ever before. All the best to your daughter.

 

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I can only repeat the advice someone gave me when I was in high school.

 

"Find what you love the most in life. Then, find what you love second most in life and make that your career."

 

For me, I love creating and playing music. I also love science and engineering, but not as much as I love playing music. So, I have degrees in Physics and EE and am founder of a tech company. I look forward to my evening piano practice, monthly piano performance groups, band jam sessions, playing piano and organ in church, and music creating time on weekends. I'm glad I did not turn my favorite thing into a job. However, I would never tell someone to not pursue their passion in life. Life should be an adventure, especially when you are young and figuring it out.

 

I really wish there were better paying opportunities for more musicians, artists, and creators. It is so important to have these things on our planet. Respect to anyone who pursues mastering their craft!!

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The worst thing is to do a job you will dislike.

 

The prior post on being a Tax Guy at a CPA totally fills me with dread, I would have committed suicide being stuck in a desk job for years on end.

 

I retired a few years ago with 25 different jobs under my belt, I now live comfortably doing what I want, when I want

 

Financial benefits mean zilch if you are unhappy doing what you are doing, you only do that kind of job when you have kids to support.

 

Until they get to that point in their lives let your kids follow their dream.

 

But do in-still in them a Plan B.

 

Life is not a rehearsal, it is a one shot deal, live it to the full.

Col

 

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I have a niece I raised in college currently studying art, actually animation. I didn't tell my children what to major in. But I let them know by researching, costs, job prospects etc. They are old enough to make their own decisions. What ever they choose I support them. My daughter was heartbroken by the fact she made more as a bartender than for working at a TV station. Her degree is in Broadcast Journalism. Over the last 10 or so years she has been a flight attendant, taught middle school English in South Korea and currently teaches online English to customers in China and coaches martial arts at an MMA gym in Thailand.

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His comment to me are related to the thread. Interesting what he was told at Berklee about how many graduate, how many actually make it in the biz. Scary when you consider the cost of Berklee these days and per an article I read a couple years ago comparing music school costs Berklee isn't the most expensive some of the universities are higher.

 

[video:youtube]

 

As for Berklee itself I hear a lot a stories. My guitar teacher for many years before recently switching to piano is a Berklee professor. My piano teacher was a Berklee teacher for over a decade. One of the local old guys like me recent went to Berklee as a retirement gift to himself and lasted about two years, but left and he was not pleased with Berklee, but is doing well playing and teaching in Mexico.

 

FWIW: I'm very interested in music education because I went to two music schools and worked for almost a decade at the old Grove School of Music, some called the "Berklee of the West". So have seen and talked to a lot of students, teachers, and how the schools work.

 

 

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For years I lived next door to a Berklee graduate. He has a business painting office buildings and homes. He taught for awhile but teaching didn't work out. I would hear him playing jazz trumpet to tracks from my deck, for the first couple years I thought he just played his stereo loud!

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The prior post on being a Tax Guy at a CPA totally fills me with dread, I would have committed suicide being stuck in a desk job for years

 

Perhaps the dread of being penniless outweighs the dread of working a job you dislike?

 

Good to see you seem to have figured out life and didn't commit suicide.

 

I would venture that only a superb few have 100% of life figured out, and that most of us have a few important things figured out... with one of the important things being taking care of your family. I definitely wish that I could be wealthy and happy and doing a job that I love. Two out of three would be good?

Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands

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Great discussion. I was never that serious about ANYTHING when I was in high school, but was a good enough player to get an unsolicited offer of a scholarship to accompany the jazz/pop vocal group at a local college. I went down the road to the big state U, drank a lot of beer for a year, took all of my premed requirements in two instead of three years and kept music as a hobby. Pretty much this advice as stated earlier: "Find what you love the most in life. Then, find what you love second most in life and make that your career." Music for me made a lot more sense as a hobby than a living.

 

I don't know where my mom got the idea, but she freaked out my future mother-in-law the first time our parents met when she said casually that she feared I might take time off from school because the guys I played with were pretty certain we could make it big. LOL.

 

I suppose if you absolutely can't imagine doing anything but play music or act or make art, you should at least give it a shot because you'll probably spend the rest of your life wishing you had. A acquaintance's daughter was always the star in vocal music and drama in high school, got a performance degree and is trying to make it in NYC. I don't know what her Plan B is or if she has one.

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Here"s an article from Forbes called ' Ten Reasons to Let Your Kid Major in Music'

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lizryan/2017/06/04/ten-reasons-to-let-your-kid-major-in-music/#612506001062

 

 

I talked with a musician colleague of mine who got a jazz performance degree from Univ of North Texas. He toured awhile in the Tejano circuit and when It came time to settle down and start a family, he was able to get an alternative education certificate to teach K-12 music in several capacities: elementary general music, mariachi, modern band ( rock) and music technology. He seems pretty happy and financially stable, stills plays out too. Sure, he"d probably rather be a full time jazzer but how many can do that for a living?

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When I graduated high school, I knew one thing for certain: I was NOT going to be a music teacher! Even though it seemed pre-ordained to everyone else: came from a very musical family, studied piano from the age of 5, played multiple instruments well, sang in the chorus and show choir, played in local bands etc. etc. etc., I turned my back on music - actually, I FLED music, and an acceptance w/small scholarship to Penn State and instead joined the Marine Corps.

While there, I found myself gravitating to the base chapel on Sundays to play piano for services, toting a guitar literally all over the world, seeking out other musicians among my fellow Marines... got out, went to college to major in Electrical Engineering... but found myself in the Music building a LOT... after a dismal semester I had to face facts: I should be a Music Major.

When I started the Spring semester, I felt like I was "getting away" with something: Music Theory, Music History, Piano Pedagogy, Instrumental Methods, Piano Lessons, Saxophone Lessons, Symphonic Band, Jazz Band, University Singers... I mean... does the school know that I'm only taking Music classes? This is HEAVEN!

Of course, I was a Music Ed. Major, which is a lot like being a Performance Major but you have to take pedagogy classes, plus a lot of other "teacher classes" like Ed Law, Human Grown & Development, the American School, Psy101, etc. etc. etc. The Performance Majors had longer lessons than the Ed Majors, too.

 

That was over 30 years ago and I'm deliriously happy with my choice. I know plenty of graduates - Music Ed, Music Perf, other majors - who aren't doing anything related to their degrees; but I also know lots of other folks who have had career changes. That's Life.

Someone commented that you don't need a certificate to say you can play, and that's true: you don't. But you DO need the valuable instruction, experience, practice, and relationships that "certificate" represents. You don't go to college for a diploma: you go to college to learn.

 

It sounds as though your daughter is already doing a lot of the "working musician" things in her life, and only wants to do more of that, but with deeper understanding, knowledge, and experience. I say let her do it.

 

CAVEAT: When I was in college I knew a few people who majored in Music because "I just adored my Chorus teacher and want to be just like her" or "I didn't know what else to major in, and I always enjoyed Band, so...?" Those are the WRONG reasons to major in Music, and especially Music Ed. They're recipes for failure - being a Music Major is HARD WORK, just like any other major.

 

One doesn't choose a career in music. It chooses you. And it won't be denied (or you'll be miserable). Many of us make a living working day jobs, but we look forward to playing; at home, at a gig, in church...

Muzikteechur is Lonnie, in Kittery, Maine.

 

HS music teacher: Concert Band, Marching Band, Jazz Band, Chorus, Music Theory, AP Music Theory, History of Rock, Musical Theatre, Piano, Guitar, Drama.

 

 

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I don"t know too many music as only income players who aren"t diversified - as in playing/performing, teaching either for a school or privately (most do both eventually), side work recording or playing on others records, scoring, transcribing, audio editing, etc. But it depends on what you need to live on. If you have wife and kids you get creative fast or you look for a different job.

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My parents would have died if I'd announced my desire in life was to be a professional musician, athlete, actor... To them (well, really my mom mainly), those weren't "real" jobs.

 

The "real job" was a constant pressure for me from my parents. They just didn't understand it. I think they thought I would grow out of this phase and get more serious about a "real career". That being said, they did support me, including a change of colleges after several years at one school. The pressure however was always there. The "backup plan" and "Plan B" was a constant mantra and I know it held me back from becoming a better musician.

 

After college, while all of my bandmates started pursuing their musical dreams - most moving from Ohio to Nashville I still felt horribly pressured to find a "real job". Luckily I eventually moved from playing in bands and working in music stores to getting a job in the music industry and I've been working on this side of the business ever since.

 

Fast forward to today. My son is about to finish school at an acting conservatory in NYC. My wife and I fully 110% support him. Thoughts of a "Plan B" would simply cause him to lose focus and he would not be achieving the goals he is already reaching. We know it will be hard but so does he. His expectations are realistic but his determination is getting him far.

 

No Plan B at our house. Let them pursue their dreams.

 

 

 

-Mike Martin

 

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The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for.

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What an incredible thread. Buncha smart people here :-)

 

I don't think you can really dictate what your kids are going to do. You can try, but I don't think it ever ends well.

 

What you can do is build a lifetime's worth of communication. Like life itself, that's never a straight line. MontunoMan, all the best to you and your family.

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"Find what you love second most in life and make that your career." Music for me made a lot more sense as a hobby than a living.
Many of us make a living working day jobs, but we look forward to playing; at home, at a gig, in church...
Preach, brother Lonnie. I would go further and say that the urge to play cannot be resisted, but it can coexist with a day job.

 

Former singer in a band I worked with for many years, dreamed of working in musical theatre. She ended up in a good job in a management consultancy, gigged solo and with us regularly, and is now married with three kids and zero money worries. Sometimes not following your dreams is the right choice.

 

I've never wanted to be a professional muso, but I'm going to be the best damn hobbyist I can be.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

 

 

 

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... Sometimes not following your dreams is the right choice.

 

'Sometimes'...that's the keyword right there but isn't that true for just about any career? There are thousands of failed doctors, engineers, architects...etc...etc... in Los Angeles alone.

 

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.

 

Fast forward to today. My son is about to finish school at an acting conservatory in NYC. My wife and I fully 110% support him. Thoughts of a "Plan B" would simply cause him to lose focus and he would not be achieving the goals he is already reaching. We know it will be hard but so does he. His expectations are realistic but his determination is getting him far.

 

No Plan B at our house. Let them pursue their dreams.

 

 

 

Mike, that's a very beautiful thing that you are so supportive of your son. Yes, a "Pan B," in theory is practical, but does it really have to forced on the kid? If their dream doesn't work as they imagined it, maybe a "Plan B" will just naturally evolve.

I can't help but wonder how our lives (artistic types in general) would have turned out if our parents and society would not have forced us to have a back up plan, something to fall back on..... Would we all be homeless? Would we be happier?

 

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