Would you let your kid major in music performance?

[montunoman]

Greetings,

 

My 16 year old daughter who is a junior in high school has been saying she wants to be a violin performance major. She is doing doing real well with her music, playing in the top regional high school honors orchestra, she gigs playing as a soloist for weddings and other events, plays in a pro mariachi, has a very good ear, can sing well , plays a bit of piano and guitar, and is good with music theory. I think she could do well as music performance major but as we all know, getting a job in music performance after graduating is pretty tough!

 

I am being supportive and my wife is being "reluctantly " supportive (telling her to minor or double major in an area outside of music.) As for now she says she has absolutely no interest in being a K-12 teacher of any kind. She says she'd like to teach privately any age group or at the college level, so I suppose a doctorate degree is in her future. But her dream is to play in a major orchestra and chamber group.

 

Anyways, my daughter and my wife and I have been getting an ear full from the rest of the family, My brother in law, who considers himself the family patriarch tells me that I'm crazy to even let my daughter consider studying music after high school. He didn't let his son study music even though he's a talented classical guitarist and differently has the passion. He was forced to study medicine, ended up dropping out of college, and now he gigs, gives guitar lessons, and works a retail job. Yeah, maybe he'd be dong the same thing now if he had studied music, but at least he'd have a degree. At least that's the way I see it.

 

Besides her musical talent, my girl is a good student, likes science, writing, good with technology, and is fully bilingual. Here's to hoping she can find her path and we can finance her studies loan free!

 

 

 

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[EscapeRocks]

If your desire is to alienate your children down the road, make sure to stifle their creativeness.

 

Let her follow her passion, and be supportive of it. Success isn't always measured in $$$ after school.

[MAJUSCULE]

Yes.

 

I understand post-secondary education is a bit of a different animal in the States, I just did my degree a couple years ago. I probably just wouldn't have gone to school at all if my parents hadn't been supportive of it. Your point about your nephew is a good one.

 

Of course, make sure your daughter is really passionate and understands the realities of it. It also doesn't stop her from going on to another career or graduate studies. Several of my college classmates went on to studies in medicine, law, engineering, business, education (she may yet change her mind), etc.

[Dave Bryce]

If your desire is to alienate your children down the road, make sure to stifle their creativeness.

 

Let her follow her passion, and be supportive of it. Success isn't always measured in $$$ after school.

Agreed.

 

dB

[SamuelBLupowitz]

As part of the demographic that's most loaded down with student debt right now (I have paid off my student loans, something I was able to do because of, yes, hard work, but also a not-insignificant amount of good luck and family support), I have mixed feelings about the higher-ed "industry" in the United States (I'm assuming you're talking about college in the US, though that may not be the case). I'm a strong believer in education, and I feel that no education is wasted. But I made different choices in my life, and took fewer risks after graduating, because I wasn't starting from zero, I was starting out with loans to pay every month. I'm sure you'll have to have conversations about that regardless of your daughter's chosen major.

 

That said, it sounds like your daughter has a much clearer vision of her path, and more focused commitment to her craft, than I had when I was 16. Life is short; men make plans and God laughs, as they say. I wish the best to your daughter and your family, and I hope she can follow whatever path helps her reach her fullest potential!

[Morrissey]

The US populace is generally confused these days as to whether the purpose of higher education should be (1) to obtain marketable skills to secure employment, or (2) to provide holistic post-secondary education and formation of good humans. Majoring in music performance doesn't seem like a good choice to fulfill purpose 1, but neither are a whole host of traditional non-STEM liberal arts majors. A quality undergraduate education featuring a major in music performance certainly could fulfill purpose 2.

[Stokely]

An interesting, and relevant topic

 

My kid is about to go to college and right now that is his pick.

 

Short of refusing to help him pay for anything--ie, the nuclear option--I don't see that I have any say in the matter. "Letting" him nothing, it's up to him. All I can do is offer advice.

 

If you love doing something, it's really hard to argue against it. I probably make more money than most if not all music teachers and many performers...do I love my job? I can tell you right now that I dislike my current supervisor so much that coming to work sucks ass. That of course can happen in any industry

 

I can tell him about how I ignored my own dad's advice to get into computers; I went with an English degree because I was good at English. 10 years later, I learned computer programming on my own and I'm still in the industry. So whether that is a good story to tell my kid--yes and no! Young people don't see things like their parents, news at 11....

 

I strongly dislike the current trend to push kids into their careers earlier and earlier (talking even elementary school). We should be teaching logic, and how to communicate, and how to get along with others, etc...skills that transcend your choice of vocation. One of my biggest mistakes was taking CLEP tests so that I skipped almost my whole first year of college. Sure, it's good to save (a lot) of money--but it forced me to pick a degree before I was ready.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

I strongly dislike the current trend to push kids into their careers earlier and earlier (talking even elementary school). We should be teaching logic, and how to communicate, and how to get along with others, etc...skills that transcend your choice of vocation.

This a thousand times! Thoughtful, critical, creative people don't make good drones, but they do ultimately make everything better for everyone.

 

[Bobadohshe]

I will quote one of my favorites, the controversial at times Dave Ramsey. He might say something like this::

 

1) As long as you and her are smart about it financially, then yes. That means you can either cashflow school entirely, or you have enough saved to pay for her entire education. If not, she needs to be working and maybe do 1-2 years of Community college first. She also needs to apply for a ton of scholarships and hopefully get a couple.

 

2) Take a father / daughter weekend with her and book some time to talk to REAL violinists and gigging musicians and ask about their journeys and what it took / what it takes. Talk to folks at your local orchestra. Maybe book a lesson with a serious heavy from a MAJOR orchestra within a hundred miles or so (not sure where you live) and talk just as much about career advice as a frank assessment of her playing.

 

3) Consider the possibility of a minor in something like business or marketing. Or even a MAJOR in one of those fields.

 

4) Whatever you do, don't saddle your or her with a mountain of debt to fund what could be a long shot dream. And don't fall in love with an 'expensive/out of state school' just to have 'the college experience' or because the campus is pretty.

 

[retrokeys]

I'm not sure any sort of "certification" in performance is of much value. In the end you can either play or not. You either pass the audition or you don't. My advice would be to continue performing but seek certification in an allied field, music history, musicology or even something a bit further afield, like audio production (hey, worked for me ) The worst it can do is help to inform the performance. I do agree with the prevailing sentiment here. It is harmful and essentially useless to try and stifle creativity. As they say, you don't choose music. It chooses you. Good luck to this young lady.

 

 

[Jazz+]

If they are obsessed with practicing all the time, then yes, they are qualified.

They must be a highly motivated self starter. If they have any lazy tendencies regarding practicing and working hard all the time, then no.

They do need to exhibit these tendencies before age 12, imo. and certainly before finishing high school. Otherwise all the dreams in the world mean nothing. It's all about the desire to practice because of a fierce motivation to be great.

They can always fall back on teaching or some other career. But they will regret it all their life if they don't try their hardest to train as a professional at an opportune age.

[Song80s]

I don't agree with 'its all or nothing ' with college education and/or career planning.

 

Thats like putting all your chips on 1 # of the roulette wheel.

 

Have your daughter carry 2 majors. Music and Science/biology, or music and a practical area of study.

 

Many children are versatile and can handle a combination of creative and analytical , creative and marketing etc etc

 

Creative people can do sensational in the business world.

[Docbop]

I seen a number of videos of people who graduated at music performance majors and say not a good way to go in this day and age. They said it is too limited and too costly for income post graduation. They all seem to say if going to school cover all bases music recording, music arranging and composition, music business, and even some video classes. Today's world you need to be able to handle all things music related, that there just isn't enough work to only be a performer. So say if really want to be a performer might be best to skip school relocate to a good area for work and then invest good teachers. The real value if school is to be immersed in a music environment 24/7, the resources of the school, good teacher to learn from in open office hangs, making contacts and opportunity to play all the time. The actually school curriculum doesn't teach that much it all about the student and how much they go looking for answers from experienced musicians and getting to play a lot.

 

Also be very well prepared before going to music school. Don't waste money going to music school to learn fundamentals, go to music school for filling in holes and polishing your playing. Going into music school as one of the top people in your classes gets you into the good ensembles, get the attention of the really good teacher who can recommend you for work outside of school. So better to delay school study privately, gig, and get yourself to the upper tier you school life will be better and your parent might still have some money left when you leave school.

 

Music school is all about the student not the school.

 

 

[Stokely]

Good advice ^ and it very much applies to any schools that teach the related fields you mentioned (recording etc). I was a recording minor (to go with my English major ?!? jeez) and later taught at a school. The students who got the most out of the program, by far, were those who came in with at least enough knowledge to ask the right questions and perfect missing skills. They were also the students pestering the staff to get on the equipment after hours, or to sit in on labs that were not full. As students, we were responsible for booking our own studio time and it was pretty much around-the-clock...a few people would hang around the wee hours and often nobody would show up to their scheduled sessions. They'd get the key and use the extra time, hey otherwise an expensive ssl console and a big room full of midi gear was sitting there doing nothing! Those programs are so rapid-fire, with so much content coming blam-blam, and relatively small amounts of hands-on time, that someone coming in cold and without that extra motivation just was at a disadvantage.

 

As a teacher I'd get students in the late labs that wanted to leave early to go to parties or whatever and I'd just shake my head. You have a limited time and *someone* is paying that bill, don't waste it. You can still party when you are old (I try at least!)

[Adan]

My parents gave me about $1500/year during college. Not $15K . . . $1500. Enough to cover state school tuition (back then) and books. Told me they were saving their money for my graduate school. Turns out I raised my parents right.

[Michael W]

If your desire is to alienate your children down the road, make sure to stifle their creativeness.

 

Let her follow her passion, and be supportive of it. Success isn't always measured in $$$ after school.

 

 

^^^^^ This.

 

 

 

[p19978]

I'll chime in given I have some experience in this issue.

 

I have twin boys who are freshmen at Univ of Ky and Univ of Cincinnati College of Conservatory of Music, respectively (my son at UK is on a trumpet scholly, and my boy at CCM is on a jazz piano scholly).

 

Both initially wanted a career in music (UK boy wanted to become a HS band director and CCM boy wants to be a piano Prof at the college level).

 

 

 

Over the years, we have had many conversations about careers, income, and all the things you'd like to see your kids take seriously. As the scholly offers came in, one serious debate centered around the ability to "monetize" a music degree.... and my suggestion of always having a "Plan B".

 

 

 

Well, reality set in over Christmas break for UK boy. He decided to start a double major in Economics and Music Education. He evidently looked into the income potential for teachers/band directors, the prices of high end trumpets, guitars, and keyboards (he wants a custom shop Tele and a Nord lol)... and is now thinking of expanding his options.

 

CCM boy is still without a plan B: he seems firmly committed to playing out the string and then seeing what happens upon graduation.

 

 

 

The only advice I can give is to suggest that they think about a plan B... but trying to force it is probably an exercise in futility... although it may be relevant at a later time.

 

Best of luck!

 

 

[The Real MC]

^ I cannot overstate the wisdom of a plan B.

 

Besides the paltry income, almost every major orchestra is located in metropolitan areas with high cost of living.

 

Be prepared to move outside the US if there isn't any job opportunities. The classical arts are much more appreciated in Europe and Asia. During the 2008 mortgage meltdown recession, quite a few really good orchestras folded because they lost their public funding.

 

If your desire is to alienate your children down the road, make sure to stifle their creativeness.

 

Let her follow her passion, and be supportive of it. Success isn't always measured in $$$ after school.

 

Success isn't always measured in $$$, but in reality passion doesn't always pay the bills.

[timwat]

I have some experience on both sides of this (as a student and a father), as well as being pretty close to the topic (I'm a college professor...in business).

 

Unless someone's interested in my anecdotal story or my son's (fine arts grad from SDSU, now has a lucrative career in international event planning for the world's largest tech companies), let me just make 10 suggestions:

 

1) higher education can provide lifelong value, opening doors and opportunities in ways nothing else can

2) there are lots of ways life opens doors that don't require a degree

3) college in the US can be incredibly expensive, and lots of kids are pressured into "name brand" institutions no one can afford

4) community college is one of the best deals on the market

5) spending money on education should be planned with the end in view (including the objective calculation of odds of favorable outcomes)

6) many kids don't have the maturity to plan economically with the end in view (and many adults don't either). Everyone needs to be honest about this.

7) when it comes to spending money, the consequences of good and bad decisions will eventually come knocking round your front door

8) it is a sour thing for any young adult to always ask be asking themselves, "What would have happened if I had just had the courage to try?"

9) Having courage and spending your parents' money are two different things

10) at the end of the day, everyone has the power to choose how they respond to their circumstances. That power comes with the responsibility to not blame others when the consequences of your personal choices aren't what you were hoping for.

 

And yes, I tell my sons and my students all 10 of these things on a regular basis.

 

Tim

[TommyRude]

I would force them to major in music.

 

When that fizzles out, I would force them to become a doctor.

[16251]

The elephant in the room. Would you let your son major in music performance? Would you let your daughter major in music performance? I believe this is important if your son or daughter are not exceptionally talented.

[MathOfInsects]

I will bite my tongue on the mountain of sentences I could pour out on this topic, and only say this: We are not buried with a note around our necks that says we were going to live a life of value but got too busy selling car loans and we'll bring our homework in during the next life. If that is what brings her value, then every dollar she ever makes from it will be multiplied by +-infinity. And if she is coerced into replacing it with something that does not bring her value, every dollar she makes from the replacement will be multiplied by +-0. Each of those options will themselves be multiplied by the legacy and lessons she leaves with her kids.

 

A performance degree will have plenty of value regardless of her eventual career. The work ethic alone will set her above most of her co-applicants for any job she applies for, and the music aspect will be an appealingly well-rounded component that similarly sets her apart. IMO it is a far more pertinent path for any eventual grad school or career she might end on, than most of the more career-specific options people commit to too young.

 

Yup, this was the short version...

[CowboyNQ]

I have two sons, 19 and 16.

 

One is picking his way through a uni degree (Psychology Hons.) part time while working in banking, the other has two years of high school to get through before potentially taking in a degree in marketing, assuming all goes to (his) plan.

 

No-one, least of all me, can tell you how to parent your children. However to share what has worked for my wife and me, we have encouraged our children to make their own choices in this regard, but have provided gentle guidance and counsel along the way. Adolescents by their nature do not have the benefit of lived experience that we, their parents do.

 

Bottom line. If my kids came to me wanting to do a music performance degree, I"d strongly encourage them, but be there to help them navigate the twists and turns along the path.

[Adan]

 

A performance degree will have plenty of value regardless of her eventual career.

 

It's well known that people with music degrees get admitted to med school and law school. It's hugely important to develop writing and critical thinking skills. History and philosophy courses are best for that. Less important to have the minor, more important to have and be able to display the skills.

 

[MathOfInsects]

 

It's well known that people with music degrees get admitted to med school and law school. It's hugely important to develop writing and critical thinking skills. History and philosophy courses are best for that. Less important to have the minor, more important to have and be able to display the skills.

 

Indeed: one of the most successful parent-peers I know went to med school out of conservatory.

[montunoman]

Hey, thanks people, really great advice, and each post rings true, and are things we've discussed with her, especially the" plan B" She doesn't take suggestions from us too well, never has... Luckily she has some excellent mentors from the Dallas Symphony where she 's studies with a full scholarship, which is much appreciated as violin lessons aren't cheap! She also gone to summer musical festivals under scholarship too.

 

Most of teachers from the symphony and her performing arts high school have recommended she checks out the big name conservatoires and universities, which we are doing. but also I tell she needs to seriously consider the way more affordable state schools. We have some trial lesson at some of the state schools here in Texas set up, and in March her school orchestra will be performing at Carnegie Hall ( I'll try to stop barging) So we'll be checking out the big names institutions in NYC. But we hope she stays in Texas.... I guess I'm getting the pre- empty nest syndrome, where did the time go?!?

 

 

 

 

[jazzpiano88]

I think at her age you should be able to get an objective assessment of the likelihood of her attaining a major orchestra gig based on her talent today. If so, I would be totally supportive of a college degree in performance (hopefully at a big-time music school).

 

It sounds like she doesn't want to teach K-12, so a Music BA for that alone is off the table.

 

For smaller-time symphony or private teaching, a Music BA at a smaller or state school could be good investment as it both provides good education for those jobs as well as a general education for other non-musical jobs requiring a Bachelor's that could be a back up if the music jobs don't pay all of the bills. A degree/career in some other primary focus area may not afford her the time to teach or be a member of a symphony.

 

After thinking through the above, I would let her follow her passion.

 

 

[MathOfInsects]

As someone who has really, really tried, several times, over many years, to take the "smarter" path of more financially stable careers, I am here to say that the psychic cost of those lost years is way greater than the paychecks I got. I've had my financial ups and downs with music, but the lowest down has never felt worth the part of me I lose when I try a different road.

[El Lobo]

... playing in the top regional high school honors orchestra, she gigs playing as a soloist for weddings and other events, plays in a pro mariachi, has a very good ear, can sing well ...

Please support her to keep gigging. On the job training (actual performance) is better than school studies.

 

My brother in law, who considers himself the family patriarch tells me that I'm crazy to even let my daughter consider studying music after high school. He didn't let his son study music even though he's a talented classical guitarist and differently has the passion. He was forced to study medicine, ended up dropping out of college, and now he gigs, gives guitar lessons, and works a retail job.

Tell your brother-in-law to stuff it. Look at his own son as an example.

 

[CEB]

I did not have to face such complications. My kids are great players and play and have played in University symphonic concert bands but chose to major in other fields.

 

The baby is a euphoniumist and started out a Music Ed major but decided she wanted to be a physical therapist and changed to an athletic training undergrad major. She discovered her arms were too short to wrap shoulders on football players properly then became double major nursing and psychology. Must be a nursing shortage because she is being recruited by several hospitals. A local hospital is paying her costs but she signed work contract with them after graduation. She work there part time but has a year and a half to go. She ended up on the six year plan. The oldest is a saxophonist and double majored in Physics and Engineering and is a Engineer for Department if Transportation. He had a job offer before graduation.

 

We complain about the cost of flagship gear but keyboard expenses pale in comparison to these horns I bought them as high school graduation presents.