My IEM Revelation Has Begun :)

[nursers]

@nursers - glad to be of help. Here are a few questions to eliminate variables to figure out where the problem is:

 

1. Do the IEMs sound OK if you plug them directly into the headphone jack of your keyboards? If not, try them out on a different device or your phone. Work on getting a better seal with the ear tips.

 

I'll give that a try. Pre gig I tested them on my phone and laptop headphone output and they sounded great.

 

2. Do you use a 1/4 adapter on the IEMs? If so, try a different adapter. Maybe thats the problem.

 

I am - will try a different adapter for sure, good point.

 

3. If youre getting a good sound with the direct connection, make sure youre gain staged correctly with the Key Largo and whats going into your Mackie. What model of Mackie mixer are you using so we can check out the manual? Do the keys sound ok on their own without the FOH feed?

 

Mackie 802 VLZ4 is what I'm using but starting to wonder if I might buy a Radial 2 channel thing to achieve same purpose. I plus the 1/4 adapter into the headphone output of the Mackie via the adapter. I have the Key Largo Monitor L&R go into one of the stereo line channels on the Mackie. As far as do the keys sound ok without the feed - I found it varied i.e. still getting distortion once I turned up to compete with on-stage sound. Which makes me think IEM seal is part of it for sure. Thanks again!

[ajstan]

Take a look at the Rolls PM55P as the headphone mixer. I get stereo keys in from the Key Largo and a mono feed from FOH from the rest of the band.

[Quai34]

Take a look at the Rolls PM55P as the headphone mixer. I get stereo keys in from the Key Largo and a mono feed from FOH from the rest of the band.

 

Ajastan has already told me via pm his set up and after having spent quite a lot on my future set up, it seems to me it's the simplest one...

[nursers]

Ok wonderful will check that out as well - thanks

 

 

[vonnor]

I just read every post in the thread, but am getting mixed opinions on ambient ear-bugs vs isolation. I currently use Shure SE425's (iso) for all my gigs, but want to upgrade to customs and trying to research the differences.

 

With the 425s I have never been able to get the perfect mix in my ears. We play 90% house PA shows where I'm depending on the SE to do my monitor mix. That communication loop is never foolproof, and I end up with an (almost) OK mix at best. Also, more times than I can count, I have to pull one ear-bug to hear the BL call out the next tune "at the line of scrimmage" so to speak. Also I have never been wow'd with how my voice sounds through the 425s, so most of the time I leave that pulled bug hanging.

 

What if anything do I stand to gain with ambients? Do I risk the drums/bass being too loud at my ears? (drummer and bass player do not use in-ears, but guitarist/singers do)

 

Has anybody been in my position and moved from isolation in-ears to ambient? Was it a good experience?

[J. Dan]

You'll get mixed reviews depending on the quality of the mix. If you can manage to get a better mix in your ears, then you can't beat the isolation, IMHO. I think the ambient IEM's are just a bandaid for a non ideal situation.

 

The first band I was in that went all IEM's starting probably 15 years ago did it right. They brought their own monitor rack to every gig. It had a splitter snake that was labeled, a monitor mixer, and all of the wireless IEM transmitters in a rack.

 

FOH sound guy would run everything in stage to the labeled XLR panel in the front of our rack and plug the fan-out from our rack into his stage box. We each controlled our own monitor mix independently of FOH. It was so clear we could talk quietly to one another while the crowd couldn't hear us over room noise.

 

Of course these days, you have the benefit of digital mixers and controlling your mix via iPhone.

[nursers]

I finally got my IEMs working how they should - basically it appears I had a gain staging issue. Now I understand why people like em

[Tom Williams]

The IEMs I bought -- Westone -- come with both isolating and ambient tips in multiple sizes, so you can use them either way.

 

I prefer isolated to ambient in part because I am willing to not hear the whole mix, if it helps me do my part better. I've already found (I think I already shared here) that less drums and "more me" doubles my vocal stamina because I don't feel compelled to yell to figure out if I'm singing on pitch.

 

Reinforcing my bias, I often have to deal with one-ear IEM users who think they're helping the house mix when they sing louder (lead) or softer (backup). Unfortunately, there's about a 100 dB difference between the two levels, and it makes the FOH sound a PITA to mix properly.

 

[vonnor]

Hey @Tom Williams thank you for the tip. I just checked out the Westone EAS series and those look like the best of both worlds.

[J. Dan]

Maybe this should be a different thread, but since tips have been brought up, I'm in the market (not for IEM's, but replacement tips). When I first started out years ago with the E1's (now I believe Shure SE215's?) I used the tips that you roll in your fingers that expand after you put them in...kind of like traditional ear plugs. When I switched to the SE315's (not sure if those are still available( I went with the stock rubber tips that I can just push in and they just get a great seal. Well I've used them so long that I think they are starting to maybe dry rot or something. I could just seek exact replacements, but since we're on the subject, maybe I should investigate all my options?

[RudyS]

Vonner, are you completely depended on the mix you get back?

 

The way I do it is I sub mix my keys and send them to FOH via a DI. The link of the DI goes to a second mixer which also receives the rest of the bands mix. This way my sound and band mix are always independent. I have full control over hearing myself and I don't need a really good mix back to play well. If you hear the drums well, can play just fine. To be honest I think 80% of the times (on the bigger gigs) I get a pretty decent mix back.

 

We always have a fixed setlist, so I don't have the (mis)communication part I guess..

[vonnor]

Vonner, are you completely depended on the mix you get back?..

I run my ears in mono/mix mode on a Shure PSM900 system. The Mon out from my RME Fireface UC goes in one input with my own keys mix and the monitor mix return goes in the other input, so I do have some bit of control. I don't have any keys in my monitor mix, just in the feed from the RME.

 

I do wish our band would keep to a fixed setlist though.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

You'll get mixed reviews depending on the quality of the mix. If you can manage to get a better mix in your ears, then you can't beat the isolation, IMHO.

...which brings me to the question I came back here to ask!

 

My main project, a five-piece rock/soul/singer-songwriter band with four (!) vocalists, is switching over to IEMs. It has saved our rehearsal process, and we're testing it out on a gig this weekend. Our rehearsals have been in a tiny room at the guitarist's house, and despite being a group of sensitive players, we had just hit a wall as far as improving the kind of close vocal harmony work and arrangement detail we've been aspiring to, because it was just turning into a big jumble of sound. The IEMs have fixed that.

 

That said, we're still figuring out how to optimize our in-ear mixes. Our Behringer has six auxes, so everyone is monitoring in mono (ahem, except for that devious keyboard player, who claimed the extra aux so he could monitor his patches in stereo... cough cough...). Despite the increased clarity, there are times when four folks are singing in harmony, and the organ is wailing, and two guitars are... guitaring, when it becomes hard to distinguish what's what. The crunchier rock songs tend to reach that point sooner, but every now and then the combination of instrument and vocal tones on certain songs will reveal itself to be muddier and less distinguished than the previous song or song section.

 

What recommendations do you folks have for optimizing the mix, aside from tweaking song-to-song? I think I need to spend some more time carving out space for everything with EQ (if only some judicious use of high- and low-pass filters), especially the voices, but I want to be careful with compression -- even if our monitoring situation sounds more like listening to a record now, I don't want to rob everyone of their dynamic range so that they just start playing and singing full-out all the time. But I also want to make sure that there's space to hear everything at the loud, all-in moments. Open to suggestions and personal experiences with this!

 

[Stokely]

Not sure I have an answer for how to help with that, but I can tell you what (I think) afflicts my own band.

 

1. people have to play with dynamics; if there are a bunch of harmonies going on, perhaps the other instruments shouldn't be so loud...of course if you are building up in a big crescendo and it's by design, so be it!

 

2. effects...I noticed when I recorded one gig, both me and the guitarist have two much reverb going on at times. He monitors via a wedge and doesn't seem to notice it...but surprise, he has issues with his guitar not "cutting through". effects are a huge culprit in muddying up mixes. I've tried to get him to see this to no avail so far. When we play live rooms, all that reverb isn't helping the customers hear the guitar either. Same goes for vocals, now normally people don't put fx on monitor mix vocals...

 

I don't want to have to tweak song to song, as that's really on each musician to stay consistent with patches and their dynamics. I have my phone handy to adjust things (QSC digital mixer) but I usually don't need it after the first few songs.

 

Stereo - I am also that devious keyboard player who grabbed a dual (stereo) monitor mix! It's awesome. I send my keys to FOH stereo, I get a stereo TRS cable back that goes right into my Behringer p2 beltpack. I'm the only instrument that is stereo, but it helps me hear my keys a lot better, and gets them out of the way of other instruments. Also, I've panned a couple of the mono instruments a bit apart....guitar is10 o'clock, and each vocal is slightly apart from each other near the center. It is great! Only problem is when we don't run sound, if I get to use my IEMs at all I don't expect anything like that, and I've made sure my patches sound fine in mono!

[mate stubb]

The good news is that the IEMs are revealing the nuances of the mix so that you can work on refining it.

 

Individual EQ to give each instrument its own sonic space is very helpful. Don't forget to get the mains as flat in the room as possible as well. I personally think vocals need judicious compression. Also work on people using good mic technique. My frontman continually pulls away from the mic as he glances down at the set list and at his guitar neck. Drives me bonkers. I'd put a headset mic on him if I could get away with it.

 

Cut the instrument reverb out front if you can. Use echo instead where possible. If the guitar player wants to muddy up his monitor mix, so be it. Get rid of his wedge if you can, as all stage monitors bring the mud.

[CEB]

I"ve always liked IEMs as a keyboardist but not as a guitarist. Once I started going stage silent completely via IRs I like them as a guitarist also. Being completely IEM if I sing I"ll use my headset condenser. The countryman doesn"t work with wedges.

[ajstan]

Hey, Samuel - here are a few thoughts. My band always uses house/provided sound or we hire a sound company, so the following may or may not apply to your situation:

 

- I always get stereo for my keys since I run separate stereo outs from my Key Largo to FOH and a Rolls PM55P headphone mixer, which also gets a separate mono feed for the rest of the band. I can adjust the monitor volume of my keys independently from the rest of the mix. It allows for level tweaks (of the keyboards or the overall monitor mix from the main board) with a knob at any time without a phone. I'm not sure what I will use when I start doing vocals too, but the ability to add "more me" independent of the monitor feed from the main board would be great.

 

- I am a big fan of ambient IEMs. In fact, if the monitor mix is problematic I can turn it off. I can still keep my keys at a reasonable level, hear the drums and feel the bass, and get vocal cues from the wedge the guitar player uses (only he and the bass player use wedges, the other four of us use IEMs).

 

- I never found a consistent seal with the silicone and memory foam tips that came with the Westone AM Pro 30s, so I had a set of custom ear tips made. Big improvement in seal, bass and overall sound quality.

 

 

[hardware]

Custom Silicon is the only way.

One size fits all IEMs is a step in the right direction, but 9 out of 10 folks will eventually go all the way with 24 drivers, custom molds, etc.

I use mine for mastering now since I"m mainly mixing ITB out to the DSP Rack.

 

Invest in your ears, you only get one pair.

[DanS]

I just did my first gig with a new IEM setup. Band is quite loud for a 4 piece, so it was switch to IEMs or go deaf.

Set of Westone UM Pro 30s & a Behringer P1. I run a monitor line out from my Key Largo into the P1, and a feed from the FOH into the other P1 input. Tweak the levels, done.

I think I may have turned the overall volume down once or twice during the show.

Sounded great as well, first experience with Westones.

[Devil71]

DanS - That's exactly how I do it, with Shure SE315s instead of the Westones.