My Hope for this Community

[J. Dan]

I've been here kind of a long time and have gone through a lot. I was real successful and busy for a long time and gave lots of advice. I got divorced, backed off, found another way to keep busy - side projects, filling in, then original stuff.

 

Tons of experience on here from gigging, recording, praise, everything. Very wide age range also. It's been a few years but I did a pole and most of us were 40s and 50s (mostly 50s) and lots in 60s and even 70s. Very few teens and twenties, a few more thirties. Occasionally we have these conversations about the state of music or the live scene and all that. As much as I fully respect everybody and all their experience in their 50s, 60s, and 70s, I think if we really want to support music, and keep it alive, we need to be not criticizing, but finding ways to support and mentor the folks in their teens and 20s whether you like the music or not. Our parents didn't like our music.

 

That said, compared to other social media sites, I have to say that this forum has been the most promising in that as soon as one of us curmudgeons yell at the kids to get off our lawn, there are 10 times as many responses posting videos of young musicians who are noteworthy that most of us just weren't exposed to. That's what we should all be doing - seeking young artists to promote. Sad as it is, for many of us, even though we may still be able to hang on to our gigs because of our talent and experience.....we should be using that exposure...those contacts....that knowledge.....to promote the best of the younger generation.

 

Let's just suck up our pride and do the best we can for ourselves, but still make it our mission to carry the torch. What I mean is not only promoting the younger artists, but also instilling the interest in a whole generation of supporting live music. We keep complaining about djs and all that. OK, so if we share a great actual awesome musician on here who is touring, let's, as a community, make it a point to also support live music in each of our communities by networking together and supporting these artists as they travel through our towns.

 

Maybe, humble suggestion.....a sticky of some young artists the community wants to support (not based on any sponsorship, just we like them) to encourage young folks to go see live music in all the towns some of these young artists visit? I mean obviously Snarky Puppy, right? Have to be more. We of course have to be careful to be unbiased but shouldn't we be supporting the generational exchange of interest in live music? How do we do that? I'm not talking about Billy Joel and Elton John....I'm talking about finding upcoming young artists that the youngest of generations may be inspired by and maybe even want to take up music. How many of you like me, even though I've played my whole life, struggle to even get your kids to finish lessons? My daughter quit guitar, quit clarinet (good at both) to pursue dance. My son plays my guitars but doesn't want lessons. Plays my piano but doesn't want lessons. It's a different world. Schools no longer promote music the way they did and even churches if somebody is religious have moved away from music education and choir in favor of musicians who gained their skills elsewhere.

 

My challenge is mostly to the group outside of this forum, but honestly, Mir. Bryce and Mr. Fortner I would challenge you guys as well as Mr. Anderton, Dr. Walker, and all the others......Can we somehow elevate this from just an industry/interest forum, to a way to fascilitate interest and learning - even online lessons and/or resouces maybe? I think we have to move into full recruitment mode to keep music alive, and I think to the benefit of all society. We all know the value of music and all recognize how it seems to be dying/declining. Can we actively do something about it?

[ProfD]

I think we have to move into full recruitment mode to keep music alive, and I think to the benefit of all society. We all know the value of music and all recognize how it seems to be dying/declining. Can we actively do something about it?

Brotha Dan , your suggestion and request are considerate and positive.

 

First, I do not subscribe to the belief that music is declining or dying. The further removed we are from what is hip gives the appearance that music is going downhill. IMO, the older we get the more "good" music appears to be in our rearview.

 

The reality is that the soundtrack of our lives is the music that resonates most with us. We will find kindred spirits who dig the same thing.

 

In both the real and virtual world, I encourage all musicians, from young to old alike to be Musicallly Open Minded (MOM). Not to dig or play everything but to understand that there's a whole lot of music old and new waiting to be mined and/or discovered.

 

In my travels, I hear young people who can blaze (play) everything from Giant Steps to Frankenstein. They aren't waiting for old musicians to school them. But, they're willing to listen and absorb tips and pointers.

 

Music is alive and well. Younger people are doing their thing musically. Whenever they stumble upon KC, I like to think we're here to add to their musical toolbox of knowledge and wisdom.

 

[KuruPrionz]

Great post. I agree this would be a great place for younger people to hang out.

 

I am sad to hear you speak of your sense of music "dying" in your area.

Music is alive and well here in little Bellingham. I am not disheartened, far from it.

 

Our drummer's daughter was first chair in the Bellingham High School Chamber Orchestra and I would go with her parents to support the kids at the many performances they hold every school year. The recitals usually have a Jazz performance, a Classical piece or two and the Chorus singing some songs. VERY talented kids and an exceptional staff. Daughter has moved on to college, I need to get back into going to the high school performances.

 

The Uni has lots of recitals and some concerts as well. Access is more difficult, there is no parking for a considerable distance. I don't go to the Uni much but it is happening there.

 

Friday Night I went to a fund raiser for Ferndale High School Chorus, and we raised enough to pay for their trip to perform in Idaho. There was performance after performance, mostly vocals but some instruments. 4 minutes each for an hour and half more or less. One teacher helped out on piano, the rest were high school students.

 

We had an open mic first Tuesday of the month for a year and a half and since alcohol was not served there were quite a few youngsters trying out the troubadour thing. Many of them are also songwriters.

I see lots of younger people at the other open mics too, quite a few talented performers. It's fun to watch them improve.

 

One of Life's purposes for me is to make the world a better place one guitar at a time. I've given a few away and sold others for cost (cheap) to get them in the hands of younger people. I've given lessons, more of a "Try this, it's fun" thing than formal European style music lessons. I would recommmend you try that approach with your son, just show him something fun and cool and make it quick and easy. If you keep it light before you know it he will be asking you questions.

 

We have to teach how they want to learn. Some want formal training, some want to find their own path. I know, I intentionally rejected formal training and ended up learned enough to be functional over time. I still have mixed feelings about the tempered scale, for whatever reason instruments tuned in fifths like a mandolin make me grit my teeth. So, I scalloped my fretboard and play what sounds good to me. I'm busy and turn down opportunities so it seems to be working. Point being that others may not hear music as it is traditionally taught by the descendents of Europeans.

 

Why on Earth we don't have drum circles and singing/chanting/dancing as an option for kids I'll never understand. I'm friends with an Elder of the Lummi Tribe and everybody feels free to express in those ways, it is an important part of the culture. So the kids don't think twice about singing, dancing etc. Everybody does it.

 

We have to stop seperating Music, Art and Life, they are too deeply connected. Cheers, Kuru

 

 

[Doc Tonewheel]

Since I am still taking piano lessons, this fall my teacher said a lot of the parents wanted a recital. I had just broken my wrist (a long and different story), but I said I was in. I hadn"t met or heard any of her other students except the 2 boys who have a lesson before me, but I am happy to report that her students ranged from 6 to 80 years old (I was actually in the middle!) and the 2 best players were 13 and 26 years old who did really nice renditions of Beethoven"s Tempest and Claire de Lune. It was truly heart warming to see so many people of different ages brought together by the love of playing. Thankfully, there are still a good number of young ones to pick up the torch and not just in classical piano. Go check out a School of Rock near you. There are some scary talented kids out there. Thank God!!!

[Stokely]

This forum has been very helpful to me personally, and I'd like to think that maybe at some point I've helped someone else out Even if it's being the first one to ask the dumb question, I am not shy!

 

The hilarious part is that I've found my own posts a couple times via google, and not noticed it was me--"hey, that guy has the same problem I have! Let's see if it got solved!" Kind of inception-like, forum style.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

As one of the younger active members (though I did recently cross from "teens and twenties" into "thirties"), I really appreciate your thoughts and your sentiment. As a mostly-original-music performer who is now hovering between the crowd of weekend warriors and pros who had been active in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, and the current college kids who pour into the bar ten minutes before my set is over so that they can crank the house music while we pack up, I welcome any opportunity to build musical bridges between generations and locations. For my part, I'll look for opportunities to share more new music I come across (not just that I'm involved in), and investigate more of what is shared here.

 

This forum has been a helpful and very welcoming resource for me, and something I am very happy to have outside the oppressive confines of the big social networking sites. This feels a lot more like what the internet was meant to be for me. I feel like the internet could be doing more for musicians, but much like social media, business interests often cut off a truly open environment. In this forum, I see an opportunity to dodge that trend a little more.

[lightbg]

Music is doing just fine in the younger generations. Even though I retired 2 years ago as a music teacher I still keep close tabs on what the current status is, and it"s great. I taught in an urban district, and the budget wasn"t the best, but there were 73 music teachers in that district when I hired on 23 years ago - now they"re up to 77. ONE DISTRICT. Plus, additional programs like Little Kids Rock and Quaver are turning kids on through non traditional means.

 

On a personal note my You Tube stats took a decent jump recently due to my B3X vids. I checked my stats page and looked up demographics. Most of my views were in the 60+ age group, but 2nd place was 35-40. One comment seems to sum up this thread nicely. It came from a 19 year old who thanked me for displaying my technique on squabbling. He now fully understood it and feels confident he can add it to his arsenal of keyboard tricks. I replied by thanking him for carrying on the tradition of Hammond organ performance, and was glad that the B-3 experience wouldn"t wind up being a preset on a rompler in the future.

 

We are O.K.

 

Jake

[stillearning]

...It was truly heart warming to see so many people of different ages brought together by the love of playing. Thankfully, there are still a good number of young ones to pick up the torch and not just in classical piano. Go check out a School of Rock near you. There are some scary talented kids out there. Thank God!!!

 

This! I teach keys at two nearby Schools of Rock part time in retirement. Most of my students are fantastic! They just did a Funky Soul show at a local venue to a packed house, closing with an incredible performance of Herbie Hancock"s Chameleon! See if there"s a SoR near you and check it out, or better yet, if you have the time and inclination, pay it forward and mentor the next generation. At the very least, go see one of their shows!

 

[Jazzmammal]

Great thread Dan. I've been the one who would jump on some posters here who would make comments about DJ's and bedroom producers not being musicians. I've posted many vids completely refuting this. It's very disrespectful not only to our own children but all the other young people so say things like this modern stuff is crap, it's not real music and all that rot. We don't have to like it but we need to at least respect it and not have the same bad negative attitude about it that many of our parents had about Elvis, the Stones and all the other rockers from the 60's and 70's. This goes for jazz too. There was a huge leap from classic straight ahead jazz to the post bop era of Herbie and Chick on to the modern funk jazz, rock jazz and smooth jazz of Marcus Miller, Pat Metheny and many others. There are a whole lot of classic jazzers with their heads stuffed with concrete too about that including my best friend the sax player who I won't name here...We've had many discussions about that and it's like politics. Forget it just let it go, ya know?

 

Bob

[SamuelBLupowitz]

There was a huge leap from classic straight ahead jazz to the post bop era of Herbie and Chick on to the modern funk jazz, rock jazz and smooth jazz of Marcus Miller, Pat Metheny and many others. There are a whole lot of classic jazzers with their heads stuffed with concrete too about that including my best friend the sax player who I won't name here...We've had many discussions about that and it's like politics. Forget it just let it go, ya know?

Not to veer too far off topic, but my wife and I just re-watched the Ken Burns Jazz documentary; it had been close to a decade for me, and she had never seen the final episode. I love that doc but the way they turn episode ten into a "funeral" for jazz and never once mention Chick or Jaco, relegate Herbie ONLY to being a Miles Davis sideman, and talk about fusion as if it was just Miles' sellout period and that nothing else happened in jazz (or "acoustic jazz," as they start to call it, with the implication that that's the only "real" jazz) until Wynton showed up in the late 80s... VERY you-kids-get-off-my-lawn!

 

To bring it back ON topic, we owe it to ourselves to be inclusive, rather than exclusive, when it comes to fostering a community about musical knowledge. Certainly you don't want just abandon your personal standards for excellence, but being dismissive of others can just keep you comfortable in your assumptions. It can feel good to be on a high horse, but sooner or later everyone is riding off without you.

 

[Mr. Nightime]

I think one of the more important ideas to instill in the younger generation of musicians is musical diversity, and finding value in All music.

 

I have a 1929 Victrola with the 78s to play on it. I tell people that it is my most prized possession, because it gave me the opportunity to listen to the older music that I would not otherwise have been exposed to. Classical, Variety, Ballads, Big Band, Western Swing, Jazz, and more. I was able to see the value in these forms of music, and develop the love that I needed to make me the player I am today.

 

And I try to embrace the newer music in much the same way.

 

Do I like all the newer music - no. Some of it just does not appeal to me.

 

Do I belittle it's value - no. Just because I don't like something, does not mean it has no value. In many ways its value is nigher, because it speaks to a different generation, much like the music of my youth spoke to me. And if it inspires the young people to take up an instrument and continue the art form, then my opinion is immaterial.

 

Watching the Grammys last night, there were a couple performances that had me reaching for the fast forward/mute button, while others had me mesmerized. But it's not only new music that makes me do that. I'm the same way with Bruce Springsteen or U2.

 

This musical diversity, and the civility and camaraderie exhibited by the members of this forum are what has kept me here all these years, and will keep me here for a long time to come.

 

 

[Morizzle]

Not to veer too far off topic, but my wife and I just re-watched the Ken Burns Jazz documentary; it had been close to a decade for me, and she had never seen the final episode. I love that doc but the way they turn episode ten into a "funeral" for jazz and never once mention Chick or Jaco, relegate Herbie ONLY to being a Miles Davis sideman, and talk about fusion as if it was just Miles' sellout period and that nothing else happened in jazz (or "acoustic jazz," as they start to call it, with the implication that that's the only "real" jazz) until Wynton showed up in the late 80s... VERY you-kids-get-off-my-lawn

 

May I recommend "Jazz in the Present Tense", an about 10 year old documentary that takes a look at current streams in American jazz music. A lot has happened since then, but I still remember very much enjoying it. It also features a now infamous snippet (in certain circles) of Robert Glasper saying Europeans can't play jazz 'cause they grow up on classical music...

I'm sure there's other great stuff out there on Netflix and such.

 

[MuzikTeechur]

As a high school music teacher, I find myself either on the FRONT lines, or SIDE lines of new musicians coming up.

We have many talented instrumentalists and singers in our high school programs, but when there are music festivals, concerts, competitions... the papers are silent. Lots of coverage for a losing basketball team, however...

But if three kids who know three chords manage to poop out some 3-minute recording from their garage, the local paper gushes over them. It would be nice if the support were for the garage bands AND the school music programs.

 

The second thing I see as a concern is that kids who might otherwise have invested in lessons and learning, are lulled into this idea that they can be a "music producer". I have them in my Music Technology class often, and the disconnect is that they don't realize that "sampling" other's work without consent is frowned upon by the courts. SOMEBODY has to make the new music, not just thieve from old albums.

The truth of the matter is that nearly every musical innovation - ragtime, dixieland, big band, jazz, bebop, fusion, rock, R&B, Reggae, Rap, and on - has come from the minority community. Now those kids are being drawn into either being "rappers" or "music producers" looking to "lay down a beat" for a rapper.. and the talent drain from actually PLAYING INSTRUMENTS is very concerning.

Rap sells, and the glitz and glam and the allure of money, sex, and nice cars belies the fact that every one of those artists had to work their asses off to get there - and most failed along the way.

Before this gets further into a "you kids get off my lawn" rant, I'll just say that I don't know where the next Jimi, or Louis, or Stevie, or Gladys, or Aretha, or Prince will come from if we're not supporting and encouraging our youth to learn actual instruments and push the boundaries.

 

[Outkaster]

As a high school music teacher, I find myself either on the FRONT lines, or SIDE lines of new musicians coming up.

We have many talented instrumentalists and singers in our high school programs, but when there are music festivals, concerts, competitions... the papers are silent. Lots of coverage for a losing basketball team, however...

But if three kids who know three chords manage to poop out some 3-minute recording from their garage, the local paper gushes over them. It would be nice if the support were for the garage bands AND the school music programs.

 

The second thing I see as a concern is that kids who might otherwise have invested in lessons and learning, are lulled into this idea that they can be a "music producer". I have them in my Music Technology class often, and the disconnect is that they don't realize that "sampling" other's work without consent is frowned upon by the courts. SOMEBODY has to make the new music, not just thieve from old albums.

The truth of the matter is that nearly every musical innovation - ragtime, dixieland, big band, jazz, bebop, fusion, rock, R&B, Reggae, Rap, and on - has come from the minority community. Now those kids are being drawn into either being "rappers" or "music producers" looking to "lay down a beat" for a rapper.. and the talent drain from actually PLAYING INSTRUMENTS is very concerning.

Rap sells, and the glitz and glam and the allure of money, sex, and nice cars belies the fact that every one of those artists had to work their asses off to get there - and most failed along the way.

Before this gets further into a "you kids get off my lawn" rant, I'll just say that I don't know where the next Jimi, or Louis, or Stevie, or Gladys, or Aretha, or Prince will come from if we're not supporting and encouraging our youth to learn actual instruments and push the boundaries.

 

Best post on the thread.

 

[Jazzmammal]

No it's not, sorry. This is the exact sentiment that prompted me to post several vids over the last year showing young rappers, techno wizards and the like doing their thing but in the course of their vids they had either a keyboard or a guitar sitting right there and they would grab either one and in two seconds you could tell they were well schooled players. They said they needed something for a certain part so they played it themselves. What blew my mind though and yes I'll admit I don't get it at all, was in the case of one guy, he casually leaned over and played a very nice little two bar synth line on his keyboard that sounded great to me but then took it and mashed the hell out of it to the point it sounded like a pos. This is the disconnect and it's understandable where older music teachers don't get it either.

 

Still, whatever these kids are doing is grounded in traditional music skills. At least the top ones. As for some local wannabe with stars in their eyes, sure they're morons who sample existing stuff and don't know squat about anything musical. BUT, do not be fooled by those local idiots. Look at the big names even if their final product sounds like a fight in a junkyard. They have real musical skills and these vids showing how they do it prove that. They are NOT simply sampling old albums without permission, that went out 25 years ago. My problem is when a big name guy is creating new beats and sound snippets he'l say oh, dude! This one is great! But, that one is crap. They both sound bizarre to me and I have no idea at all why one is great and one is poo. It's a case of you had to have grown up with it to understand. To put this in perspective does anyone here think our parents would know those differences between say the Monkees and the Eagles? Or The Doors and the Beatles? No, it's all crap to them. Their ears are stuck with the big bands, Andy Williams and the Grand Ole Opry. Oh, and don't forget Lawrence Welk. Didn't you love sitting in the living room having to listen to that stuff in the 60's and 70's? So, guess what? Now we're our parents but unlike them we have a chance now to be much more tolerant than they were.

 

I know this is a big ask and I get that. You have to listen to a half hour or longer vid of what sounds like crap to you to finally realize just what they're really doing and what it's based on. It's not easy to do but I did it and continue to do it because I want to understand what's happening, who these people are and what it's all about.

 

Bob

[cphollis]

Interesting conversation. I would assume that just as many people are born these days with musical aptitude as have been born in past eras. If anything, expressing yourself musically these days is radically easier. Youtube, software instruments, internet collaboration -- those of us of a certain vintage never had any of this.

 

However, there is an interesting dynamic in our local, retiree-oriented market. If you're a younger musician and want paying gigs here, you're gonna have to immerse yourself in the music of 1950s-60s-70s. I play in one band with a 30-something drummer, and another band with a 20-something bassist. I believe they are both enjoying themselves as they discover the music their parents grew up on.

 

And, besides, they've both mentioned there's a helluva lot less drama in bands with older members.

[nursers]

Interesting conversation. I would assume that just as many people are born these days with musical aptitude as have been born in past eras. If anything, expressing yourself musically these days is radically easier. Youtube, software instruments, internet collaboration -- those of us of a certain vintage never had any of this.

 

However, there is an interesting dynamic in our local, retiree-oriented market. If you're a younger musician and want paying gigs here, you're gonna have to immerse yourself in the music of 1950s-60s-70s. I play in one band with a 30-something drummer, and another band with a 20-something bassist. I believe they are both enjoying themselves as they discover the music their parents grew up on.

 

And, besides, they've both mentioned there's a helluva lot less drama in bands with older members.

 

Absolutely this. There's also an enormous opportunity in the coming 10-15 years for musicians happy to work in the aged care sector. Imagine when / if we are in full-time care and you still have someone turning up to play 'Roll Out The Barrels' on a badly tuned piano. That's not going to fly: but a duo or even band that's kicking out music from the 60s-80s is going to be very well loved indeed....

 

[Dr88s]

This thread gave me lots of hope for the future of music.

Until I watched the Grammys.

[Jazzmammal]

There's also an enormous opportunity in the coming 10-15 years for musicians happy to work in the aged care sector. Imagine when / if we are in full-time care and you still have someone turning up to play 'Roll Out The Barrels' on a badly tuned piano. That's not going to fly: but a duo or even band that's kicking out music from the 60s-80s is going to be very well loved indeed

 

That's already happening now with a big band I've been with for almost 10 years. In the beginning it was a traditional 18 piece big band doing private parties at country clubs. The music was classic 30's and 40's big band stuff with a Sinatra style male singer. Then the band leader announced in an email he was cutting that band down to 10 and calling it the Decades band meaning 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. He brought in a very good lady singer who does stuff from the 70's on including two MJ tunes. For those parties now he starts with String of Pearls and Tuxedo Junction but that's it. Next tune is usually 25 or 6 to 4. At the last Christmas party at the Palos Verdes country club he started String of Pearls and somebody came up to him and was shaking his head and talking. The BL cut it off and went immediately to Chicago then Superstition. The last traditional big band gig we did was about 3 years ago at the Beach Club on PCH in Santa Monica. It was for the guest of honors 85th birthday. Except for certain special occasions like that traditional big band is dead. Straight ahead jazz is almost there too. Those fans are only about 10 years younger than big band fans. The jazz I do now is the mostly classic Herbie and Jeff Lorber funky stuff. There is a restaurant gig where we'll do Ipanema, God Bless The Child, Masquerade and a few like that in the first set but that's it. 2nd set it gets funkier, 3rd set much funkier and a bit louder. For a ballad I'll do Europa instead of Embraceable You for example. Even the traditional places with older crowds are not the same older crowds we had 20 years ago. 60 somethings now were in high school in the 70's. Nobody wants to hear Sinatra or any Rat Pack stuff unless they're over 80.

 

Bob

 

[nursers]

That's brilliant stuff Bob!

[Mr. Nightime]

I knew the musical atmosphere had changed the day I heard a Muzak version of "Paint it Black"

[harmonizer]

This community has incredible value, but I will guess that most of us members are "older". There may be a younger generation that has not found us.

 

The incredible value of our community is based both on the expertise of its members, and its old-school format: there are titled threads, which encourage in-depth discussions on recognizable topics. Each member can quickly scan the list of recently changed threads, and by the title find ones they can contribute to, or learn from. And each member can quickly and easily ignore the other threads. This is how you enable detailed and valuable discussions. Facebook can't come close to this value - not even when a private group is created on Facebook.

 

We have also built a highly friendly culture here. The moderators deserve credit for cajoling us and steering us members to act like humans - and it is working.

 

But we do have an old-school appearance or style here, so maybe the younger generation has not found us. I don't really want to change the interface, to the extent that it is highly effective, so I am not sure I have the right answer. One thought it to post the equivalent of some pointers ("online billboards?") in some of the online places that younger people visit, to let them know where a great online musicians community can be found.