Need Guidance: A-100 vs Crumar Mojo NOT a "which is better"!

[Denver Drew]

TL;DR Considering selling my A-100 for a Crumar Mojo and wondering if the trade-off of the original console sound, feel, and control setup for the convenience, portability, and built in features like leslie sim and headphone out is worth the trade-off? Will I kick myself for embracing the new era of clonewheels or will I regret being a "stuck in the past" purist cork sniffer when the maintenance problems start cropping up on the original? Or does one simply need to own all the things, different horses for different courses?

/TL;DR

 

Well I'm torn and could use some guidance from those that have been there before and have a bit of perspective. I currently own a 1961 A-100 that was recently serviced and is running like a dream. I don't have a leslie for it yet but the search continues there and maybe a 1/4 to a vent 2 gets me some modern comforts in the interim. After years of stopping and starting to try and tackle the beast I have finally found the perfect teaching situation right down the street from me to teach me properly play the Hammond organ. Not a keyboard guy but an actual Hammond player that plays the genres I want to learn. YES! Also my wife is very cool and said go with whatever will make you happiest. A lady that gets my passion and supports it? I married up for sure. Here's the problem, I'm actually considering selling it (GASP!) and I don't know if I'm making the right move or a big mistake.

 

First my downside list. Maintaining the beast has been kind of costly as a nagging issue with the percussion took a lot of time to resolve. I also have no idea how to assess if a leslie is in the right condition, should one finally become available, and I understand those are another maintenance sink unto themselves. Cost isn't everything but no one likes a recurring headache (i.e. the classic car where you spend more time under the hood than behind the wheel). I moved into a new place and the organ is still sitting in the garage attached to the Roll-or-karis because my new office is in the basement. I don't want to haul it all the way down here risking life and limb only to have to haul it back up again if I decide to sell it lol. I've got little kiddos and the only time I really get to practice on weekdays is after they are asleep. Can't exactly crank it up and get those hot overdrive sounds despite my office/studio being two floors away. But there is the other side of the coin, it is the real deal and nothing compares to the feel of the genuine article! Also this is a good example of an A-100 from what I understand and I worked very hard to get this rig (removed from a mountain home in Boulder, CO). I'm only the 3rd owner and other than 1 tube it's all original to my knowledge. Early enough there isn't foam under the keybed, has percussion, reverb, etc. It wasn't played for years which is both good and bad but most of the post-sitting dormant problems have been taken care of already.

 

The Mojo gives me all the modern conveniences the original doesn't. It's portable, great sounding with updates always coming in to make the sound even better, headphone out, built in leslie sim, the new XT version even has the 11 pin leslie connector. The downside seems to really be no multi-contact, doesn't match the original console layout, and it could be obsolete in just a few years as the newest hotness comes out and sounds even more "like the real thing". I don't gig right now since I'm really just kicking off my learning in earnest but someday if I want to I'd need to get one of these at that point anyway. Dragging around hundreds of pounds of hammond and leslie furniture is a non-starter.

 

So my question. Is it worth keeping the A100 to learn on the real deal (adding a leslie or a vent 2 when I can) or better to just jump into the 21st century and be blissfully ignorant of what's missing? For those of you who have moved over to the digital realm and left the console behind do you regret selling it? For those that stuck with the console are you still loving it or wishing you had all the modern conveniences? Or is the only true way to start saving and own ALL the things so you have the best of both worlds?

 

My head says get the mojo, my heart says keep the a100, my wallet says please don't buy all the things like you usually do . Help, vote and give me some details on why you landed where you did!

 

This is cross listed over on the organ forum, trying to get as many opinions as possible so forgive me if you frequent both

[Jim Alfredson]

Don"t sell a vintage Hammond for a clone wheel, especially a Crumar. You"ll regret it.

[jeffincltnc]

All logic says what Jim says - don"t sell a good vintage for a clone.

 

I did sell an early 1960"s A-105 and Leslie for a Viscount Legend and I"d rather have the vintage. However, my organ and Leslie really needed a lot of work - not just parts but time. It was not in good operating shape at the time and I was probably a big ways towards the purchase price of the clone wheel just for service required.

 

When I bought the clone, it was also to do more organ gigs and actually get it out to play. I kind of needed the clone wheel more for taking it out. I had to shift to my needs at the time.

 

Good luck!

[Doerfler]

I own an A 100 and a dual manual Mojo. Were I to get rid of one, it would be the Mojo 100 out of 100 times. I like my Mojo, but not as much as my A 100.

[KuruPrionz]

First question: Are you capable of tackling the tech work yoursefl? Depending on who is doing the work and how close-by they are you may either have to pay for the house call(s) or move the organ a considerable distance (twice).

 

You've mentioned all original tubes except one. While tubes have a relatively easy life in an organ compared to a guitar amp, they are like lightbulbs in that they will work until they don't.

Also, tube sockets need cleaning and tightening, that is a LOT Of work in a Hammond.

Last but not least, some of the tubes in there may be far more valuable than the replacement tubes in terms of cost. The older USA and European tubes were made to a different standard than the tubes that are available now.

New tubes don't sound bad (mostly) but they aren't as good either.

 

So it might be worth the time and research to note the country of origin on the tubes (most Hammonds have tubes labelled Hammond even though the company never made tubes) and do a little research on what resides inside your box.

You might do very well to sell some of the tubes that are in your organ and replace them with new tubes, the tubes are not really factored in to the total price of the instrument.

Full disclosure, I've purchased a few old tube organs at thrift stores for stupid money and sold the tubes, amps and speakers for a good return. Yes, I am irredeemably evil, I doubt anybody would have bought the same instruments and paid to have them re-furbished.

 

On your maintenance reciept, were all the capacitors changed? If not, that is a disaster waiting to happen. Old capacitors leak current and can cause catastrophic failure of circuits and components. Been there, done that, sometimes stuff bursts into flames and you get to smell the yellow smoke. Lovely.

 

Another consideration - a 1961 organ will have speakers with Alnico magnets. Alnico loses considerable magnetic strength over time, Speakers tend to become brittle with age as well. Hammond did not put high dollar speakers in their products, they tend to be much heavier for one thing.

 

You already know this since you mentioned it - you are not done paying for maintenance work on your Hammond or on a Leslie if/when you get one. There will be more work required.

 

There is no argument from me that the sound of a real Hammond through a real 2 rotor Leslie can only be had from the real deal.

 

Considering portablility, the option to use headphones, the reliable and non-changing reality of solid state and digital audio gear and generally speaking the lack of maintenance, I vote for #2.

[Dave Bryce]

I own an A 100 and a dual manual Mojo. Were I to get rid of one, it would be the Mojo 100 out of 100 times. I like my Mojo, but not as much as my A 100.

I'd go with 99 out of 100 - the Mojo is easier to carry and put in the car.

 

dB

 

[pinkfloydcramer]

This thread is very relevant to me. I am getting ready to go pick up an A100, pretty sure I will be selling my Crumar Mojo classic. Haven't had the Mojo that long or played it that much, no gigs, but I like it a lot for the action and it sounds great through a 145. But when I went to look at an A100 last week, I was absolutely floored by how it sounded (through the church's Leslie 45). That backed up what I had seen on YouTube A/B's where the Hammond had unmistakably more presence.

 

Another wrinkle to all this, is that the A100 seller recently got a Nord C2, claims he doesn't need his A anymore. He is a fantastic gospel organist who has played the real deal for services, for years, so I'm surprised he would say that.

[RandyFF]

While I have neither, I'd most certainly vote for the Mojo.

 

The suck with keyboards, esp workstations, is that there can be so much to learn, so many patches to audition and put in favorite banks and then combine into multis, etc etc etc., that it can take up a lot of time that could have been spent playing music. The solution there is to get a stage piano, and just play! Same with your Hammond, getting it and the Leslie up to speed can detract from playing music.

 

Sounds like you're developing your organ chops. Perhaps it's better, before you get used to a superior instrument, to learn with the Mojo. You won't have comparison envy, you won't know any better. And it's not like the Mojo is a slouch, with a SS3 amp + a woofer, plus the vent, you will be getting a glorious, room filling sound. How much better does better need to be before you just get to the business of learning and playing with others? There are many complaints about the sound quality and features of most organs in modern boards. OTOH, The Mojo, from what I've read, has relatively few detractors, it's at the top of the heap with just a few others.

 

And, being a smaller rig equipped with a headphone jack, you'd more likely have the option of moving it into your living spaces instead of relegating the basement as your practice room.

 

If I was serious about having an organ, personally I'd want to have one that was already mostly in good shape, checked out, etc. Unless you have a knack and enjoyment for DIY maintenance and repair, it might not be worth your personal time to get it up to speed. Down the road, as you're able to guage how important organ playing has become for you and you're no longer in the mostly learning stage, having the real deal would make more sense in my book.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RandyFF]

Don"t sell a vintage Hammond for a clone wheel, especially a Crumar. You"ll regret it.

 

Why esp a Crumar? I've read 90% favorable reviews on the sound and leslie sim.

[Adan]

If you take mobility out of the equation it"s not even a close question. But I"d get a Leslie too.

[uhoh7]

I was sort of in this situation.

 

I inherited an RT3 sans Leslie. Had to pick it up in Seattle area and haul it back to Idaho.

 

So I went into intense Leslie hunt. Wasn't looking great untill I found some ads on craig's list. Long story short: on the way home I stopped in a town and bought a 22H(converted to 122-like) a 760 and a 105. All together for a grand. I did not plug them in.

 

I got home and spent several weeks inspecting. Finally I went for it. They all worked.

 

If your A100 is working it's a no brainer. Find a 122 or 22H. The latter will be cheaper. Every part can be had. Tons of guys rebuild those amps, if needed. I think with an A100 you may want to get an internal speaker out of the mix, and even use a 147, I don't know, but I know the A100 is a bit different to set up with Leslie.

 

Sure some clonewheels sound very good in headphones compared to a recorded Hammond/Leslie. In person, forget it.

 

If a clonewheel could compete in person, you would not see Leslie's in so many man-caves (and women's too) on the tube. In fact you would not see so many working Hammonds. The Leslies move air altogether differently, and even the big cones are special.

 

Hammonds or Leslies can break for sure. They are usually easier to fix than any modern electronic keyboard.

You already have the hard part done I think, the A100 is in position, right?

Why sell it before you even hear it properly, with a leslie? Then if you think a clone is OK, get it first. Play them both. Then sell one.

 

One last thing: the action. You will never in your life touch an action like a real tonewheel attached to anything else. You won't know that till you play them side by side.

 

Now gigging....I don't think many jobs pay enough to move the organ anymore. For that a sane person would find a chop, at least. Then you are down to around 200lbs. Easy with a dolly. A crumar would be easier Just to keep the real sweetie safe.

[mate stubb]

Your organ is running like a dream. The best thing you can do to avoid future problems with your tonewheel organ is to turn it on and play it regularly. Once an organ has been refurbed, it's good for 20 years. Same with a leslie - clean the motors, have the amp checked over, retube if you need, and it's also gonna be good for a very long time.

 

Don't talk yourself out of the real thing worrying about service issues. It will be running long after today's clone organs are DOA.

 

Get a clone when you need one for gigging. But learn to play on the real thing - you are blessed and the envy of many.

[Doc Tonewheel]

When you can, spend some money on getting your console a good overhaul. The tonewheel consoles were over engineered, and after a good going over, it will last long after we're gone. You will really regret getting rid of your Hammond. Would you get rid of a high quality grand piano like a Steinway in lieu of a digital piano?

[Joe Muscara]

I love my Mojo 61, but I say keep the A-100. Find a way to afford the Mojo or whatever clone attracts you when you're financially ready. Put that A-100 in your office now!

[bourniplus]

Now gigging....I don't think many jobs pay enough to move the organ anymore. For that a sane person would find a chop, at least. Then you are down to around 200lbs. Easy with a dolly. A crumar would be easier Just to keep the real sweetie safe.

 

I take out a tonewheel Hammond on gigs many times in a year. (Not that I'm pretending to be mentally sane.) To me it's not about how much the gig pays, it's more like a gift to myself. Many others here will also tell you that most often, instead of a chop, the solution is the roll-or-karis. I find it easier to roll the organ than to haul a 35 lbs keyboard. Flights of stairs are another story of course.

 

To the OP, my vote goes to keeping the A100, and keep searching for a vintage Leslie.

[Denver Drew]

Thanks everyone for the input! It's very informative and hopefully will help others down the road in the same spot.

First question: Are you capable of tackling the tech work yoursefl? Depending on who is doing the work and how close-by they are you may either have to pay for the house call(s) or move the organ a considerable distance (twice).

 

So it might be worth the time and research to note the country of origin on the tubes (most Hammonds have tubes labelled Hammond even though the company never made tubes) and do a little research on what resides inside your box.

You might do very well to sell some of the tubes that are in your organ and replace them with new tubes, the tubes are not really factored in to the total price of the instrument.

Full disclosure, I've purchased a few old tube organs at thrift stores for stupid money and sold the tubes, amps and speakers for a good return. Yes, I am irredeemably evil, I doubt anybody would have bought the same instruments and paid to have them re-furbished.

 

On your maintenance reciept, were all the capacitors changed? If not, that is a disaster waiting to happen. Old capacitors leak current and can cause catastrophic failure of circuits and components. Been there, done that, sometimes stuff bursts into flames and you get to smell the yellow smoke. Lovely.

 

Another consideration - a 1961 organ will have speakers with Alnico magnets. Alnico loses considerable magnetic strength over time, Speakers tend to become brittle with age as well. Hammond did not put high dollar speakers in their products, they tend to be much heavier for one thing.

Thankfully I have a great tech to call for the big stuff. I'm decent with a soldering iron and I've played guitar and bass for years so tube amps and tubes are in my wheelhouse. The ones in there now are all the Hammond branded ones which I have not reason to assume are not the originals since this wasn't played a ton over the last 50 years. I also have a bag of spare power tubes but of course none of the preamp tubes. The one tube that I did replace is the 12BH7A which is now rocking a bog standard electro harmonics 12AU7 if I recall correctly. If I keep it the tube hunt will be in full force to be sure. I have absolutely no idea about the caps and that is one of my concerns cost wise, the other is the dreaded busbar job. My tech said all was looking well on both fronts for now and he is certainly the expert so I'll trust his opinion. The speakers look to be the original alnicos. They still sound strong and don't seem to be getting any cracking in the usual areas but in my experience speakers at some point just give up and die. Finding suitable replacements for those shouldn't be a big deal. I'm thinking of having the main signal run to the leslie and only the reverb run through the internal speakers. They would be on light duty at that point.

Another wrinkle to all this, is that the A100 seller recently got a Nord C2, claims he doesn't need his A anymore. He is a fantastic gospel organist who has played the real deal for services, for years, so I'm surprised he would say that.

Wow that is wild. I didn't like the C2D sounds much at all and the drawbars they had were a hard no for me after sitting at the real deal.

Don"t sell a vintage Hammond for a clone wheel, especially a Crumar. You"ll regret it.

First off sir I'm a big fan of your videos and your playing. One of the few great content creators for Hammond organ I've found on YouTube so thanks for that! I saw your reply and thought "Well I was not expecting this kind of heavy hitter response right out of the gate. Jim Alfredson says keep it or you'll regret it then it's time to get my friends over here and move this thing!"

 

Thank you to everyone for offering up your opinions and experiences. Hammond is a tough one to get started with because I have no knowledge base and it can be daunting. I've decided I'll be keeping the console and continuing the leslie hunt! Moving it into the basement studio will only cost me a little pizza and beer for my large friends. A price worth paying.

[pinkfloydcramer]

Wow that is wild. I didn't like the C2D sounds much at all and the drawbars they had were a hard no for me after sitting at the real deal.

 

I haven't been a fan of Nord organ since the Electro 3, but his C2 sounded very good (to my damaged ears) through his solid state Leslie 302c. The C2 has no drawbars, just lighted buttons like on the original Electro. So he is hunting an Ocean Beach set. Also a tube Leslie.

[Denver Drew]

Wow that is wild. I didn't like the C2D sounds much at all and the drawbars they had were a hard no for me after sitting at the real deal.

 

I haven't been a fan of Nord organ since the Electro 3, but his C2 sounded very good (to my damaged ears) through his solid state Leslie 302c. The C2 has no drawbars, just lighted buttons like on the original Electro. So he is hunting an Ocean Beach set. Also a tube Leslie.

Oh I've never seen that one before so I have no idea how it sounds. The keys player in my old funk band had a Nord Electo with those little up down button drawbars settings. I get that those are really the all in one solution for gigging, which it did quite well, but for organ I saw those buttons and thought how could anyone accurately change drawbars on the fly if I they wanted a different sound?

 

It all seems to come down to the leslie in the end. They just make it all sound better lol.

[Doerfler]

It all seems to come down to the leslie in the end. They just make it all sound better lol.

 

Not lol. This is gospel truth.

 

[Jazz+]

A100: better for playing at home.

 

Mojo 61: better for playing away from home (it's 26 pounds portable and has a good Rhodes!)

[LX88]

You can have both

 

That being said I am kind of leaning toward using modules instead of using the Fatar ked bed that everyone else uses.

 

Right now I am using HX3 and am seriously considering e module.upgrading to 3.5 if they have gotten the CV right this time

I also would consider looking into the Legend Live module at 795 dollars.

 

That Fatar keybed is just too stiff and the keydip is just too deep for me. I have found other controllers I like much more. One of them is a cheap Casio! The other is a Beringer.

 

The keybed of the A 100 is one of the things that makes it great. Also, I like using the internal speakers with a leslie. It helps fatten up the sound.I don't use any spin settings at home, so an a 100 plus a leslie is my favorite sound.

 

The Crumar Mojo was not for me as much as I respect the company, There are many who love the Mojo on this forum, so it may be right for you. I love the CLEANLINESS of the clonewheel organ sound in general.

At this time there are several options that are very good.

 

 

[Outkaster]

I"m surprised at some of the replies on here from some that probably haven"t played a real console. Unless you have you can"t really comment as you don"t have anything compare it to. I know that wasn"t the intent of the OP but this is how these threads often end up. One things clones never do is give you the presence of the instrument. They just can"t. For those of us in the business this is a no brainer. I"m not saying you have to gig with one but if you let a console go, especially one running well, you will regret it. Especially with a clone that will be outdated in a couple more years. If you need a Leslie I have 4 sitting around I could sell you.

[Delaware Dave]

The only way to explain it is to compare vinyl records to CD's. I have a huge collection of vinyl records and when comparing them on the same stereo system to the CD version there is a fullness of the instrument sound that is not present in the CD.

[elif]

If you can swing it, get both. I have a chopped A100 and a C2D. When I play each through the same Leslie, they sound fine. However, for some reason (!) I want the C2D to sound, and play like the A100. The chop has so much more character. There is something different about its key response and its non-sterile tonal character that is so appealing, and this with a Trek II preamp. It is just a lot more fun to play.

[Lou_NC]

Keep the console. Keep the console. Keep the console.

 

If you need silent practice at home, connect the A100 through a preamp/mixer, use a Ventilator, and run thru headphones. Benefit: you're playing the "real" keybed, and getting a really good sound through your headphones. Take your time and find/buy a real vintage Leslie to match that console, for when the kids are awake! This is *not* an "either-or" proposition by any means.

 

Oh, and if you do end up playing outside the home, buy yourself the Mojo (or whatever keybed feels good to you and has the price/features you want). They're *all* compromises compared to the console keybed, but the light weight sure makes up for it!!

 

Lou

 

 

[Denver Drew]

I"m surprised at some of the replies on here from some that probably haven"t played a real console. Unless you have you can"t really comment as you don"t have anything compare it to. I know that wasn"t the intent of the OP but this is how these threads often end up. One things clones never do is give you the presence of the instrument. They just can"t. For those of us in the business this is a no brainer. I"m not saying you have to gig with one but if you let a console go, especially one running well, you will regret it. Especially with a clone that will be outdated in a couple more years. If you need a Leslie I have 4 sitting around I could sell you.

 

I just sat down at the beast tonight and played a little. You are all correct there just isn't anything like it. I smile every time I flip that start switch. Drawbacks (and sore backs) be damned, it goes down into the studio on Friday. With your help maybe a Leslie will join it soon!