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What happened to multi-timbrality?


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I'm pretty shocked at the paucity of "fully" multi-timbral synths in 2020. By which I mean 16 channels like the little JV1010 and many others of the 90's (emu), and 2000s.

 

It's hard to do analog, I get it, so I don't expect the clones to get MT. But the Hydrasynth is mono-timbral? Yikes. I know they got to pay for those POLY AT sensors and that ribbon, but at least a 2nd part would be nice.

 

Now I see why the Virus Access TI2 hasn't been updated. There is no competition. Blofeld but, everyone says the multi-part is a PITA in actual use.

 

I'm very curious to see if Osmose will have multiple parts. It looks like the Haken people have been thinking about it.

 

I can see how maybe the DAW picked up some heavy lifting on the timbrality. But "Dawless" is a real thing now. And the 2020 synths capable of 16 channel MT? Novation Peak can do 8 parts, I think. Not bad.

 

At this point they may have forgot how to make em. You could say, dawless is analog oriented and a way to show off your collection, so who cares?

 

Considering how hard it is to discover the timbrality of a bunch of modern synths, it's not a popular topic for manufacturers.

 

The future seemed alot more bright in 1980 in terms of functionallity. By late 80s I had SL880 with 4 splits, and proteus 1 with 16 parts. That rig set me back about 2.2K, close to 4k today. And I never did learn to sequence it at the time LOL. I had a brother sequencer.

 

I still have it all, so I better stop whining and try to see if I really do care, myself :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, 

SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2

Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4

MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals

Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. 

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Proper VA can be very demanding... note that true VA synths don't have near the polyphony of romplers. The Hydrasynth has 8-voice polyphony. What would be the point of making it 16-part multitimbral if it can only play 8 notes at a time? (Novation Peak is the same.) Proteus was sample-based. There are plenty of sample-based multi-timbral boards, even at low prices. See Juno DS, Yamaha MX, Korg Kross, Casios, etc.

 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Well, software instruments have taken away a bunch of the need for me. At home, I used to use a Proteus, Morpheus and my JX10, and had them all hooked up and able to play multiple parts (JX only two, but still).

 

I don't miss those days...I hated programming multi-timbrally on synths like a TX81z with that tiny screen. I'd hate it more now with my eyesight :) Having to save the performances, sysex/patch changes...argh. Software isn't perfect, but it gets rid of ALL of that and most of the cabling too.

 

For live, I try to keep things reasonably simple, I VERY rarely go beyond two parts for a given song. I wouldn't be hired by a "GET IT EXACT!" tribute band but it's a down side I'm willing to accept! :D

 

Speaking of a Virus, even when I had one I think the only tune I had splits on was "Relax"...I prefer to have a single sound and just morph it with all the controls as needed, or change patches if necessary. ymmv of course.

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My first multi-timbral since was the little Yamaha TG-100. From there I went on to the MU80, Motif 6, Korg M3, Roland JV-1080, MOX6, and probably a bunch that I am forgetting.

 

When I got my Yamaha Montage 8 last year, I was shocked at how difficult and annoying it can be to use this $4000 instrument as a 16-channel instrument.

 

As a result, I went out and got a Roland Integra-7, which IS a 16-channel multi-timbral module. And I am also glad that I kept my TI Polar, which also operates spectacularly in 16-channel mode.

 

http://www.fototime.com/D320648635F82B5/standard.jpg

Michael

Montage 8, Logic Pro X, Omnisphere, Diva, Zebra 2, etc.

 

 

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The analog revival didn"t just bring predictable challenges for analog instruments, but also a renewed focus on simplicity across all instruments. Multi-timbrality appears to be one of the casualties, which is a crying shame. Being able to record tracks easily is still no substitute for tweaking multiple patches while a sequence plays to try to find a perfect balance, or bouncing back and forth without full recording passes.

 

Robust multi-timbral functionality is one of the reasons I"m a devoted Kurzweil fan, and also part of why I keep eyeing a CODE-8 for my analog needs. The good news is Osmose claims to support split and layered modes. Whether it"s just bi-timbral or more ambitious isn"t clear in anything I"ve seen.

Acoustic: Shigeru Kawai SK-7 ~ Breedlove C2/R

MIDI: Kurzweil Forte ~ Sequential Prophet X ~ Yamaha CP88 ~ Expressive E Osmose

Electric: Schecter Solo Custom Exotic ~ Chapman MLB1 Signature Bass

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The analog revival didn"t just bring predictable challenges for analog instruments, but also a renewed focus on simplicity across all instruments. Multi-timbrality appears to be one of the casualties, which is a crying shame.

 

I've been hanging onto my old stuff for so long that I didn't notice the loss of multi-timbrality.

 

Robust multi-timbral functionality is one of the reasons I"m a devoted Kurzweil fan

 

Been happy with my Kurzweil 1000 modules since the 1980s. They are very robust machines.

 

also part of why I keep eyeing a CODE-8 for my analog needs.

 

As an owner of an Andromeda since 2001, a multitimbral analog synth is a great tool.

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Well, software instruments have taken away a bunch of the need for me. At home, I used to use a Proteus, Morpheus and my JX10, and had them all hooked up and able to play multiple parts (JX only two, but still).

Like you I go back to the days of pre-VIs, playing sequences off my Atari ST into hardware and recording them onto my Tascam 388. I still recorded parts one at a time, as I was (mistakenly) quantizing all my midi. Playing a multitimbral performance where one or more synths were playing chords, plus having a drum machine going, was a timing mush! Some of that was the instruments, and probably most was due to 5-pin midi's slow serial protocol. Even without strict quantizing, things just sounded tighter when you didn't have a single synth or module trying to play a ton of things simultaneously.

 

These days I don't really get why 16-part multitimbrality would be needed in a single synth, unless you're doing the "one-person-band" thing. If you're in the studio you're doing one part at a time. Live, I'm thinking a one-person-band would be using an arranger keyboard, or a laptop with VIs. Maybe I'm wrong.

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My collection is mostly full on 16 channels onboard.

 

Kronos 61, Integra, Blofeld, MODX7, Andromeda, TG77, Fusion, Privia PX5S

 

I really enjoy building complex combis to get as close to the studio version as possible, while staying sane on stage. Even if they're not going to be gigged, I prefer multi-timbral when possible.

 

 

That being said, there are still quite a few fully multi-timbral instruments currently being sold:

 

Akai, Roland, Elecktron grooveboxes

 

Roland Fantom

Korg Kronos, Krome, Kross

Yamaha Montage, MODX

Kurzweil Forte, PC4

 

Waldorf Kyra, Sledge, Blofeld

Kodamo Essence FM synth

 

And a few 4-part multi-timbral units

 

Dexibell Vivo series

Casio PX-560, Privia PX5S

Nord Wave 2, Stage 3

Korg Wavestate

Roland Jupiter X

PolyEnd / Dreadbox Medusa

 

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And a few 4-part multi-timbral units

 

Dexibell Vivo series

Casio PX-560, Privia PX5S

Nord Wave 2, Stage 3

Korg Wavestate

Roland Jupiter X

PolyEnd / Dreadbox Medusa

I'm not familiar with the capabilities of all of those, but I believe the Casio PX-560 is 16-part multi-timbral (isn't every GM compatible board 16-part multi-timbral?), as are numerous other Casios. And I believe the Stage 3 is only 2-part multi-timbral (the two panels can be set to receive on different MIDI channels),

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Multitimbrality has partly been a casualty of the DAW era's appearance. If you're going to commit to it, the entry fee in hardware is becoming extra-versatile with the second and third layers of just two, maybe three instruments, IMO. Not everyone thinks in that direction. I got into it when I landed a Korg 01W, gradually learning how to route instrument sections more reflexively as I worked. That's how I came to be Logic-focused. I don't have to wrestle with things to nearly the degree I once did. In effect, I'm always in Multi mode, because I can sub-group three synths as easily as I can do it with three violas.

 

I'm impressed with the new Fantom's ability to do almost Everything, but especially the clear mandate to be a control center for other gear. Only a certain number of players will go there, but if you plug in an iPad or two and a pair of outboard synths, its about as close to T.O.N.T.O. as you're going to get. Even if you're mainly a lap-topper, with that level of options only as far away as a decent USB interface and a few softsynths, multitimbrality is now less of a feature and more a way of thinking. He pontifcated. :/

 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

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And a few 4-part multi-timbral units

 

Dexibell Vivo series

Casio PX-560, Privia PX5S

Nord Wave 2, Stage 3

Korg Wavestate

Roland Jupiter X

PolyEnd / Dreadbox Medusa

I'm not familiar with the capabilities of all of those, but I believe the Casio PX-560 is 16-part multi-timbral (isn't every GM compatible board 16-part multi-timbral?), as are numerous other Casios. And I believe the Stage 3 is only 2-part multi-timbral (the two panels can be set to receive on different MIDI channels),

 

You may be right on Casios in general, it's been awhile since I played my PX-5S.

 

Unless they downgraded the Stage 3, my Stage 2 is 6-way, not including the External. There are 2 instances of each piano, organ, and synth, over 3 split zones.

 

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Unless they downgraded the Stage 3, my Stage 2 is 6-way, not including the External. There are 2 instances of each piano, organ, and synth, over 3 split zones.

Yup, they downgraded, that's unfortunately one of the NS2 features that did not make it into the NS3, you can no longer address the different "instruments" on different channels. Internally, the number of parts is the same, so in that respect, it's as multi-timbral as it ever was, but if want to drive it externally over MIDI, there are only 2 parts you can drive, one for each panel (what was called a slot on the NS2).

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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My first multi-timbral since was the little Yamaha TG-100. From there I went on to the MU80, Motif 6, Korg M3, Roland JV-1080, MOX6, and probably a bunch that I am forgetting.

 

When I got my Yamaha Montage 8 last year, I was shocked at how difficult and annoying it can be to use this $4000 instrument as a 16-channel instrument.

 

As a result, I went out and got a Roland Integra-7, which IS a 16-channel multi-timbral module. And I am also glad that I kept my TI Polar, which also operates spectacularly in 16-channel mode.

 

http://www.fototime.com/D320648635F82B5/standard.jpg

 

Nice looking setup.

 

I can relate to the Yammie being stubborn to work with as a 16ch instrument... I don't like that the channels are locked... instrument 1 on MIDI channel 1, instr 2 on ch2, etc. Makes it hard to make layers and splits when working with other instruments.

 

The Integra is much easier to work with, the way it should be done -- any instrument to any channel. Set up your keyboard zones and velocity splits, set levels and tweaks, name it and save, and you're golden. FX aren't the greatest though, but live it's good enough. Some of the SuperNatural articulations are pretty fun.

 

I finally got myself a little doodad, an SPDIF coax to optical converter, for $16. Now instead of running the Integra via stereo audio OUT to my Kronos stereo audio IN, I use the Kronos SPDIF IN. The digital IN is brighter and clearer than the audio IN. And the bonus is that the Integra has a pair of external audio INs on both the front and the back, so it can act as submixer for 2 other stereo synths.

 

All audio connected and under control, and all multi-timbral instruments staying in their lane. MIDI rulez

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Unless they downgraded the Stage 3, my Stage 2 is 6-way, not including the External. There are 2 instances of each piano, organ, and synth, over 3 split zones.

Yup, they downgraded, that's unfortunately one of the NS2 features that did not make it into the NS3, you can no longer address the different "instruments" on different channels. Internally, the number of parts is the same, so in that respect, it's as multi-timbral as it ever was, but if want to drive it externally over MIDI, there are only 2 parts you can drive, one for each panel (what was called a slot on the NS2).

 

Whoa, that sucks. I never did like Nords, always thought they were over-rated and expensive. But if you want portability and hands-on control they're the tops (and the pianos cut nicely).

 

For me the NS2 was a nice compromise. I've got the White Grand and a couple others loaded. It was about $2k shipped, with case, not including VAT.

 

And it has the most excellent TP40 keybed (don't stay inspired with a TP100). That seems to have brought my piano skills up one notch, and draws me in to keep playing and learning new songs.

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As an owner of an Andromeda since 2001, a multitimbral analog synth is a great tool.

 

Not even 10 years ago, getting a $750 synth was a challenge for me. "One day", I told myself, "I will own an Andy"... (my name is Andrew =)

 

When I finally got my A6, the first thing I did was hook up an external controller, and go to Mix Mode (I had a Fusion and a Micron, and was already playing multi-timbrally).

 

Funny how you take the Andromeda's 16 part, 16 channel, 16 track sequencer for granted. To this day, it is unmatched in the analog world.

 

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These days I don't really get why 16-part multitimbrality would be needed in a single synth, unless you're doing the "one-person-band" thing. If you're in the studio you're doing one part at a time. Live, I'm thinking a one-person-band would be using an arranger keyboard, or a laptop with VIs. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

I don't use all 16 channels, but I do sometimes run out of room having only 16 parts.

 

My shtick is the Geddy Lee thing... sing backups and occasional lead, play bass, and play a stack of keys. Foot pedals included (FCB1010).

 

Now not every song is a Rush song, but when I make combis, I try to get as close to the studio version as I can. Which means a dozen or more keyboard sounds (yes, including sound FX and one-shot samples), Kronos / Integra / Rev2 layers, and Minitaur for bass duties. Foot pedals are triggering notes or chords.

 

I've reached the limit -- both in multi-timbral parts and keyboard real estate -- with songs like

 

The Spirit of Radio

Uptown Funk

Footloose

Time

Fly Like an Eagle

Love Shack

My Prerogative (Brittany's version, SFX everywhere)

Billie Jean

Wanted Dead or Alive

The Walk

 

Heck, anything with piano, organ AND synth sounds will take up all the keyboard real estate in a dual 61 key setup. (Too bad I quit gigging just as got my 3rd tier NS2....)

 

Of course, less than a 1/3 of songs require that full onslaught of keys, since I'm mostly a bass guitarist. But when it's time, I love to bring it. Audience loves it too.

 

I don't juggle, but I do the next best thing, lol. What a rush it is.

 

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probably because multitimbral synths tend to be romplers.

Yes... same as it ever was.

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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These days I don't really get why 16-part multitimbrality would be needed in a single synth, unless you're doing the "one-person-band" thing.
.

 

Yes.

 

Live, I'm thinking a one-person-band would be using an arranger keyboard, or a laptop with VIs. Maybe I'm wrong.
.

 

I think an arranger keyboard, live, sounds too polished, too produced, and sounds more like you"re playing along with a recording rather than MIDI sequences. I use a laptop to launch sequences but don"t trust them as much for VIs. It"s more a distrust of Windows, I guess. I"m transitioning to iPad but still really prefer rack modules.

The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

 

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin

 

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I think an arranger keyboard, live, sounds too polished, too produced, and sounds more like you"re playing along with a recording rather than MIDI sequences. I use a laptop to launch sequences but don"t trust them as much for VIs. It"s more a distrust of Windows, I guess. I"m transitioning to iPad but still really prefer rack modules.

Well I don't think you'll ever see me playing one of those keyboards. I do very occasional "playalongs", sometimes on a solo gig or when I used to do the "continuous" at a wedding gig. I make my own midi sequences & use top-shelf drum sounds & percussion loops. Does it sound "less polished" than an arranger keyboard? That's pretty subjective. I just hope it sounds like a band with some energy! Anyway, recently I printed these sequences to a stereo audio file, and now I just trigger the audio file playback. Easier on the CPU, although I lose the ability to control the individual part levels.

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This is one synth that I purchased 15 years ago that I've never even considered selling. Yes, they're a lot of money, but -

 

Every sound in the Virus TI synths sounds exactly the same whether in single mode or 16-part multi-timbral mode. This is due, in part, to the fact that the TIs have 16 complete sets of multi-effects. The TIs have 16 reverbs, 16 delays, 16 distortion units, 16 choruses, 16 EQs, etc. This makes the TI a perfect 16-part multi-timbral synthesizer (albeit digital) to complement my romplers. Yes, my Integra-7 has one helluva digital synthesizer on board, but the TI is knobby as hell.

 

http://www.fototime.com/9DFF410EB5F92A7/standard.jpg

Michael

Montage 8, Logic Pro X, Omnisphere, Diva, Zebra 2, etc.

 

 

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I bitterly regret selling my Virus (to fund a clonewheel purchase, which was a nice keyboard, but now I regret it). Granted, mine was a Virus kb. Loved the knobs, and the memories of tweaking them live may lead me toward a Prophet rev2 (or similar) at some point. Virus has super build quality and key action too.

 

I like what I'm hearing about the Hydrasynth build quality, so I'd need to make sure it can do "old school analog" and not just the crazy/phasey wave stuff.

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At this point, I don't even consider multi-timbrality. Most of my hardware synths don't offer it, and I never think about it. Playing out? Yes, then I notice and think about things like patch remain, etc. I decided that the laptop was my answer. I've tried Kronos - they are wonderful. But the laptop is even better. Way better. So, GigPerformer is my multimbral solution. Any of my hardware synths that I want access to (but don't want to carry) are sampled deeply and put into Falcon, which has an amazing set of sound design tools. It is so much more modern than Kontakt. I can build multis in Falcon, or in GigPerformer as needed. But in the DAW? It just doesn't matter.
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there are still quite a few fully multi-timbral instruments currently being sold:

 

Akai, Roland, Elecktron grooveboxes

 

Roland Fantom

Korg Kronos, Krome, Kross

Yamaha Montage, MODX

Kurzweil Forte, PC4

 

Waldorf Kyra, Sledge, Blofeld

Kodamo Essence FM synth

 

And a few 4-part multi-timbral units

 

Dexibell Vivo series

Casio PX-560, Privia PX5S

Nord Wave 2, Stage 3

Korg Wavestate

Roland Jupiter X

PolyEnd / Dreadbox Medusa

 

Great List, thank you!

 

Unless I'm mistaken (not uncommon), the Sledge is 1 part. That surprised me.

 

What I see in this thread: many people could care less; many people care alot. That said I think this is a very basic question which should be addressed in the first paragraph of any review. Like: is this digital or analog?

 

I didn't even know about the Alesis A6 Andromeda. Used prices are not going down on that one.

 

One the other hand, you can get any flavor of Virus TI for between 1k and 1400. Many for sale.

 

I'm scrathing my head about which would be the best foot print for me: I hear the keys are really outstanding on the 61. It's little if any more. The Polar looks great as does the desktop. Aside from keys I think functionality is same, no?

 

The ubiquity of DAWs in today's world means you can just multitrack one synth as much as you want.

Not live. Multitrack aint the same thing.

 

My beloved (but not owned) Genos has 32 parts, but hard to use I guess.

Genos Multi Timbral Rant

 

Now I'm gonna watch a bunch of video on the Alesis A6 Andromeda!

Great conversation, thanks for many interesting replies.

 

PS: My main project right now is seeing what the JV1010 can really do with multiple parts. I want to hear a GM score. Had to go in closet to get XP laptop just to get in there. But it has all kinds of ways to be tweaked per part, on the fly. Many routable CCs. It seems nobody ever did make a great Multi-Timbral controller, or........tell it to me :) But luckily I have Akai MPC 1000 w/JJos in the mix. It will change banks and programs as a sequence event, per track. 64 tracks in unlimited note sequence. It will reroute CC on the fly per channel. HUGE. Fairly new feature for my 2003 best in class sequencer.

 

I'm not attracted to the DAWs, I have logic in case I need it for something, and mainstage. But working on basic stuff in Logic is often far more complex than one would think, MIDI and control surfaces in general. Being tied to a Laptop that get updates is not sane. I bet Catalina cost a Billion in lost productivity, at least. I'm still on Sierra for most machines here. I'm finally warming to High Sierra LOL.

 

Watch how players keep their beloved old stuff going.....scuzzy anyone? I love it.

 

The technology industries freedom to drop support of hardware without code release for alternatives is a scandal, both morally and environmentally. Try to find a browser for your 32-bit computer. What a waste.

 

 

RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, 

SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2

Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4

MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals

Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. 

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