Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

3 day counter to Behringer bomb drop...


Recommended Posts

Pots and the front panel are what kill you. Resistors, capacitors, and semiconductors (usually) are pretty cheap. Once you get into anything remotely mechanical it gets annoyingly expensive.

 

I was all set to design/build my own mixer. Looked at the Allen & Heath ZED14, counted the pots, looked up pricing, and bought the damned A&H. It was less to buy the ZED14 than it was going to cost me to buy the pots alone (at least at sale pricing).

 

Grey

I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 63
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

I, for one, am very excited. Price point has been the main thing keeping me from jumping into modular, and this with their new case should be a good way for me to get started. Take some of the simple modules I know I'll need from this line and then get a few more exciting ones to go with it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure you can make an exciting module to sell for $100. All the gee whiz Euro stuff that does ambience clusters and time splitting and physical modelling are big modules with lots of computing power and many knobs. These things sell for many times that.

 

But I'll bet they can make the bread and butter modules - osc, filt, envelope, vca - for that. I would expect a step sequencer to run higher.

Moe

---

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering that electronic types and tinkerers have been building modular synths from kits for years, I'm not surprised Behringer can do the same thing a lot cheaper. They are the Wal-Mart of MI (musical instruments). :laugh::cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has anyone found pricing on this yet? My first thought - like everyone else, I'd guess - how much to build a full System 55?

 

Yes, you are not alone in asking that. :cool:

 

I guess, to kick the conversation further down the road .... Peter Kirn has some observations which dovetail closely with Mate Stubb's insight that at some point (once you have the characterful modules like the filter, filter bank, etc.) you are going to get more utility from modern Eurorack modules to finish out your system. Peter Kirn suggests we are looking at well into four figures for a decent system. This makes sense to me, even if you multiply $50-$100 by the number of modules you would need. This website mentions seeing a price of 89 euros, though I imagine there will be variability between modules.

 

Once we spec that system out, we may find that the Moog Grandmother and Matriarch are actually cost-effective hubs for such a system, providing many of the "character" modules already. In effect, Moog has already positioned themselves centrally with these two products, forcing the Behringer Eurorack invasion to somewhat nibble around the edges. By contrast, I imagine that demand for Mother 32 and DFAM types of products will be hit pretty hard. This is not to discount the huge general impact Behringer is having on Moog, DSI and the Eurorack eco-sphere. Even the Behringer Modular skiff (case) is making big waves by lowering costs considerably for musicians.

 

Just my $0.02. What do you think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Moog's limited edition reissue of the System 35 is $22,000 for 22 modules.

 

If a Behringer Eurorack approximation of a similarly-spec'd system comes in around $2000, I would presume there will be some takers who will see this as "a good enough approximation for mere mortals".

 

 

..
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I didn't see that coming, and neither did Google News apparently (in reference to my post earlier this week). Among other things, I'm surprised at Behringer's hard commitment to the Eurorack module format - at the expense of other products vintage synth lovers have been waiting for (like the UB-Xa).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly don't really "get" the modular craze, and primarily because I likely don't know of music that was done with it. Or rather, I probably do know a lot of music that uses it, but don't know that it's modular is a better way to say it :D

 

Don't tell me, and I won't google, because I do NOT need more things that I want to buy! I already have a full list!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eurorack is huge, no doubt about it. But it's one of those trends that while I fully report and respect, I have practically NEGATIVE interest in...

 

..."interest" is probably not the right word. I think it would be extremely unhealthy for me at this point in my musical career. 15 years ago, I would have been all over this shit. I think I started dreaming up something similar at one point (as we probably all have). A modular, piecemeal system that can be stitched together according to your individual needs? Yes! But along the way I realized something: I'm a keyboard player, not a "producer" (in the millennial sense). Hands on ivories. Yeah, I love twisting nobs and doing weird shit, but I'm mostly about "one key equals one note" performance. I don't want to run the risk of nob twiddling overshadowing my keyboard performance. Eurorack doesn't look like a great solution to a performer like me, who believes that music begins and ends with a group of people playing together on stage.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this. 20-year-old me is crying right now.

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought someone in the industry told me last year that the Euro-Rack craze was dying down -- maybe because it is so hard to regularize and normalize the voltage requirements of such a wide variety of modules and their needs (though some use several slots, akin to effects pedals that need two cables for the pedal board, and some host racks do a better job than others regarding voltage availability, regulation, and distribution).

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1,

Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whoa.

 

Has anyone found pricing on this yet? My first thought - like everyone else, I'd guess - how much to build a full System 55?

 

Well, let's speculate. Say $50 for small stuff like mixers, attenuators, stuff like that, and $100 for main modules, excepting sequencer and fixed filter bank.

 

Here's a standard configuration Moog 55 module complement (asterisk indicates Behringer equivalent has been spotted in the vids) along with speculated price:

 

main cab top row

2 - 921A VCO driver* ($200)

6 - 921B VCO* ($600)

1 - 921 VCO* ($100)

1 - 995 triple atten* ($50)

1 - 903a random / noise* ($50)

1 - 994 mults* ($50)

1 - 960 sequencer* (who knows? call it $250)

1 - 962 seq. switch* ($100)

 

main cab bottom row

3 - cp3a control panel mix / mult / controller to osc assign* (normal switches in separate module) ($150)

1 - 961cp control panel seq interface* ($100)

1 - cp2 control panel lpf / hpf / mult / controller outputs* (omits normal switches) ($50)

1 - cp8a power switch* ($50 - does not include power supply)

 

top cab

1 - 914 fixed filter bank* (? lots of knobbage - say $150)

1 - 904b HPF* ($100)

1 - 904a LPF* ($100)

1 - 992 filter controller* ($50)

5 - 902 VCA* ($500)

5 - 911 EG* ($500)

1 - 911a dual trigger delay* ($50)

1 - 993 controller to VCA / EG ($50)

 

That comes to $3250 USD, plus you need a cabinet and power supply. I also don't see that they have addressed getting midi to control voltage / S-Trigger to the synth.

 

Still, it beats $22000.

Moe

---

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Moog's limited edition reissue of the System 35 is $22,000 for 22 modules.

 

If a Behringer Eurorack approximation of a similarly-spec'd system comes in around $2000, I would presume there will be some takers who will see this as "a good enough approximation for mere mortals".

 

It's a reasonable assumption and quite likely what Behringer is hoping. :thu:

 

The question is one of the size of the market segment given that a) Behringer is vastly cheaper than the Moog 35, b) Several boutique manufacturers with track records have already offered some of these modules at prices between Behringer and Moog, c) Eurorack format is unattractive to some Moog format purists who like more space and d) It's not turn-key: additional hardware (MIDI, USB, keyboard, etc.) will likely need to be purchased in any case to recreate the entire System 35 experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this point Behringer's pretty much sewn up the traditional Moog synths with the D and the modules. Personally, I feel that Moog (the company) missed a step by not issuing Eurorack versions of their modules years ago, but it's not my decision to make.

 

On the business side of things, I'm going to be keeping an eye on companies like synthesizers.com. They're going to get hit hard by the new Moog modules. I think they, too, should have released Euro versions of their gear but, like Moog, now it's too late.

 

I've noticed that many here seem deeply suspicious of the Euro stuff. Yes, the knobs are small and it's fiddly, but it's more fun than the law allows and as of late yesterday afternoon I finally nailed a sound I've been hearing in my head for a piece I'm working on--a sound that would literally be impossible on my Korg, Yamaha, or Hammond. The Voyagers and Little Phatty were only able to approximate it (although I got pretty close). With Euro modules, I got it. You've got more control with Euro because you've got more access to the functional blocks; you're not locked into someone else's flow chart. Would anyone else care if it was merely "almost right?" I don't know whether they would or not, but it matters to me.

 

Being an old school Moog kind of guy I will be taking a very close look at the Behringer Moog modules, but it sounds as though there are more in the works so I'll wait for a bit before building a Mini-Me clone of Emerson's rig.

 

Grey

I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

we may find that the Moog Grandmother and Matriarch are actually cost-effective hubs for such a system

That's what I think some may be missing about these systems... that they are not only available as dedicated worlds of their own (i.e. to build the equivalent of some version of a System 100 or a Model 55), but you should be able to use the modules to expand anything that has patch points. Even something like this, for example...

 

boogexp.jpg

 

 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Between the Behringer Moog modules and Arp 2600 reissue (whenever it finally actually drops), my wallet will likely be seriously annoyed with me. The Model D is the only piece of Behringer gear that I've ever owned, but I feel that it's fairly well built, especially at its price point and other than a firmware update glitch, it's been fun and sounds like the voice of a captive angel.

 

At some point Uli said something about their 2600 being a rack mount unit (6U, I think he said). Assuming that holds true, the knobs will probably still be tight, but if it sounds good I'll probably get one. The Moog modules are the kind of thing that I'll likely accumulate over time rather than buy all at once. The Roland 100s? I'll think about it. Maybe listen to some demos. I mean, really, I've only got so much physical space, you know?

 

Grey

I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mean, really, I've only got so much physical space, you know?

I hear that Behringer's working on an inflatable addition that adds 100 square feet to your dwelling. Target price $299.

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for the videos. :thu:

 

Lots of nice features. It would be good to know more about their pricing. It's worth noting that the Korg Arp 2600 (priced at $3900!) is completely sold out. Indications are that a slightly smaller mini version from Korg may also be released. So it seems that Behringer has some pricing room at the moment. Perhaps that's one reason to delay the pricing details?

 

At some point, Behringer's stated or unstated goal will want to shift from capturing a bigger piece of the analog synth pie, to increasing the size of the pie. The Neutron, which brings it own timbre to the party, might be something to expand from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...