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The resurgence of the rack mount / rack mountable desktop


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With the onslaught of keyboards and controllers hitting the market over the last few years. I wonder if we"ll see a return to rackable versions of synths, samplers, workstations, etc? Who has room for all these key"d devices?

 

Thoughts?

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Great thought, Elmer, especially with all these crappy cheap keyboards and mini keys for one finger 'players'!

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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First two that come to mind for me would be rackable desktop versions of the Kronos and the Wave 2.

 

Sequential and Behringer seem well aware. We can get desktop versions of the OB6, Prophet 6, 12 and REV2. DM12, WASP, Model D, K2, Crave, Pro-1.

 

 

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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I use them to upgrade the sounds/features in a live situation. I have a Gemini desktop and use a Voce Midi Drawbar to control VB3-ii stored within the module. For quicker setups needed I'll just go with a Voce V5+/Vent and use the internal sounds of the Kurzweil, which are also very good; but the Gemini is the next step up in sound.

 

Pros: sound upgrade; my rig competes soundwise with anything out there today (in my view); I'm able to accomplish this without having to continually purchase/upgrade the keyboard itself, so it also is a cost effective solution.

 

Cons: Setup. Midi cables, power supplies, storing/unstoring these devices in their carrying cases during setup and during breakdown vs. sticking the keyboard in its case and being done. Also I put the Midi Drawbar/Voce V5 on the left side of the keyboard and the the gemini table top on the right side. Not all controllers have that kind of room to accompany this, mine does. But I'm out of space on the keyboard to add any more components. Troubleshooting is also a PIA; an example being that the organ doesn't work: Is it the midi cable? its audio output cable? power supply? Troubleshooting is more complex and usually done in a rush which can sometimes set my mood starting the gig if the troubleshooting is frustrating.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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The only thing would not be fond of are rack-mountable versions of complex board such as the Kronos, or Fantom, for which real time control is important to me on those specific boards.

Other than that, I would like to see a return (and upgrade) of things like the MOTIF rack, an updgraded Integra, etc..

 

Now then, I do use a quasi-rack mounted module in that my stage rig has moved to a new (2018) Mac Mini, that sits in the Sonnett Rackmac in my 3 unit rack, with my audio i/o and i/o panel.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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The only thing would not be fond of are rack-mountable versions of complex board such as the Kronos, or Fantom, for which real time control is important to me on those specific boards.

 

For stage use I share that concern as one who racks a bunch of modules with the intention of set-and-forget and remote control over MIDI.

 

On the other side of the coin, there are plenty of artists who place their rack in close proximity for real time control.

 

I'm not a fan of the tabletop format because racks are far more convenient. For tabletop units you have to plug in power, audio, and MIDI cables every time you set up for events; with racks, cabling is preconfigured and you only need MIDI, maybe audio cables and you have control over exterior cabling. Tabletop does have its applications, just not for me.

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The only thing would not be fond of are rack-mountable versions of complex board such as the Kronos, or Fantom, for which real time control is important to me on those specific boards.

.

 

I"m with you on this David but more for in-depth programming in the studio. It"s almost impossible to place a rack mount where the display( if it has one) is at eye level and you"re not constantly reaching with extended arm for lengthy periods. Plus working the controls on a vertical surface is just not as comfortable. Exception might be something like that OB-x clone referenced above that"s has plenty of knobs but even that I would want angled off a horizontal position.

 

For me rack mount stuff is better for effects which involve less interaction.

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I wonder if MIDI 2.0 could have an impact on this. Theoretically, a controller couple have a 2 way communication with a rack module and serve up a user interface on the controller that represents the module. Remember the slew of Editor/Librarian software for computers that had a database of everything out there and would talk sysex to all your modules? Seems to me MIDI 2.0 could make something like that possible in a hardware controller.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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Different age. We needed all that racked stuff in the 80 and 90 due to mono timbreal and voice and polyphony limitations. Now I run as many as 13 internal zones on one Kronos combi .... then comes the computers....

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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I wonder if MIDI 2.0 could have an impact on this. Theoretically, a controller couple have a 2 way communication with a rack module and serve up a user interface on the controller that represents the module. Remember the slew of Editor/Librarian software for computers that had a database of everything out there and would talk sysex to all your modules? Seems to me MIDI 2.0 could make something like that possible in a hardware controller.

 

IMO that ship has sailed. If a keyboard or rack can"t provide an adequate self contained interface then it might as well be a VST. Then again everything else is making a comeback so who knows?

 

Edit: Damn you CEB! :D

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Not me...I'm all software at home, and live I prefer to just use a keyboard with onboard sounds for symplicity. That said, I may plug my ipad into my modx to try to get better "analog" sounds, and could possibly consider a Peak or Rev2 desktop (but would prefer just getting the Rev2 keyboard--argh, but then I have 3 keyboards!...round and round I go....)

 

I bitterly regret selling my Virus, I really loved that keyboard and the keys-to-sound connection it had...and all the knobs. I surprised myself with how much on-the-fly tweaking I did live, it was really fun. Having a rack or desktop and especially one that I have to worry about existing onboard sounds (as I would if triggering from the modx) introduces more complexity that I'm not sure I want live.

 

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IMO that ship has sailed. If a keyboard or rack can"t provide an adequate self contained interface then it might as well be a VST. Then again everything else is making a comeback so who knows?

 

I think you missed my point. A rackmount module can have the perfect interface but it still requires that you have access to it on stage. That's why people prefer keyboard versions. If you can have a rack full of gear but put their respective interfaces on the keyboard in front of you for remote access, it solves that problem.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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IMO that ship has sailed. If a keyboard or rack can"t provide an adequate self contained interface then it might as well be a VST. Then again everything else is making a comeback so who knows?

 

I think you missed my point. A rackmount module can have the perfect interface but it still requires that you have access to it on stage. That's why people prefer keyboard versions. If you can have a rack full of gear but put their respective interfaces on the keyboard in front of you for remote access, it solves that problem.

 

Ah, you"re right- I missed your last statement. But isn"t this effectively the same as having extensive CC controls? You might need to make overlays for your controller :hitt: unless...you"re thinking about a new controller concept where you load a sysex file and it automatically maps your parameters and each control has an electronic scribble strip? I like where you"re going with this.

 

 

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MIDI 2.0 accounts for the device exchanging information upon connection to automatically make the assignments rather an having to read through a MIDI implementation and set it up manually. So potentially something like plugging into an organ module and the controller knows as soon as you plug it in what the drawbars on the controller need to be assigned to work properly with the module.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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I'm not understanding the last few posts...why can't you have your rack next to your keyboard? My Yamaha Motif XS Rack is fairly navigable. Not as knobby as a full keyboard, true, but it's not that bad, and if you use presets you can hop to things efficiently. The Behringer Model D--other than the knobs being smaller--is no worse than a Moog Model D for dialing in sounds. The Moog Voyager RME is virtually identical to the keyboard version. If the rack is on, say, your left side, then you reach left instead of forward. No biggie.

 

I'm sure I'm missing something, but I just don't see the problem. Are there rack pieces that are a PIA? Sure. Solution: Don't buy 'em. Others are easier to live with, so look at them instead. Choose wisely and you can potentially save some space and weight.

 

Grey

I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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MIDI 2.0 accounts for the device exchanging information upon connection to automatically make the assignments rather an having to read through a MIDI implementation and set it up manually. So potentially something like plugging into an organ module and the controller knows as soon as you plug it in what the drawbars on the controller need to be assigned to work properly with the module.

 

Guess I"m behind the curve with midi 2.0. Your example assumes the controller has drawbars. What if it only has knobs? Or sliders but only 8 of them? And if so and I don"t like how it assigned things can it be changed?

 

Or does the controller have to meet a specific set of requirements to be deemed compatible?

 

Edit: After more thought I"m getting the impression that this is similar to the recent Keyscape enhancement where they provide a number of real synths that are mapped to the virtual controls and you tell it which synth you want to use. Only instead of controlling Keyscape you"re controlling a hardware module.

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That was just an example that I thought would be easy to understand for people who are trying to figure out what I'm talking about. Obviously I'm still not connecting here.

 

As far as accessible rack modules onstage, maybe I'm the only keyboard player in the world who struggles to have enough soon in stage to put everything in an ideal spot and be able to menu dive and tweak rack modules live while playing, must just be a personal deficiency.

 

Ok just forget everything I have said, forget MIDI 2.0, forget everything you know about controllers.......

 

Imagine a world where there is a controller with your desired keybed, a touch screen, and a bunch of knobs, sliders, and buttons. Now pretend somewhere, someplace, there is a rack full of gear with a bunch of devices that each do certain things very well. Now imagine there is a magical cable that connects them and without spending hours doing a bunch of programming and setup, each manufacturer's desired interface and slider/knob/button assignment just happens and the display shows you what they would want you to see if you had the keyboard version of their module at your fingertips.

 

 

Edit: sorry, let me be less of an A-Hole and better explain how my organ example might work, which again is just one specific microcosm example for the sake of discussion. You plug in the cable. The module TELLS the controller it's an organ as well as it's MIDI implementation for the drawbars, V/C, Leslie, etc. the controller, knowing what's it has available in it's interface whether knobs, sliders, drawbars, menus, doesn't matter....has what it thinks is it's best way to interface as an organ controller and configures it's own interface automatically to control the module. This all happens by plugging in a cable between 2 well designed MIDI 2.0 devices.....theoretically. It's possible in the spec but up to manufacturers to take full advantage in their designs.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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I'm sure I'm missing something, but I just don't see the problem. Are there rack pieces that are a PIA?

 

Studio and stage use can be vastly different.

 

In my stage use, everything in the racks are set-and-forget, then remotely controlled from MIDI. There may be situations where the racks are off stage and not accessible.

 

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This is a familiar concept to me because in the industrial world we've been doing it since the 80s with even older technology. We have hundreds of manufacturers using the same old protocols. In our world, we have DD's, EDDL's, DTM's, EDS's, etc. you can google all those. Long story short is that the industrial equivalent of the MIDI foundation or whatever has a database of all the manufacturers who submit a standardized file for their device. Somebody buys some piece of software for their maintenance shop to service all of their field devices and it comes with all the DD's for every device ever created with that digital protocol. Plug it in, and it shows up just like the manufacturer wants it too, even if the software was made by their competitor. Open protocol. New device comes out, just go to the website and download the new descriptor free. Our equivilent would be the MIDI site. This is relatively easy stuff. Look up the HART foundation. We've been doing this in the industrial world with far worse technology for decades. Somebody can buy my competitor's software and hook it up to ny instrument and it will look exactly the way we want it to look - same as it would in our own software. That's 80s technology.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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There are limits to the amount of heat a rack device will tolerate to be produced, so the computers inside the rack units are going to have limits in terms of the compute power they can cool, which means less maximum clock speed compared with a desktop.

 

DSP or special chip based machines might not take as much power as a desktop synthesis or effect unit, but there too is a consideration about the maximum cooling when you put these electronics in a possibly unvented rack.

 

Putting the compute power in the cloud would be too much of a delay unless you're physically close to a data center and have quick network access, but your own little rack of computing should make sense.

 

Interfaces on rack unis nowadays should be remote controllable, logging in with X over ssh for instance, or some of the many existing remote desktop protocols shouldn;t be too much of a problem, preferably with a decent (separate from a audio network?) fast wired network.

 

T

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I would love to see a Nord Piano rack or small desktop module.

 

Funny, I had a dream recently where I was setting up gear and had borrowed some Nord stuff, and one of the things was a Nord Piano module that was about the size of a cable modem. Red of course!

 

 

Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1

Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6

www.bksband.com

www.echoesrocks.com

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Solaris by John Bowen has an 'XPander-ish' desktop. Big ass desk, and a 1U RackMount.

Selling my Solaris to fund one.

 

I love my K4 and MIDI.

Solaris 1U at NAMM tomorrow, coffin size desktop too.

 

Sonic Core manufactures 1HU Solaris and Bowen does the desktop.

Will Holger be @NAMM ?

 

Please do some pics from 1HU and desktop Solaris and let us know if the editor will be VST only or also a SCOPE device in addition.

 

Desktop plus 1HU expander for double polyphony might be killer.

I recognized 4-part MIDI multimode/multitimbrality was announced too ...

 

thx in advance

 

:)

 

A.C.

 

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