Which Windows DAW?

[Mike Warren]

no one using fl studio 20?

 

OK, I've been reading about FL Studio and it's MIDI file import function does not have an efficient workflow for me.

[Ulf]

My initial playing with Tracktion 7 is not yielding useful results, but I'll persevere for a while in case it's just because of my inexperience with it.

 

In what way? Are there features you are missing or do you not find your way around it? It definitely _is_ different from other DAWs (and that is why I like it).

[BbAltered]

[quote=Mike Warren

 

I'm finding limitations for the workflow i want within Cubase AI and am hoping Pro will be better. Most significant at this point is that getting a click track requires recording the hole thing in real time. Cakewalk also has this limitation.

 

 

Gee, I get near instant click tracks in CW and Reaper by taking any rhythmic loop of 4 - 32 beats (a drum loop for instance), loop-enabling the loop so it can adjust to the project tempo, and then copying that loop across the length of my project. Instant click-track. It takes me 60 seconds at most: the part that takes the longest is choosing which drum loop to use as a click.

 

[Mike Warren]

My initial playing with Tracktion 7 is not yielding useful results, but I'll persevere for a while in case it's just because of my inexperience with it.

 

In what way? Are there features you are missing or do you not find your way around it? It definitely _is_ different from other DAWs (and that is why I like it).

 

I use a DAW for the same things most people use them for; creating new music by recording audio and/or MIDI tracks, adding various processing and mixing the song. For this, pretty much any of the better DAWs will fine work for me. It's mostly down to getting the right plugins, of which I have a bunch.

 

However, I have 2 special requirements that other people also use DAWs, but are not so common. These 2 tasks are boring and I need to do them very often, so I need a very quick and reliable workflow.

 

Firstly, I need to be able to do the following (efficiency and reliability are key) :

 

1/ Load a commercial general MIDI file into the DAW and have it automatically load a reasonable quality GM VSTi to play the file. I don't want to manually load the plugin and then configure channels, patches etc. The file must now be in a state to play properly and sound at least as good as a commercial hardware MIDI file player would.

 

Of the DAWs I own:

â - Cakewalk bBL has this step covered well with TTS1.

X - Studio One Pro has a very poor sounding GM VSTi. I have been able to use TTS1 in Studio One, but the process of loading a MIDI file into it is more time consuming, particularly when the file size is larger.

â - Cubase AI does this reasonably well so I expect Cubase Pro will do this at least as well.

X - Samplitude Pro, I can't remember as I haven't had it installed for quite some time, but I know it failed for this task at some level.

 

I haven't been able to come up with a way of doing this easily in Tracktion 7 yet.

 

2/ Create an audio click track for the file. I don't want to have to record the whole track in real time.

 

Of the DAWs I own:

X - Cakewalk bBL requires real time recording of the track.

â - Studio One Pro does a render of the metronome in a couple of seconds.

X - Cubase AI requires real time recording of the track. I understand Cubase Pro will do a fast render, but I haven't confirned that yet

X - Samplitude Pro, I can't remember.

 

I haven't been able to come up with a way of doing this in Tracktion 7.

 

 

The other task I want to do often is take an audio file recorded without a click track, import it into the DAW and synchronise the project to the imported file. Not the other way around.

 

The best system for doing this was in a very old version of Cubase. I could just grab the bar lines and drag them left or right to match the beats of the imported file.

 

Modern DAWs all seem to want to do beat detection which is not always reliable, especially for files that don't have a distinctive beat. I'm keen to test Cubase Pro to see if the old process still works.

 

I haven't looked into this in Traction yet.

 

[Mike Warren]

I've just started to reinstall Samplitude X3 Pro so I can refresh my memory about what the issues were.

 

[felis]

I'm probably going to sound like an ass here, but I say just get Cubase and don't look back.

It sounds like you want it, are a bit familiar with it, and are going to end up with it anyways no matter how much time you waste auditioning other programs.

I've tried almost all of the majors a long time ago, but have stuck with Cubase for over 30 years now - since it was midi-only on an Atari.

 

Even if you pick something else, just use it, learn it, and put your focus there instead of spreading it around and losing the thread.

[Mike Warren]

Even if you pick something else, just use it, learn it, and put your focus there instead of spreading it around and losing the thread.

 

It's very important to me that I have an efficient and reliable process. The purpose of this thread was to hopefully get the experience of other people who are power users of various DAWs to tell me if they can do what I want.

 

It looks like I haven't been able to communicate my requirements well enough so am having to do a lot of my own experimentation.

 

[KuruPrionz]

My initial playing with Tracktion 7 is not yielding useful results, but I'll persevere for a while in case it's just because of my inexperience with it.

 

The third item on the top row of the home page is Training, that provides access to Manuals, Videos, Support and User Forums. https://www.tracktion.com

Much of this will still work in Tracktion 7 but there have been some big upgrades by the time you get to Waveform 10. It may be worth taking a look in these areas to see if what you need is covered.

Cheers, Kuru.

[hardware]

I really like Pyramix mostly because of its quality of mix down in the box.

They steal a core from your CPU and bypass the excessive permissions Windows requires.

That"s suppose to really helpful for insane IMAX and other high fidelity 192k type of recordings.

It"s not really noticeable until you start doing 64 channel mix downs but I merge for old double tracking to avoid perfect digital ADT FX.

As far as MIDI goes I still stay on Cubase SX2.

The best Ritardando and Accelerando control for me.

 

I did use SAW Studio for years which is much like Pyramix for mixdown fidelity, but Pyramix is just heavenly for me.

[Theo Verelst]

It might be Timidity could do your main job of rendering an acceptable audio file from any midi input file, as a batch program. I don't know if there's a windows version, and you'd have to make some script for click track, advantage: it's free.

 

T

[Mike Warren]

My Steinberg eLicenser finally arrived yesterday. (Ordering just before Christmas was not a smart move).

 

I spent a few hours with the Cubase Pro 10.5 trial last night, and it will do the tasks I want.

 

Cubase Pro crossgrade is available at a discount price, so I'll be pulling the trigger as soon as I've done enough testing to satisfy myself it's stable on my system. There are a number of people complaining about bugs in 10.5.

 

 

[Mike Warren]

 

The other task I want to do often is take an audio file recorded without a click track, import it into the DAW and synchronise the project to the imported file. Not the other way around.

 

The best system for doing this was in a very old version of Cubase. I could just grab the bar lines and drag them left or right to match the beats of the imported file.

 

Modern DAWs all seem to want to do beat detection which is not always reliable, especially for files that don't have a distinctive beat. I'm keen to test Cubase Pro to see if the old process still works.

 

 

Cubase Pro is very good for this.

 

It still has the old method of dragging bars and beats (Warp Grid), plus tempo detection (which is as unreliable as the other DAWs with this feature), but I was able to get acceptable results from a couple of files by editing the tempo detection.

 

[Jazzmammal]

Man, is this ever a long, sad thread. Typical when it concerns DAW's. They all suck, they're all wonderful depending on who you talk to. You wrote something about there not being very many users here who can help you. The reason for that is your first requirement is having the DAW automatically load in a GM synth. Nobody cares about GM, it's only used by people who are emailing SMF midi files around and every Windows PC has the built in Wavetable GM synth so anybody in the world can play it. Otherwise nobody cares. EXCEPT..

 

For me and pretty much everybody who uses Band in a Box, Real Band or Power Tracks Pro Audio by PG Music. I've been a beta tester for them for 15 years and Power Tracks does exactly what you want for $49 I believe. First ,it lets you select a default midi synth so if it's the TTS-1 one for example that stays locked in even after closing the program. Open it up, import a new midi file it automatically maps the instruments to individual tracks and the TTS-1 is there. If you've found a Type 0 midi online and import that it asks you if you want to separate each part to individual tracks and it will do it. It handles most VST's so you still have full control over each track to apply a different synth if you want. PT is also a pretty good midi editor, it has automatic midi chord detection which you can go in and correct, it has fully editable notation which you can use to print either a two handed piano score or a fakebook type chart. It allows you to transpose various instruments like a sax or trombone so it prints correctly for the player.

 

Second, it has the Audio Chord Wizard. Open your file up in the ACW and in addition to detecting the chords in a audio file which is pretty cool by itself, it's very quick and easy to line up the beats in the audio file to the bar grid in PT. So, yes you're creating a tempo map that forces PT to follow your file.

 

Downsides, the biggest one is it only has 48 tracks. Power DAW users can use up that many tracks just for drums and percussion comps or a string section but it sounds to me like that's not you. If you're into notation that function along with printing it out is not close to the big notation programs but it's still pretty useful. Next it's a 32 bit only program but they sell JBridge for 10 bucks and it works perfectly if you need to use a 64 bit plugin. If you don't know this, this has nothing to do with you having a 64 bit OS or not. Any 64 bit PC will run 32 bit programs perfectly, it's only the plugins that require a bridge. If you want to know more just ask or PM me because $50 is a whole lot less than whatever Cubase Pro costs. I can tell you more than you'll probably ever want to know about the program. Oh, and PG doesn't use demo versions. You buy the program and they have a 30 day money back guarantee and they're located in Canada. I've never heard of them reneging on their guarantee.

 

Bob

[Mike Warren]

Thanks for the reply Bob.

 

I remember looking into Power Tracks many years ago because it was so cheap, and it would certainly be a contender if cost was a deciding factor.

 

I am a DAW power user. I was just after something that would do all the normal stuff, but is also the most efficient for these couple of boring tasks I have to do often. I've been doing this stuff since the late 80s, and PC based MIDI/audio recording since 94.

 

I really should have got Pro Tools for some of the stuff I do, but I'll just keep exporting stems for those few occasions.

 

I've now spent quite a few hours with the Cubase Pro trial and have actually started to do some real work with it. It has only crashed on me once, while using Grid Warp. This was while I was getting used to how it works so I was dragging things madly all over the place. I haven't been able to duplicate the crash. And so far I haven't observed anything else weird with it.

 

I'm actually finding it very intuitive to use. If Steinberg didn't require purchasing a dongle just for a trial I would have brought it years ago. Now I have 4 dongles I'm going to get a small hub so I can just transfer one device for the occasional times i need to go portable.

 

[Doc Tonewheel]

I started out with Opcode (which went belly up) on a Mac and then moved to Cakewalk on PC. Long time user here from the first Cakewalk all the way to SONAR Platinum. Upgraded to WIndows 10 and finally bit the bullet and said good bye to SONAR. I spent a lot of time looking at all the other DAWs and finally settled on Cubase Pro 10.5. I was able to get it all set up and start recording and using VSTs within a short time and I'm even using an old audio Firewire interface (Onyx 400F). Works great with the Arturia KeyLab mkII connected via USB. Cubase had all the functions I needed. No crashes so far and I like the work flow. I am now starting to look for a new audio interface though, as Mackie no longer supports the Onyx with driver updates.

[Jim Alfredson]

Check out Steinberg's own interfaces, Doc. They are built like tanks and sound great. Designed and built by Yamaha.

[Bill Heins]

Back to the scene of the crime

 

So anyways last year Steinberg had an anniversary sale and the crossgrade from Sonar Platinum to Cubase Pro 10 was too good to pass by so I didn't I've been using Cubase ever since and I'm really enjoying it!

 

A little tip, if any of you are using Cubase and want a pretty decent free controller using your tablet or phone check out this- https://www.avid.com/products/avid-control It works great on my Samsung tablet...haven't tried it on the phone, I assume it works the same only smaller

 

1. Sign up for an account

2. Go to your app store of choice and d/l and install Avid Control

3. Go to your Avid account and d/l and install the Eucon software for your PC or Mac

4. Run the app on your portable device and then setup the Eucon software on your computer... that's it!

Read the manual for better instructions but it's easy to setup and get running. Avid Control will work with any Eucon enabled DAW ,and Cubase integrates really well.

 

Good Luck,

Bill

[Doc Tonewheel]

Thanks Jim and Bill! Was looking at the Steinberg UR816C since I added a USB 3.0 port.

[Mike Warren]

Was looking at the Steinberg UR816C since I added a USB 3.0 port.

 

Most (probably all) USB 3 interfaces just use USB 2 over the USB 3 connection so will work just as well on a USB 2 port. USB 2 is fast enough for even 30 to 40 channels at 96kHz, 24 bit. More at lower rates.