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How to make good songwriting again


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On a side discussion along with how to make music listenable again, good songwriting certainly contributes to that.

 

So let's debate good songwriting. Exclude elements such as quality of the mix, the tools used (gear, software, plugins, etc), distribution channels, any technology, image of the artist(s), how clever the chords progressions are, how cool the solos are.

 

Strip songwriting down to its bare organic form. Melody, rhythm, lyrics.

 

There's plenty of "musicians' music" out there that appeals to musicians. I'm talking about songs that appeal to the masses. The right combination appeals to the masses. Certainly the quality of the singer(s) adds to the appeal - would Styx, Crosby Stills & Nash, or the Beatles had been successful without their unique voices?

 

You can make music with mass appeal without lyrics. Look at most classical music. Would Mozart's music had been popular without Eine Kleine Nachtmusic? Jazz has been successful for Louis Armstrong, Benny Goodman, Duke Ellington, plenty of others. In the case of those artists, talent no doubt was a big contributor but it wouldn't had happened without THE SONG.

 

How do we make good songwriting again? What makes a GOOD song?

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I think one important element is not falling into chord progression ruts, and have unexpected changes. There's more to life than I - IV - V, although I must admit Buddy Holly got a lot of mileage out of it :)

 

Something that has really helped me with songwriting, even though it involves technology, is the Harmonic Editing option in Studio One. If you're not familiar with it, you can do something like play a chord progression on guitar, and it generates a chord track.

 

The way this affects my songwriting is that I can do a spur-of-the-moment chord progression, but then go back and add unexpected elements...like "What would it sound like if I went to the relative minor here instead?" When you change that, all the instruments change along so you can hear the difference.

 

But I also think it's important to strike a balance between simplicity and variations. You don't want to go in too many directions, and you do want a solid foundation...but within that foundation, you want to keep the listener at least a little bit surprised at what comes next.

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There's also an element that I believe defies explanation. There are some songs that bring tears to my eyes, no matter how many times I've heard them. "Time after Time" is one of them, so is Frankie Moreno's "Biggest Fan." But that doesn't mean anyone else will react in the same way.
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There's also an element that I believe defies explanation. There are some songs that bring tears to my eyes, no matter how many times I've heard them. "Time after Time" is one of them, so is Frankie Moreno's "Biggest Fan." But that doesn't mean anyone else will react in the same way.

 

More to life than I-IV-V indeed. Sometimes the chord progression alone can strike a nerve. Bonnie Raitt "I Can't Make You Love Me" and Sarah McLachlin "Angel" hit me every time.

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Love the topic!

 

Someone once said to me "Music is Art and Art is creation and release of Tension." There are many ways to do this, lyrics, chords, tempo, breaks etc. When the Story aligns with the T & R it is compelling.

 

I also feel that the Story is primary. A good story will be timeless and there are an infinite variety of ways to tell a good story.

I like a succinct lyric. Metaphors can be effective, they can also be cliche or incomprehesible "In and around the lake, mountains come out of the sky and they stand there" from Roundabout by Yes means absolutely nothing to me. And we've all heard the "river", "rain", "sunshine" etc. cliches ad nauseum.

 

Chords are there to serve the song, I usually write a story/lyric first and find something to support it. A recent side project had me searching for one chord songs:

 

And 2 chord songs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1oyvAMtFsk

 

Here is a masterpiece example of using tempo to create tension and release:

 

There is much that can be done with very little.

 

Recently I was polishing up a song. I'd written most of it years ago and suddenly a lyric for the bridge came to me. Then I found a passing chord that really enhanced the vocal melody in the verses.

Now it is ready to record.

 

Just my 2 cents, there is more than one way to skin a cat (and more than one cat that needs skinning.) Cheers, Kuru

 

 

 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I went for a haircut yesterday. The woman who cut my hair is called Fran, and her partner, Tracey, happened to be there as well

 

We got talking about music and I mentioned that I write songs. Fran then told me that Tracey is a singer/songwriter/guitarist, and gave me a link to her Soundcloud page

 

I had a listen and was very impressed. And guess what? They both live in the same street as me! Small world

 

Here's a song from Tracey's Soundcloud page. I think it's a very good example of how to write and record a song

 

Little Wheels

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I recently read a blog email from Ethan Iverson (formerly pianist in the Bad Plus) referring to what someone labeled the 4 B's of songwriting - the Beach Boys, the Beatles, Burt Bacharach, and the Brazilians (presumably Jobim and others). I've learned and continue learning Beatles and Bacharach songs. I just learned "Alfie" (playing piano and singing) this last week. These songs are also assets for solo gigging.

 

Seems to me that good songwriting straddles familiar (cliche) and surprise. One thing B's that I play and study (Beatles and Burt) do is add an extra beat in a phrase, or sometimes and extra 3 beats or something similar. "Revolution" , "Don't Let Me Down", "I Say A Little Prayer". Their songs usually are harmonically straightforward except for something unusual added to the progression. The Beatles very often used interesting chord voicings.

 

I listened to Tracy's "Little Wheels" - there was nothing unexpected musically (I'm not a lyrics person unfortunately). I understand they labeled it "Folk" but throwing in a clever invented hook can perk thinks up and reduce predictability. No unkindness intended, just using an example. BTW I believe the Beatles were masterful in creating hooks.

 

I want to write songs. I attempted to collaborate with a friend who's a retired college academic. She speaks fluent French (taught it) and does the NYT crossword puzzle with a pen. She knows words. But lyrics are more akin to poetry. I do "Old Man River". I think it's from 1926. I marvel at the line "I get weary / and sick of trying / I'm tired of living / And scared of dying". I also marvel at Hal David's lyrics in Burt's music.

 

 

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I recently read a blog email from Ethan Iverson (formerly pianist in the Bad Plus) referring to what someone labeled the 4 B's of songwriting - the Beach Boys, the Beatles, Burt Bacharach, and the Brazilians (presumably Jobim and others). I've learned and continue learning Beatles and Bacharach songs. I just learned "Alfie" (playing piano and singing) this last week. These songs are also assets for solo gigging.

 

Seems to me that good songwriting straddles familiar (cliche) and surprise. One thing B's that I play and study (Beatles and Burt) do is add an extra beat in a phrase, or sometimes and extra 3 beats or something similar. "Revolution" , "Don't Let Me Down", "I Say A Little Prayer". Their songs usually are harmonically straightforward except for something unusual added to the progression. The Beatles very often used interesting chord voicings.

 

I listened to Tracy's "Little Wheels" - there was nothing unexpected musically (I'm not a lyrics person unfortunately). I understand they labeled it "Folk" but throwing in a clever invented hook can perk thinks up and reduce predictability. No unkindness intended, just using an example. BTW I believe the Beatles were masterful in creating hooks.

 

I want to write songs. I attempted to collaborate with a friend who's a retired college academic. She speaks fluent French (taught it) and does the NYT crossword puzzle with a pen. She knows words. But lyrics are more akin to poetry. I do "Old Man River". I think it's from 1926. I marvel at the line "I get weary / and sick of trying / I'm tired of living / And scared of dying". I also marvel at Hal David's lyrics in Burt's music.

 

 

The 4 B's are good reference points.

 

I will add The Canadians - Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell, Robbie Robertson and Neil Young.

 

And I will go "rogue" and simply name off some of my favorite writers. Bob Dylan, Lucinda Williams, Guy Clark, Laura Nyro, Pete Townshend, Ray Davies, I could go on.

Then there are the curators - Emmylou Harris is a fine songwiter in her own right but also chooses excellent material for her albums by other great songwriters.

 

Lots of great songs from Motown (Holland Dozier Holland0, the Rolling Stones, Willie Nelson, Billie Holiday...

 

Great songwriting is not just about being "clever" - Folsom Prison Blues is a great song "I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die."

I've played that song hundreds if not thousands of times and that line is just as real as it gets.

 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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But lyrics are more akin to poetry.

 

Lyrics can also cover a wide range...fiction, non-fiction, literal, figurative, plays on words, words as sounds...I also think of lyrics as not too dissimilar from artwork. Some art creates an impression without being literal, while something like a photograph is quite literal.

 

My song lyrics straddle the line between literal and figurative, or as I like to say, they're "based on a true story." I try to create lyrics where the listener can attach their own interpretation. For example one of my new songs is called "Perfect Moment" and it's about how we all look for that perfect moment. But, it never specifies what the perfect moment is, so it gives the listeners some room to put themselves into the song.

 

I'm also finding more and more that I can get away with fewer words. Sometimes just a word pair gets an idea across, a sentence isn't necessary.

 

Also, I spend a lot of time editing lyrics - unfortunately I'm not a first-draft writer, nor am I one of those people who has a complete song pop out. I use placeholder lyrics a lot so I can establish a melody line, and as the song takes shape, I go back and edit individual lines until they make sense.

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I've let more ideas slip away than I care to consider. You think of something, sing it a few times while driving and feel certain you will remember it. Next thing you know you have no idea what your idea was!

 

So I keep a pen/pencil and a small notepad or a folded piece of paper with me at all times. I once wrote 2 verses and a bridge on the roof of my car in some strip mall parking lot.

They came to me and they were good. I already had a first verse and then I had a song. Ideas don't "escape" anymore. Some of you may prefer to use your phone for a recorder. Whatever works, document your ideas!!!

 

I've learned to allow myself to create freely and not edit as I go. That can halt the process. Yes, you may write something of little or no value, it may even be embarrassing. Fine, LET IT HAPPEN!!! You can always ignore it later if you let it live. If you kill it as you write it you might miss writing something good when you are in the flow. It took me a longer time to learn that than it should have, I am commited to it now and more gets done.

 

Also, I'd like to add Chrissie Hynde of the Pretenders and Warren Zevon (Werewolves of London) to my all-time favorite songwriters list. Both are excellent, unique writers.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I don't think you can boil good song writing down to a simple formula. Different elements make for a good song depending on the song. For one, it may be a lyric, for another, an interesting chord progression or structure, for yet another, a strong hook or unique sound. At the end of the day, people just have to end up liking it. That's why it's art and not just paint by numbers.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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I keep a blank sheet of staff paper at the office at work when those moments of inspiration strike. They often happen during the workday!

 

The memo recorder has always been a great tool when you're away from pencil and paper. Especially mobile devices!

 

Every time some non-musician yankee slicker abstracts songwriting to a formula it becomes a genre that is genre that is eventually despised. Look at Disco. Some beancounter figured out that any song with kick-snare-kick-snare on every quarter note and octave playing on bass at exactly 120BPM was a guaranteed pot of gold. They pressured EVERY recording artist to adhere to this formula, EVERY TV show had it, EVERY movie had it, you heard that pattern EVERYWHERE. It quickly became a hated genre by the masses.

 

My intention of this discussion was not to whittle songwriting down to a formula. It was to identify techniques - standard and unorthodox - that make a good song. As an example, Peter Gabriel writes great songs yet they are non-formulaic and often employ unique techniques.

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I don't think you can boil good song writing down to a simple formula..

 

I think all the attempts to have computers compose music are proof enough that's a true statement. Even if you have a sophisticated enough program to go through gigabytes of music, analyze, and create something similar, it's not going to be the same as something a human writes, based on an experience or feel. Even a composer as supposedly "mathematical" as Bach can't be reduced to a formula, which is obvious when you listen to computer experiments aimed at creating "new" Bach music. Maybe someday...but I doubt it.

 

That said, though, there are certain elements that can improve a song...for example, on one of my recent songs, it was better when it started with the chorus. That doesn't mean starting with the chorus is the formula to writing a better song, but it does mean I'll try it in the future if an intro doesn't feel right.

 

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I agree that there is no single formula.

I don't even know where songs come from. More than once I've gotten up at 3 am and written down what ended up being a significant chunk of a song.

 

When I say that, I am not implying that others should also get up at 3 am and start writing.

 

So I will continue to elaborate on things that I do and I would love to hear how others go about it. Every method could become a "tool" in the toolbox, no?

As an example, I am working with a friend and she writes by strumming on a guitar and just letting words come out, singing. When she's done she tries to remember them and write them down.

That works for her, it's not something I've done much. I have "orchestras" in my head, I can hear without playing. Some people may have something like that (it is a difficult thing to put precisely into words) and others not so much. It is not a requirement for songwriting, nor do I tell people to try and do that, it either happens or it doesn't.

 

Many of my songs are influenced by life's little stories or a news article but I don't feel bound to "reality" and don't hesitate to just make stuff up.

In that sense, I am a practiced and compulsive iiar. I'll own it, a blessing and a curse.

 

Others may write what is real to them or just plain real "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" is pretty much a news story, true?

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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