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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: rogs] #3027346 02/03/20 03:45 PM
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So does that mean the YC61 key width is the same as the MODX7/MX61? I returned an MX61 because of the reduced key width, so this might be a dealbreaker for me if it is...

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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: ajstan] #3027363 02/03/20 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ajstan
Does the Studiologic Numa Compact 2x count?

Ah, yes, I forgot the NC2 and 2X!


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: John Salazar] #3027769 02/06/20 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by John Salazar
So does that mean the YC61 key width is the same as the MODX7/MX61?..

Certainly looks like it..... I would have been surprised if it has full size Yamaha 'piano' keys -- and, as I say, using Yamaha's own photos the keys certainly seem to measure out at 160mm (159mm) per octave, and not 164mm.


Last edited by rogs; 02/06/20 12:55 AM.
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: rogs] #3027965 02/07/20 03:37 PM
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Well that's a damn shame then... Was looking forward to grabbing one. If Yamaha wanted to replicated an organ as close as possible, you'd think they'd at the very least match key size as well. On the bright side, hearing this made me look into some other options and it looks like a Crumar Mojo 61 paired with an iPad can do what the YC61 can do (and sound better in my opinion) at basically the same price. The added weight and lack of internal audio interface is kind of a bummer though.

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: John Salazar] #3027971 02/07/20 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by John Salazar
On the bright side, hearing this made me look into some other options and it looks like a Crumar Mojo 61 paired with an iPad can do what the YC61 can do (and sound better in my opinion) at basically the same price.


The YC61 may beat out the Mojo for cut-ability. Judging from comments I have read here and elsewhere, the Mojo's (and VB3's) Achilles Heel may be that it can tend to get buried, lost in a dense mix etc. I've had Nord, Ham-Suz and now an HX3 module and never a problem with that (also got a Mojo classic a couple of months ago, for playing at home, have not yet gigged with it). Anyway, for most of us that's an important consideration, I would think.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: John Salazar] #3027973 02/07/20 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by John Salazar
Well that's a damn shame then... Was looking forward to grabbing one. If Yamaha wanted to replicated an organ as close as possible, you'd think they'd at the very least match key size as well. On the bright side, hearing this made me look into some other options and it looks like a Crumar Mojo 61 paired with an iPad can do what the YC61 can do (and sound better in my opinion) at basically the same price. The added weight and lack of internal audio interface is kind of a bummer though.


You'd think so - however, it's not surprising, as this has been their practice with synth actions for many generations of instruments.
Does anyone have inside information on the logic behind the decision?
Could it really be much of a cost savings in manufacturing?
4mm for each of 61 keys - that's 244mm or 9.6 inches.
Yeah, I guess shaving 9 and a half inches shaved off of the case and keys makes it a smaller, lighter, cheaper instrument.
Why else do it?

How does it affect, play? Probably not much - we see people play great things on mini keys like the reface YC.
But if you don't care for it - perfectly understandable to pass on the YC61, Montage, MODX, etc.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3027979 02/07/20 05:16 PM
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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: pinkfloydcramer] #3028000 02/07/20 07:09 PM
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From what I've heard in Mojo demos on youtube and such, to me it sounds like the closest replica a gospel B3 organ. With that said, if a normal church B3 can cut through a mix decently well, I would think that the Mojo could do the same. But even if this isn't the case, and cutting through a mix was a major problem, I'm thinking controlling the Hammond B-3X app through an iPad could remedy this. But I doubt it would get that severe though. (And in all honesty I think I'd be playing the rhodes patch slightly more than the organ patch on gigs anyway...)

Last edited by John Salazar; 02/07/20 07:11 PM.
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3028004 02/07/20 07:20 PM
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Yeah, I really don't know what Yamaha is thinking with this. It has to be cost, but is it worth it? They lost me with this decision, that's for sure. If you had to pick between thinner synth keys vs regular organ key width, I feel like the choice would be rather obvious for the vast majority of players...I can't see anyone picking the thin keys given the choice. The inch of overall instrument length and 1 or 2 pounds of weight saved by having thinner keys is basically moot (especially more so when you remember that you are saving about 400 lbs on a regular organ).

Last edited by John Salazar; 02/07/20 07:20 PM.
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: John Salazar] #3028015 02/07/20 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by John Salazar
From what I've heard in Mojo demos on youtube and such, to me it sounds like the closest replica a gospel B3 organ. With that said, if a normal church B3 can cut through a mix decently well, I would think that the Mojo could do the same. But even if this isn't the case, and cutting through a mix was a major problem, I'm thinking controlling the Hammond B-3X app through an iPad could remedy this. But I doubt it would get that severe though. (And in all honesty I think I'd be playing the rhodes patch slightly more than the organ patch on gigs anyway...)



Just an FYI I had a lot of problems with a Mojo cutting through the mix front of house.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3028031 02/07/20 10:54 PM
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Elmer,I think they're talking about 4mm per octave not per key. A 5 octave keyboard downsized by over 9 inches would be wildly excessive. Still,Yamaha should use standard sized keys on this thing.

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: pinkfloydcramer] #3028041 02/08/20 01:16 AM
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yea , i have to agree , the mojo sounded great through phones , but on stage , even through a 3300 , it had no guts in a full band setting , the hx3 in an UHL organ has no such problems , the legend organ had problem either . i have to ad , the mojo sounds fantastic through a 3300 but as soon as the band cranks up the bottom end is mostly gone . not sure why that is , but it is , so i cant use it .

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Pa Gherkin] #3028047 02/08/20 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Pa Gherkin
Elmer,I think they're talking about 4mm per octave not per key. A 5 octave keyboard downsized by over 9 inches would be wildly excessive. Still,Yamaha should use standard sized keys on this thing.


This. When I’ve had Yamaha unweighted keyboards in the past it was just under an inch for 5 octaves. Still silly...but not THAT silly.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Sam Mullins] #3028049 02/08/20 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam Mullins
Originally Posted by Pa Gherkin
Elmer,I think they're talking about 4mm per octave not per key. A 5 octave keyboard downsized by over 9 inches would be wildly excessive. Still,Yamaha should use standard sized keys on this thing.


This. When I’ve had Yamaha unweighted keyboards in the past it was just under an inch for 5 octaves. Still silly...but not THAT silly.


Thanks for that. I haven’t owned a Yamaha unweighted action. But I have played the DX7, SY99, EX5, and Montage often enough and have to say Yamaha has made really nice feeling semi weight synth action over the years - but only on their top tier models. I’ve never noticed the 4mm per octave shaving until I learned about it a few years ago on this forum. Personally, it’s not a deal breaker for me - but that doesn’t mean I don’t wonder why the heck they do it.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Pa Gherkin] #3028054 02/08/20 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Pa Gherkin
Still,Yamaha should use standard sized keys on this thing.


Bad Mister @ YamahaSynth: „ The new YC61 has neither a piano action, nor does it have an action like the MX61.
Also, contrary to Internet conspiracies, there is no ‘standard piano key width’.“

😉


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3028077 02/08/20 01:59 PM
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I believe the correct term is “width challenged”.

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3028078 02/08/20 02:18 PM
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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3028085 02/08/20 04:27 PM
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Wright!

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Manolios] #3028123 02/08/20 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Manolios
Originally Posted by Pa Gherkin
Still,Yamaha should use standard sized keys on this thing.


Bad Mister @ YamahaSynth: „ The new YC61 has neither a piano action, nor does it have an action like the MX61.
Also, contrary to Internet conspiracies, there is no ‘standard piano key width’.“

😉


That particular person is very knowledgeable about Yamaha keys and will generally defend Yamaha design decisions when they are questioned. I will concede that there isn’t a published standard that manufacturers can quote and say “we are compliant”. And there is some variation. I just measured 5 of my keyboards and there was about 1/16” per octave variation across all of them. When I had my MOXF, it was around 3/16 “ per octave shorter than my other keyboards. It didn’t tend to bother me if I was playing just that keyboard; I seemed to adjust subconsciously. But it did bother me slightly if I was playing with one hand on another keyboard and one on the Yamaha. Not a huge deal, but I don’t understand why they want to deviate arbitrarily that far from the “norm”. It can only cost them sales...I don’t see them touting it as a feature. Oh well, there are plenty of choices out there.

Last edited by Sam Mullins; 02/08/20 10:49 PM.

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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Manolios] #3028160 02/09/20 08:36 AM
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Bad Mister @ YamahaSynth: „ The new YC61 has neither a piano action, nor does it have an action like the MX61.
Also, contrary to Internet conspiracies, there is no ‘standard piano key width’.“

😉[/quote]

Maybe I missed it but I don't think anyone here stated that the YC61 had a piano action. Internet conspiricies notwithstang,while there is no strict piano key width,there are acceptable tolerances outside of which some might find playing a little awkward. I don't mind a few mm either way but some folks have stated it could be a deal breaker. For instance,my Roland A70 has narrower black keys than most and I can play it fine. A few guys who have sat in on it have bellyached like mad about it. Also,I think since theYC is being touted as organ centric it might have been smart to make the keys the same width as those on a Hammond console. For all I know maybe they did. Really want to try the YC. Do I need it? No. Will I want it? Can't say until I get my hands on it. Right now it's all baloon juice.

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Pa Gherkin] #3028216 02/09/20 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Pa Gherkin


Bad Mister @ YamahaSynth: „ The new YC61 has neither a piano action, nor does it have an action like the MX61.
Also, contrary to Internet conspiracies, there is no ‘standard piano key width’.“

😉


Maybe I missed it but I don't think anyone here stated that the YC61 had a piano action. Internet conspiricies notwithstang,while there is no strict piano key width,there are acceptable tolerances outside of which some might find playing a little awkward. I don't mind a few mm either way but some folks have stated it could be a deal breaker. For instance,my Roland A70 has narrower black keys than most and I can play it fine. A few guys who have sat in on it have bellyached like mad about it. Also,I think since theYC is being touted as organ centric it might have been smart to make the keys the same width as those on a Hammond console. For all I know maybe they did. Really want to try the YC. Do I need it? No. Will I want it? Can't say until I get my hands on it. Right now it's all baloon juice.[/quote]


I may have mentioned this already, but I played the YC at NAMM, and went right from the Marriott over to the convention center into the keyboard section to where Hammond was set up. I played the XK-5 within about 10 minutes of playing the YC. I remember thinking that the keys felt very similar to me, especially the light action (which I care about a lot as a NE owner, which still seems too stiff to me) and the shape of the keys. Hardly scientific, but that was my impression..

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: zxcvbnm098] #3028270 02/10/20 03:43 AM
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Zxc ,that's encouraging to hear. Thanks for sharing your impressions. I have high albeit guarded hopes for the YC. It could make my rig lighter and simpler which would be great as long as I don't have to sacrifice sound and playability. I'm with you on the Nord stiffly sprung action. Had it for a while and ended up bailing out on it.

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3028279 02/10/20 08:45 AM
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I prove the YC, and this is a great waterfall keybed,very pleasant to play.
Nothing similar to a Modx, a piano action or another thing.
Just a great organ waterfall keybed.

Eps and piano are from some off the CP séries, but not all (i have a CP88), and feel great to play on this keybed.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3028295 02/10/20 02:08 PM
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I think Yamaha can be trusted to deliver a top class action, especially on such a premium board.
And it definitely should deliver, because it entered a really stiff field: the direct competitors (Electro 6 61, SK1, Mojo 61, Vox Continental 61) are all at least 400€ cheaper, with the Vox a ridiculous 1000+€ cheaper.
And they are all excellent boards, each in its own way.

Of course the Yamaha brand and quality will automatically win lots of customers, but still the bar is set pretty high

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Spider76] #3028315 02/10/20 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Spider76
the direct competitors (Electro 6 61, SK1, Mojo 61, Vox Continental 61) are all at least 400€ cheaper

In the U.S., the Nord is hundreds more than the Yamaha.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: AnotherScott] #3028316 02/10/20 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by Spider76
the direct competitors (Electro 6 61, SK1, Mojo 61, Vox Continental 61) are all at least 400€ cheaper

In the U.S., the Nord is hundreds more than the Yamaha.


Really?!? Wow. EU (Thomann) prices are roughly, in euros

YC61: 2050
Electro 6: 1650
SK1: 1550
Mojo 61: 1350
Vox: 1000

If you throw in the VR-09 at €650 and the VR-730 at €1200, it's clear that the YC61 is going against a lot of decent-to-excellent competitors...all cheaper (many MUCH cheaper) than the Yammi

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3028353 02/10/20 06:11 PM
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Thomann UK lists the YC at 1699 Euros. Only the people who have played it are in a good position to say how it stacks up. Key action and finger-to-sound connection are such a big part of it for any keyboard, and the YC's action is totally new. That's definitely the big unknown for me. That alone is probably 20% of my buying decision for an organ clone that does other duties. C/V might not be best in class, but I'd be surprised if it was terrible, so I don't expect that will affect my buying decision much. Call it 5%. Let's say 10% for leslie sim. UI is probably 15%, and I can already see that it's 1-1 so big check in that box. That leaves 50% for how much I like the sounds. From what I've heard, they're likely good enough, but really need to get headphones on in a music store.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Spider76] #3028359 02/10/20 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Spider76
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by Spider76
the direct competitors (Electro 6 61, SK1, Mojo 61, Vox Continental 61) are all at least 400€ cheaper

In the U.S., the Nord is hundreds more than the Yamaha.


Really?!? Wow. EU (Thomann) prices are roughly, in euros

YC61: 2050
Electro 6: 1650
SK1: 1550
Mojo 61: 1350
Vox: 1000

If you throw in the VR-09 at €650 and the VR-730 at €1200, it's clear that the YC61 is going against a lot of decent-to-excellent competitors...all cheaper (many MUCH cheaper) than the Yammi


In the US, SW prices:
$2,000 YC61: 2050
$2,200 Electro 6: 1650
$1,900 SK1: 1550
$1,499 Mojo 61: 1350
$1,700 Vox: 1000

The real eye popper is the Nord Stage 88
$4,500 NS3 88: 3,200 euro

Geesh, the Electro and Vox are way way cheaper in Europe, even accounting for $1.09 needed for 1 euro. For the longest time I thought it was the other way around, cheaper to buy most boards in the US, looks like I was mistaken.

I've contacted Thomann and MusicStore.de about importing new boards here. Turns out their deals with the manufacturers prevent most boards being sold from Europe. Thomann said they'd honor the warranty if one was sold, but you'd have to pay for shipping there to have it fixed. They also said you could enter an item in their cart, and if it was not possible for them to sell you one as a US customer, the cart would tell you. They also only charge $33 for shipping to the US.


Here's the response I got from Thomann:

"Unfortunately we are not able to ship Yamaha, Casio, Roland and quite a few other brands products to the US at the moment. We are prohibited by existing agreements between manufacturers and distributors from selling some items to certain territories. This is something over which we have no influence – nor can we predict when, or if, the situation will change.

I've just checked the data base and Kurzweil is currently available for shipping to the US. Furthermore, we can send our own brand (the Thomann keyboards) to the US, however, some of them require UPS shipping (higher shipping costs), due to the parcel length.

With regards to your other questions:
> - Our 3 year warranty is valid worldwide, however, in a warranty case you'd need to send the item back to us. We would of course cover the return/ shipping costs in a warranty case.
> - We ship VAT free outside of the EU, so your order will not include the German VAT.

Randy


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3028891 02/13/20 08:14 PM
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It seems that I remember a brief image of a dual manual organ appearing on one of the Yamaha ads. Wondering if it's too much too hope for, that Yamaha could follow the lead of Ham-Suz and Crumar and offer the option of a lower manual to expand the YC-61?


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: pinkfloydcramer] #3029145 02/15/20 08:00 AM
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For some reason, can't edit or delete my post. Was mistaken about seeing a dual manual YC61. Sorry for the false info.


Please excuse my dangling "r"
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