Music Player Network
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 6 of 10 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3023963 01/16/20 03:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,100
Adan Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,100
Need to hear much more to really have a good idea about it, but at this point I'd say the FM organ could be a really interesting aspect of the YC, potentially making it more than just a "rich man's VR09". Clonewheel players are always in pursuit of authenticity above all else. Perhaps something like this can free some of us from being locked in that mindset.

This video also shows that it's pretty easy to access organ parameters such as leakage, just a button push away. Maybe the Hammond XK is also that easy? Can't remember. Crumar and Viscount link some but not all of these parameters to a dedicated knob.


Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Roland VR09, Yamaha P121
Traveling: Yamaha MX49, Reface CP and CS
Home: Vintage Vibe 64
KC Island
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3023966 01/16/20 03:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
J
jimkost2002 Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
J
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted by jimkost2002
New NAMM Demo with Blake:

https://youtu.be/2SeBgEDoZCU

He’s pitching this as “ a piano player’s keyboard to explore organ”...... Hmmmm,.... he TALKS about CV but does not USE it anywhere in this demo, but, IMJ, because he’s not an organ player rather than any conscious motivation to hide lesser quality.
Functionality and build are top notch as usual. The B3 has a number of slots, one with foldback, one without, which he says id FM based if I heard correctly? A good B3 for Benmont Tench/Rami Jaffe style playing, jury’s still out if it can go head to head with the big boys, but it sounds WAY better than the Nord model for sure. (Probably plays better, too).


I think he is referring to its single manual, 61keys and likely placement over a stage piano like the CP88. This isn't a Viscount Legend, Mojo, Hammond XK-5, etc. It competes with other jack of all trades boards like the VR-730 and Electro D, SK1.

Is it a stretch to imagine that once they've put the R&D in, gotten user feedback, and done some revisions that an "organ players" instrument might be in their future?



All of your questions are well taken, Elmer! My response is based on what Yamaha’s conception is of this board and how it potentially works right now! So far, it seems like a great addition to the existing Yamaha Stage Keyboard Lineup and a great “Swiss Army Knife” board. and this naturally invites Nord comparisons, but the Audio Interface and PB/Mod controls already put it ahead of the Electro!


"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�
Robert Bosch, 1919
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Adan] #3023967 01/16/20 03:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
J
jimkost2002 Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
J
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
Great points Adan!


"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�
Robert Bosch, 1919
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3023984 01/16/20 05:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
J
jimkost2002 Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
J
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413


"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�
Robert Bosch, 1919
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024002 01/16/20 05:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,100
Adan Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,100
The single drawbar set system is really ingenuous. Benefits of combining track lighting with physical drawbars is pretty obvious. But I also love that the color of the lights tells you which manual is active, which saves you from having to divert your attention to looking at a tiny single LED indicator as is the case on the Mojo 61, the SK1, and the Electro.


Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Roland VR09, Yamaha P121
Traveling: Yamaha MX49, Reface CP and CS
Home: Vintage Vibe 64
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024004 01/16/20 05:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,226
nadroj Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,226


Nord E4 SW73
Yamaha MODX7
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024013 01/16/20 06:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
P
pinkfloydcramer Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
P
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
This board puts me in mind of that old jazz standard, "You're the One For Me (Until the Next 'One' Comes Along)". Bye bye CP73..only regret about it was that I didn't get the 88, can't justify spending that much $ on a weighted action board I can't play boogie woogie and classical literature on (I'm in the Outkaster camp). And of course, the abysmal organs. Now we have some insight as to why they were purposely abysmal.

Very glad to see they are copying the Nord (and Hammond SK series) on the capability of a 2nd, weighted action (presumably) board to control the pianos. Almost just as glad to see that it's not red, also lol. I think the YC 61 will eat the Electro market's lunch..serves Nord right for being too stubborn to implement a better feeling, not-so-stiffly-sprung action. Just my own personal grudge, sorry!


Please excuse my dangling "r"
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024018 01/16/20 06:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,677
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,677
Yamaha YC61 published spec on the 61k action is Semi-weighted, Waterfall Keys.
I was worried since it has waterfell keys they had used the TP-8O like on the Electro which is not my favorite feeling organ action. "Tight and springy" has been the common description.
At this price point we tend to get Yamaha's better quality actions... since they are saying "semi weight" that suggests its based on the synth action on the Montage.
If that is true, it will feel very good. However - what we don't know is if the width of keys will be just slightly skinnier than their digital piano actions.


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024019 01/16/20 06:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,226
nadroj Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,226
Development video (English subtitles available)



Nord E4 SW73
Yamaha MODX7
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024049 01/16/20 09:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,701
CEB Online Content
10k Club
Online Content
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,701
I’m warming up to the YamaNord. I wonder when our shop will get one.

Last edited by CEB; 01/16/20 09:16 PM.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024067 01/16/20 10:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,812
M
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
M
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,812
Speaking of YamaNords, if they add an Andean Quena or Siku (so-called pan-pipes) sample, they could call it a "Llama Ha".


Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Hofner HCT-500/7, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, G5422DC-12, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: nadroj] #3024068 01/16/20 10:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 163
P
pjd Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
P
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 163


Man, that was tastee. And so was the keyboard. :-)

-- pj

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024070 01/16/20 10:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
J
jimkost2002 Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
J
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
As long as the organs have a shallow trigger point, the YamaNord will be golden!


"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�
Robert Bosch, 1919
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3024072 01/16/20 10:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3
V
Vanyo Offline
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3
Not gonna lie, as a Yamahor, this keyboard gives me the horn.

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024138 01/17/20 05:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 24
A
artdob Offline
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 24
Played this keyboard at NAMM today. Incredibly underwhelmed. This was my biggest disappointment of the show.


Hammond XK5, Alesis QS8, Yamaha DX7IIFD, Roland XV2020 (SRX-11 & 12), Kawai RX7, Scheidmayer Clavichord, Strymon (Flint, Big Sky, Timeline, Mobius, Ola, El Capistan), Neo Ventilator II
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024142 01/17/20 06:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,187
brenner13 Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,187
Curious, it appears from your signature gear listing, a clonewheel is notably vacant. What runs through the Vent?
Can you elaborate on the main prickly bits of the YC61?


Gig: MODX7; QSC K12; JBL PRX615M
Others: Vortex2; Deepmind12; Numa Compact2; Kawai ES100;
MS2000R; JX10, S550, VK1000, VR09; EX5, SY55 & 77.
https://soundcloud.com/brad-renner
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024147 01/17/20 06:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,372
N
niacin Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
N
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,372
Nah, his OB3sq is an old clonewheel, the basic sound was solid so probably pretty good through a Ventilator. But yes, we'd be interested in some elaboration on what was underwhelming. I'm pretty much the target market, clonewheel plus bread and butter sounds - I own or have owned a Hammond SK-1, A Korg Vox Continental, A Nord Electro 5d and a Roland VR-09 (the latter two being long gone) - and based on current demos and info will buy one. Glad they've got everything right spec-wise and aimed at a higher price bracket and got splits and effects properly sorted. So yeh, interested in the negatives. And given the comments here I'll suggest the overdrive doesn't sound half as bad as that on my SK-1.

Last edited by niacin; 01/17/20 06:33 AM.

Keyboards: Hammond SK2, HX3 (for blues gigs), Hammond SK1, Korg Vox Continental
Amplification: Line6 L3T, Yamaha DBR-10, Presonus Air 10
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024152 01/17/20 07:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,808
Jim Alfredson Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,808
I spent about 20 minutes with it today. It is very disappointing. The keybed isn't very good, the EPs are really bad, which frankly shocked me, and the chorus/vibrato is really really bad. The FM engine sounds great but is not user-editable. You can't make your own sounds. No access to algorithms, operators, etc. Playing acoustic piano on the keybed is not comfortable.

I was really disappointed. frown

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024153 01/17/20 07:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,030
J
Jazzmammal Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
J
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,030
Oh, man. Really? Some of us have been suspicious of the C/V since it hasn't been featured in any vids but everything else? Coming from you this is bad.

Bob


Hammond SK1, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Jim Alfredson] #3024177 01/17/20 11:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
J
jimkost2002 Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
J
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by Jim Alfredson
I spent about 20 minutes with it today. It is very disappointing. The keybed isn't very good, the EPs are really bad, which frankly shocked me, and the chorus/vibrato is really really bad. The FM engine sounds great but is not user-editable. You can't make your own sounds. No access to algorithms, operators, etc. Playing acoustic piano on the keybed is not comfortable.

I was really disappointed. frown



Thanks for your impressions, Jim. I, however, am not swayed until I lay my own hands on one!
EPs really bad? Only if they put different, evil twins of those that appear on the CP 88/73......;-)
And is the user not able to change Velocity Curves for Pianos?
CV? Not editable or changeable on the front panel in any way?
Trigger point on organs?
THESE are the burning questions still unanswered! wink lol



Last edited by jimkost2002; 01/17/20 11:50 AM.

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�
Robert Bosch, 1919
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024178 01/17/20 11:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,677
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,677
VCM shouldn’t have a problem doing Chorus and Vibrato from electrical circuits. Unless they aren’t using VCM for this section. Surely fixable in firmware update.

If the action isn’t of Yamaha’s high end quality, this price point is wrong IMHO.
The thing costs as much as CP88.

Jim, EP’s on the CP88 are quite good - I've AB'd them side by side with the Crumar Seven. Did they not just bring over the same sample libraries?


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3024184 01/17/20 01:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
J
jimkost2002 Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
J
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
VCM shouldn’t have a problem doing Chorus and Vibrato from electrical circuits. Unless they aren’t using VCM for this section. Surely fixable in firmware update.

If the action isn’t of Yamaha’s high end quality, this price point is wrong IMHO.
The thing costs as much as CP88.

Jim, EP’s on the CP88 are quite good - I've AB'd them side by side with the Crumar Seven. Did they not just bring over the same sample libraries?


Elmer, my understanding is that the CP and YC share the same EPs
(I know you were asking Alfredson, but I thought I’d put in my $0.02)

Last edited by jimkost2002; 01/17/20 02:01 PM.

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�
Robert Bosch, 1919
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: jimkost2002] #3024188 01/17/20 02:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,389
AnotherScott Offline
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,389
Originally Posted by artdob
Played this keyboard at NAMM today. Incredibly underwhelmed. This was my biggest disappointment of the show.

Sound, action, or both? (And if sound, organ or other?)
Originally Posted by Jim Alfredson
the EPs are really bad, which frankly shocked me

It doesn't shock me, because Yamaha EPs tend to miss the mark for me (though I know this is not a universally held opinion). Sometimes they can sound right at a certain velocity/key range, but then go wrong at a different one, or the transition is clumsy. The MODX is so editable, I've thought that I could probably fix it to be closer to my taste, but it's a low priority since I have other EPs at my disposal anyway. But of course the YC doesn't give you that option, which brings me to...
Originally Posted by Jim Alfredson
The FM engine sounds great but is not user-editable. You can't make your own sounds. No access to algorithms, operators, etc.

I'm not surprised. Apart from having drawbars for organ, there's virtually no sound editing, it's really more of a preset machine, like all the P and CP and S models have been. Really, this century, I don't think there have been any really editable Yamahas except for the Motif/Montage and their lower end derivatives (and some Reface).
Originally Posted by jimkost2002

CV? Not editable or changeable on the front panel in any way?

There are dedicated controls for that, look above the 2nd and 3rd drawbars.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024189 01/17/20 02:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
J
jimkost2002 Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
J
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
I know, scott, but I’m thinking Jim may have not seen any more editable parameters in the usual NAMM noise environment

Last edited by jimkost2002; 01/17/20 02:19 PM.

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�
Robert Bosch, 1919
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024195 01/17/20 03:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,100
Adan Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,100
Yamaha has messed up C/V before, specifically on the Reface YC. That, and the fact that it's not really featured in their demos to date, is suspicious.

From the demos the EPs sound on par with the CP88, and they seem to be quite playable from the YC keyboard.

I think people will be shocked if the YC action is not good, as that area is a perennial strength for Yamaha. Having a good waterfall action would be a major reason to upgrade from the VR09, but if the action is disappointing then that's a major reason to stick with the VR.

Could the YC's action actually be stiffer/springeir than Fatar? If that were the case, then the whole design team should be fired. One only needs to step a toe into the clonewheel community to understand that this has been a perennial complaint.

Because it's a Yamaha, it will be in stores everywhere, probably sooner than most people expect. From my perspective there's no need to rush to judgment, I'll just wait to play it myself.


Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Roland VR09, Yamaha P121
Traveling: Yamaha MX49, Reface CP and CS
Home: Vintage Vibe 64
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024196 01/17/20 03:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
J
jimkost2002 Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
J
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,413
Well stated Adan!


"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�
Robert Bosch, 1919
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Adan] #3024197 01/17/20 03:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,677
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,677
Originally Posted by Adan
Yamaha has messed up C/V before, specifically on the Reface YC. That, and the fact that it's not really featured in their demos to date, is suspicious.

From the demos the EPs sound on par with the CP88, and they seem to be quite playable from the YC keyboard.

I think people will be shocked if the YC action is not good, as that area is a perennial strength for Yamaha. Having a good waterfall action would be a major reason to upgrade from the VR09, but if the action is disappointing then that's a major reason to stick with the VR.

Could the YC's action actually be stiffer/springeir than Fatar? If that were the case, then the whole design team should be fired. One only needs to step a toe into the clonewheel community to understand that this has been a perennial complaint.

Because it's a Yamaha, it will be in stores everywhere, probably sooner than most people expect. From my perspective there's no need to rush to judgment, I'll just wait to play it myself.


I agree, if they buggered the action at this price point, that's not really forgivable. It should feel like the Montage 7 not the MODX7.

Chorus/Vibrato can be improved with a firmware update - but Yamaha is not always great at listening to user feedback - at least not in any reasonable amount of time. At least they beefed up the CP88 misc sounds section a bit.

That FM synth not being editable even by an iPad app is a disappointment for sure - but I;'m not certain they are competing so much with the Stage 3 Compact as the Electro D (which hasn't a synth engine at all).

I'm not worried about the EP samples... if they are off the CP88, they are quite good and there's some tweak-ability with eq and fx.

If Nord's Wave 2 had included the organ section.... and if they could do something about their implementation of the TP-8O....


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024206 01/17/20 04:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,030
J
Jazzmammal Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
J
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,030
Well, I've been a fan of Alfredson for years, I've watched all of his vids going back to his blind shoot out comparisons of his B3/Leslie to his XK3/Vent and all that stuff and I met him at NAMM a couple years ago. Dude knows what he's talking about and I was expecting his impressions to land here soon and guess what, they did. Crash and burn. Right now this is a huge downer for me concerning this board and the last thing I'm interested in is to buy a new board then hope for flippin updates to fix it and an update is not fixing the action. That's a losing proposition as far as I'm concerned. I already have the FA06 with good sounds but no C/V for organ and a crappy action, don't need another one.

Bob


Hammond SK1, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3024207 01/17/20 04:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,389
AnotherScott Offline
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,389
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Chorus/Vibrato can be improved with a firmware update

I'm skeptical about this kind of thinking. Even if they recognize the C/V's shortcomings (assuming it actually IS disappointing), it doesn't mean they know how to do it any better or specifically that a better implementation is do-able within the resources of the machine. To the purists, C/V seems second only to the Leslie/overdrive sim in things that clones tend to fall short on, it's clearly not the easiest thing to duplicate exactly, at least out of "generic" effects capabilities. (Heck, Roland FA omits it altogether despite marketing that model as including SuperNATURAL organ.)


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3024218 01/17/20 06:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 7,027
O
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
O
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 7,027
I wonder if developers frequent these forums?


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com

Page 6 of 10 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Moderated by  Dave Bryce, Stephen Fortner 

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3