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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Stephen Fortner] #3023050 01/10/20 10:28 PM
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Thanks for your perspective, Dr Fortner!
You have confirmed my gut instincts.....and as a happy CP88 owner, I have high hopes for the YC!


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3023051 01/10/20 10:29 PM
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I actually thought the FM-based stuff sounded fantastic, and the best of anything in that short 5-minute introductory video, so it would be good to know if there's an FM engine that can be opened up.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3023056 01/10/20 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted by engineerjoel
Too bad it does not have assignable Outputs. I like to use outboard gear (Ventilator or even a real Leslie) to process the organ sounds... and run all the other sounds (piano,strings, brass, ect.) out the stereo main output.


True but typically only an issue when wanting to layer and split when using the Vent. The Vent has true bypass, yeah?



That's how I use my Lester K with my VR-09. I don't do any organ/synth layers. Lester has bypass.
When I do layer organ, etc... it controlled by my 88 keyboard playing the main sound, with the organ layer coming from the VR


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Stephen Fortner] #3023073 01/10/20 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
I've worked extensively with the new CP for the past year (videos coming to MPN soon) and know from its sound quality...


Can you share if Yamaha’s synth division is still intending to maintain their schedule of updating the CP series’ OS every 6 months? That’s what Blake Angelos said when the CP88/73 were introduced. I’m curious if they are planning on broadening the sounds offered by the CPs, and also if they snuck some MIDI 2.0 ready hardware in there.

Next OS update is due in March, but hopefully they can talk about it at NAMM.

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: dongna] #3023086 01/11/20 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dongna
I hate to be a crybaby, but it's a cryin' shame this board doesn't have aftertouch. Like many here, I believe, I would be interested in this as a second board up top a slab piano. Since pianos typically don't have AT, it's pretty imperative to me that my second board does.


Neither do organs! cop wink


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3023096 01/11/20 01:24 AM
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I just now noticed the "little detail" that it's an 8-operator FM engine, like the FS1R.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Mark Schmieder] #3023101 01/11/20 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Schmieder
I just now noticed the "little detail" that it's an 8-operator FM engine, like the FS1R.



Ya! That’s the question of the day.
Is it programmable?
Will there be downloadable patches?

If this is open to patch creation the YC61 is closer to a Stage 3 than an Electro.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3023103 01/11/20 02:04 AM
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This is aimed at people who want to do a gig with one board. It isn't for hardcore organists nor for hardcore pianists. It's the "Swiss Army knife" keyboard. Throw it on your back and get to the gig. All the sounds would work fine in a band context under the fingers of a capable player.

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3023105 01/11/20 02:23 AM
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Having now listened to the 20 demos at Soundcloud, and part of the lengthy 1+ hour interview with Blake, this instrument is growing on me, as one that never sounds bad, always musical and expressive, and closer to a pure Hammond sound (which of course can vary a lot between models and individual units), than I initially thought. I'm thinking more and more that this might be the best stage keyboard solution at the moment, for bread & butter, given also that a good semi-weighted action isn't so awful for acoustic piano as is a synth action. But 73-76 keys might be a somewhat better fit for such a role, when needing splits for heavily orchestrated pop and dance songs.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Mark Schmieder] #3023107 01/11/20 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Schmieder
Having now listened to the 20 demos at Soundcloud, and part of the lengthy 1+ hour interview with Blake, this instrument is growing on me, as one that never sounds bad, always musical and expressive, and closer to a pure Hammond sound (which of course can vary a lot between models and individual units), than I initially thought. I'm thinking more and more that this might be the best stage keyboard solution at the moment, for bread & butter, given also that a good semi-weighted action isn't so awful for acoustic piano as is a synth action. But 73-76 keys might be a somewhat better fit for such a role, when needing splits for heavily orchestrated pop and dance songs.


OK, I went and listened to all the Soundcloud demos, and I too came away impressed -- especially the organ sounds. Jeez. Just bein' honest, there's tasty stuff there that I can't easily dial up natively on my Nords. Based on what I heard, the leslie emulation is a cut above, as is the distortion/grit. I could see myself playing this board.

I don't care for the APs so much (nor the action) as my NP4 brings the serious bacon, but the EPs (including the FM EPs) sound sweet! And the bendy synth solos made me think hard. And I've got a NS3C as my main board. Yamaha appears to be flexing their chops vs. the upstarts from Sweden. Game on.

I'm looking forward to live gig reports vs. sterile studio recordings. Can it cut? So much subtlety gets lost in the fog of war.

Maybe I'm losing my religion smile Nord has their hands full responding to this, especially down the road.

We live in wonderful times, no?


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: cphollis] #3023111 01/11/20 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by cphollis
Originally Posted by Mark Schmieder
Having now listened to the 20 demos at Soundcloud, and part of the lengthy 1+ hour interview with Blake, this instrument is growing on me, as one that never sounds bad, always musical and expressive, and closer to a pure Hammond sound (which of course can vary a lot between models and individual units), than I initially thought. I'm thinking more and more that this might be the best stage keyboard solution at the moment, for bread & butter, given also that a good semi-weighted action isn't so awful for acoustic piano as is a synth action. But 73-76 keys might be a somewhat better fit for such a role, when needing splits for heavily orchestrated pop and dance songs.


OK, I went and listened to all the Soundcloud demos, and I too came away impressed -- especially the organ sounds. Jeez. Just bein' honest, there's tasty stuff there that I can't easily dial up natively on my Nords. Based on what I heard, the leslie emulation is a cut above, as is the distortion/grit. I could see myself playing this board.

I don't care for the APs so much (nor the action) as my NP4 brings the serious bacon, but the EPs (including the FM EPs) sound sweet! And the bendy synth solos made me think hard. And I've got a NS3C as my main board. Yamaha appears to be flexing their chops vs. the upstarts from Sweden. Game on.

I'm looking forward to live gig reports vs. sterile studio recordings. Can it cut? So much subtlety gets lost in the fog of war.

Maybe I'm losing my religion smile Nord has their hands full responding to this, especially down the road.

We live in wonderful times, no?


You’d be hard pressed to make a list of slab stage pianos with a better action than the CP88. The CP4 was already preferable (to me) than the TP-40 or 100 used in Nord keyboards. And the TP-8O they use on their Electro models is one of the single biggest reasons I’ve passed on one (price being another). IMHO you pick a Nord for the UI and the IP - ease of use, excellent and growing sample library, excellent synth engine (absent from the Electro line). Definitely not their action. There’s a reason they wanted the Kawai action for their Nord Grand.

I agree, there’s lots of options available these days. More than ever - competition is pushing some creative instrument design.

From the YC manual it looks like the 8 operator, 128 voice, FM section is relegated to producing FM organ tones.
What the heck... Classic Yamaha controlling their IP at the $2k price point. Have to get a Montage to get the FM synth. That’s a shame. Maybe more patches possible in the future? What’s this soundmondo thing?


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Jim Alfredson] #3023113 01/11/20 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Alfredson
This is aimed at people who want to do a gig with one board. It isn't for hardcore organists nor for hardcore pianists. It's the "Swiss Army knife" keyboard. Throw it on your back and get to the gig. All the sounds would work fine in a band context under the fingers of a capable player.

That’s exactly how I view my Vox 61 and 73.
Got them both for less than the YC61.

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: konaboy] #3023118 01/11/20 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by konaboy
if you can get past the fact that it's not a hammond, the FM organ through the leslie sim when played with taste sounds absolutely wonderful, check the demo track "YC61 FM Organ F1Testify". I would totally enjoy using that!

https://soundcloud.com/yamahasynth/yc61-f1testify?in=yamahasynth/sets/yc61-voices


I'm with you on this. I think I enjoyed this the most of all the demos.

For most of the B3 and EP demos I'm having a hard time not being annoyed by the YC distortion. It's not good, imo. I tend to like a cleaner sound regardless, so I might like the organ and EP voices better when I hear them that way.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3023123 01/11/20 06:39 AM
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Adan, I felt the same way about the distortion, but wasn't sure it is possible to judge from a video posting as there's going to be distortion from the compression and other mangling that happens. I generally feel we can probably get a good sense of timbre and dynamics, but it becomes difficult to push much past that in a video-based evaluation.

Do you think this is too much of a niche market for these to show up at Guitar Center outlets to try out? After all, the Korg SV-series isn't exactly easy to find in stores.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3023129 01/11/20 10:39 AM
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A bit of (wild) speculation..... the CP73 prices in the UK are down £1199 - £1249 from an original list price of over £1500. This board had a lot of bad press re. the black keys - I scoped mine and it was fine - but mud sticks.

So..... Yamaha will discontinue the CP73 and announce the YC73 probably with a waterfall keyboard. Someone in the US should see if they can pick a new CP73 up for $1500. On the subject of price I expect the YC61 to be selling in the UK for £1349 in direct competition with the Electro 6D.

On second thoughts that's a bit harsh on the CP73 so Yamaha will probably not drop it.

As someone posted earlier it's good to see Yamaha going head to head with Nord but they are going to be playing catch up. Nord have taken years to develop the Electro not to mention software like Sample Manager. It's those incremental improvements that take time to evolve - like the addition of 4 dynamic curves for the pianos which can be stored in each preset. On the YC61 (and CP73/88) you just have a global keyboard setting.

A YC73 would be a perfect one board solution and it's not red!

Last edited by ChazKeys; 01/11/20 11:40 AM. Reason: Updated
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3023131 01/11/20 11:21 AM
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FM synth engine is interesting, you'll be able to get some lovely brass and pads when running it through the FX. I'm guessing it's same 8-op engine as MODX, so question is if you can load DX7 patches just like you can with the MO! grin


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: ChazKeys] #3023132 01/11/20 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ChazKeys
A bit of (wild) speculation..... the CP73 prices in the UK are down £1199 - £1249 from an original list price of over £1500. This board had a lot of bad press re. the black keys - I scoped mine and it was fine - but mud sticks.

So..... Yamaha will discontinue the CP73 and announce the YC73 probably with a waterfall keyboard. Someone in the US should see if they can pick a new CP73 up for $1500. On the subject of price I expect the YC61 to be selling in the UK for £1349 in direct competition with the Electro 6D.

On second thoughts that's a bit harsh on the CP73 so Yamaha will probably not drop it.

As someone posted earlier it's good to see Yamaha going head to head with Nord but they are going to be playing catch up. Nord have taken years to develop the Electro not to mention software like Sample Manager. It's those incremental improvements that take time to evolve - like the addition of 4 dynamic curves for the pianos which can be stored in each preset. On the YC61 (and CP73/88) you just have a global keyboard setting.

A YC73 would be a perfect one board solution and it's not red!


Andertons are listing the YC61 at £1,679 and the Electro 6D 61 at £1,289 . There’s a soft case for the YC61 for £234 which compares with £71 for the Nord case. So it seems that, initially at least, the YC61 is being pitched above the Electro.

Cheers

John


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: ChazKeys] #3023133 01/11/20 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ChazKeys
A bit of (wild) speculation..... the CP73 prices in the UK are down £1199 - £1249 from an original list price of over £1500. This board had a lot of bad press re. the black keys - I scoped mine and it was fine - but mud sticks.


Can’t see this happening after it coming out barley a year ago? Would be like some kind of admission that the cp73 didn’t work well. I was kinda surprised even when the cp88 came out as the cp4 wasn’t that old. That being said I’m in the market for a cp73 so any price reductions would be welcome. With the audio interface the iPad with Galileo/B3x would take care of the any lack of organs.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Dockeys] #3023136 01/11/20 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dockeys
Originally Posted by ChazKeys
A bit of (wild) speculation..... the CP73 prices in the UK are down £1199 - £1249 from an original list price of over £1500. This board had a lot of bad press re. the black keys - I scoped mine and it was fine - but mud sticks.


Can’t see this happening after it coming out barley a year ago? Would be like some kind of admission that the cp73 didn’t work well. I was kinda surprised even when the cp88 came out as the cp4 wasn’t that old. That being said I’m in the market for a cp73 so any price reductions would be welcome. With the audio interface the iPad with Galileo/B3x would take care of the any lack of organs.


Well as I said the CP73 will probably not be dropped - mine has no problem with velocity on the black notes. I think they will announce a YC73 it at NAMM.

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Jim Alfredson] #3023139 01/11/20 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Alfredson
This is aimed at people who want to do a gig with one board. It isn't for hardcore organists nor for hardcore pianists. It's the "Swiss Army knife" keyboard. Throw it on your back and get to the gig. All the sounds would work fine in a band context under the fingers of a capable player.



Well said, Jim, couldn’t have stated it better myself!

As a happy CP88 owner, I can attest to the top-notch pianos and clavs and from what I’ve heard so far from the organs, they will be sufficient in a band context, The combo organs will be perfect for my Afrobeat gigs. And if I decide to use Keyscape/Omnisphere, this will be AWESOME!!

Aftertouch, schmaftertouch.....
never used it, never plan to....


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3023144 01/11/20 02:32 PM
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I’m looking forward to trying this board. An all-in-one lightweight 61-key keyboard with audio in, USB audio / integrated audio interface, good midi controls including drawbars, pitch bend, and a wide variety of strong internal sounds pretty much covers my needs. I hope I understand all of this correctly. Use it alone, with a laptop, or with the HX3 expander module if better B3 is desired, or with a second keyboard with weighted action — very cool! I can live without after touch. Yamaha actions have been to my liking in the past so I’m hopeful the YC61 will be as well.

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: konaboy] #3023145 01/11/20 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by konaboy
FM synth engine is interesting, you'll be able to get some lovely brass and pads when running it through the FX. I'm guessing it's same 8-op engine as MODX, so question is if you can load DX7 patches just like you can with the MO! grin


If this is true I’ll poop my pants and my wallet will fall out.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3023146 01/11/20 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Alfredson
This is aimed at people who want to do a gig with one board. It isn't for hardcore organists nor for hardcore pianists. It's the "Swiss Army knife" keyboard. Throw it on your back and get to the gig. All the sounds would work fine in a band context under the fingers of a capable player.

Largely agreed, though personally, if I were gigging with one board, I'd really prefer more than 61 keys, since the board would likely have significant use as a piano and for splits, both areas where 61 is tight. But yeah, 61 can be manageable. Readily accessible octave shift buttons help. I also think this has a good amount of appeal as a second tier board above a slab piano, though.

Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
From the YC manual it looks like the 8 operator, 128 voice, FM section is relegated to producing FM organ tones.

No, as I posted earlier, according to the sound list, FM is also used for numerous other sounds... some of the EPs, brass, synth, bass, and chromatic percussion sounds are FM, along with one of the guitars and one of the harmonicas.

Some other thoughts about it:

As Nord did with their recent addition of a numeric mode, the 8 buttons should have an alternate "2-button patch recall" mode, where you could call up patches 11-88 (except for ones that have 0 or 9) directly with two button presses (or the entire patch list could be numbered without using 9 or 0, as Roland used to do). Banks of 8 single-button recallable sounds is good, but sometimes the other method can be better.

It looks like a ton of organ attributes can be saved individually with each user preset (live set), which is cool, but it looks like there's no way to globally save a default setting for these things, which may be unfortunate. If you spontaneously decide to activate the organ section, I"m not sure you can do so in a way that is likely to get you the organ you want, i.e. the current live drawbar settings, routed through the Leslie effect, with the amount of overdrive and leakage and key click you like, with the Leslie settings you like... it seems like you should be able to specify global default settings for this purpose (click, leakage, rotary on, etc.), but I don't think there is one.

As I mentioned, short of a separate assignable out, I'd really like to have seen a dual mono mode, so one could send organ or LH bass out apart from other sounds.

...but at least those things could theoretically be added. In terms of non-changeable things... Does anyone know if the LED-encircled knobs are endless encoders? And it would have been nice if the various 2-character LED displays were more descriptive OLED as used on boards like Grandstage, King Korg, and Hydrasynth.


Last edited by AnotherScott; 01/11/20 02:52 PM.

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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3023149 01/11/20 03:17 PM
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This is not going to replace my Mojo 61. B3 emulation isn't in the same league to my ears.

At some point it will very likely replace my VR09 as a one board solution for rehearsals and high effort/low reward gigs. May seem like a lot to spend for a board used only for that. But my VR09 gets a lot of use in that capacity, so the upgrade seems worth it to me.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: tfort] #3023153 01/11/20 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by tfort
Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
I've worked extensively with the new CP for the past year (videos coming to MPN soon) and know from its sound quality...


Can you share if Yamaha’s synth division is still intending to maintain their schedule of updating the CP series’ OS every 6 months? That’s what Blake Angelos said when the CP88/73 were introduced. I’m curious if they are planning on broadening the sounds offered by the CPs, and also if they snuck some MIDI 2.0 ready hardware in there.

Next OS update is due in March, but hopefully they can talk about it at NAMM.


Yes, I believe they are committed to maintaining this schedule in the foreseeable term. No instrument is supported forever, but we're already up to version 1.3 of the CPOS, and there are a ton more sounds compared to the original out-of-the-box version.


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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Adan] #3023156 01/11/20 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Adan
This is not going to replace my Mojo 61. B3 emulation isn't in the same league to my ears.

At some point it will very likely replace my VR09 as a one board solution for rehearsals and high effort/low reward gigs. May seem like a lot to spend for a board used only for that. But my VR09 gets a lot of use in that capacity, so the upgrade seems worth it to me.


That’s my feeling too, although no one expects Yamaha to actually do a B3 emulation, much as they have the expertise and resources to do so.

Meanwhile for my purposes, a Mojo61, lacking an excellent AP and synth engine, can MIDI up to anything, especially with the lower manual to dedicate to it.


1977 Kawai KG2C ◊ Crumar Mojo61 A+B ◊ Korg Grandstage 73
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3023160 01/11/20 05:21 PM
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pinkfloydcramer Online Content
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Wow, judging from Soundcloud this thing's a winner! The organs have a nice vibe and I'd gladly use them, although I notice they are staying away from V/C. As a CP73 owner I knew how good the CFX sample sounds. The mini is an absolute gas! Count me as one wanting 73/76 keys.


Please excuse my dangling "r"
Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: Giancarlo Robles] #3023168 01/11/20 06:10 PM
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If Yamaha had designed this with 73 or 76 keys at this price, I’d have already put my money down on a pre order. Like so many others, I just feel stifled on a one-board-gig with only 61 keys. Still GASing pretty hard for this new offering. It is the strongest instrument so far to replace the dern good sounds I’ve coaxed from my VR09. If Roland parts department hadn’t so carelessly jilted my request for a simple pitch-paddle replacement, I probably would have already upgraded to their VR730 and been perfectly happy (I don’t use midi much in the live rig). However, I’ve been eyeing all of the other Organ+ boards for over a year to replace it, but wound up jumping on a demo-priced MODX7 with excellent financing option. The keybed has a somewhat uncomfortable bottoming out feel and the organs get a “not quite” rating, mainly for the rotary and drive. All of the other sounds and things it does simply makes it the best one-board-tool for my needs right now as a weekend warrior.

Perhaps within a year, Yamaha might release a seventy-something-key version of their new Organ with aftertouch under the waterfall keys and add XLR outs. Maybe an expanded synth UI with a few additional knobs, faders, or touchscreen, or even a firmware update to multi-purpose the drawbars for hands-on control of Envelopes, LFO’s, Arpeggiator, and FM parameters. If the street price lands under 2300 usd, and the YC61 street price drops to 1649.99, Yamaha may well take an enormous chunk of this market share.



Gig: MODX7; QSC K12; JBL PRX615M
Others: Vortex2; Deepmind12; Numa Compact2; Kawai ES100;
MS2000R; JX10, S550, VK1000, VR09; EX5, SY55 & 77.
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Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: brenner13] #3023173 01/11/20 06:39 PM
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Yes the 73/76 version is where it’s at for me for a single board but as VR09 user I still don’t think there’s enough going on in the synth section in the YC. Since Franky46 rebooted the CTRLR panel I am quite often layering 2/3 sounds either side of a split point on the VR. Would miss that on YC although you can layer KeyA and Key B - and I notice they have added JP Strings to the voice list.

So come on Roland where’s your VR update? VR61?

Re: Yamaha YC61 Announced [Re: brenner13] #3023183 01/11/20 07:38 PM
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AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted by brenner13
Perhaps within a year, Yamaha might release a seventy-something-key version of their new Organ with aftertouch under the waterfall keys and add XLR outs. Maybe an expanded synth UI with a few additional knobs

I had just been thinking, while we're largely seeing this as a Nord Electro alternative, it actually even competes with the Nord Stage 3, to some extent, in that it has a number of features that Nord users get only when upgrading from the Electro to the Stage. It's missing the knobby VA synth from the Stage, but it does have some of the most useful parts of it that are missing from the Electro: pitch and modulation controls, monophonic synth mode with portamento, filter sweep. It also has the ability to split/layer sounds without one of the sounds having to be a piano or organ, and it has control over external MIDI zones. This is a lot of why Nord folks choose a Stage over an Electro. The big missing things besides the complete VA synth are the aftertouch and (as on the Electro) custom sample loading and more flexible output routing. If you don't need those, in a way, this is quite close to a Stage for a whole lot less (while also including some things even the Nord does not, like multisampled non-piano instruments, completely adjustable split point, 4 MIDI zones instead of 2).

Si picking up from what you said, if I were Yamaha, I'd consider a 7x-key version with aftertouch and assignable outs, and make use of the extra available panel space to provide some more filter and envelope controls (the actual controllable filter and envelope parameters appear to already exist in the underlying software, manipulated through the single EG/Filter knob). That could really be a nice Nord Stage alternative for many, especially if they could includes even just a small amount of space for loading user samples.

Your thought about re-purposing drawbars for envelope/filter controls (a la VR09, Vox Continental, Numa Compact 2X) is also viable (especially if they wanted to bring that functionality to the 61 where there is not a lot of free panel space), but it is really nice having completely separate knobs as on the Stage. The controls can be more logically laid out and labeled for their synth functions, you're not limited to nine, and if you're switching between synth and organ sounds, you don't mess up your drawbar settings because you moved the drawbars to make synth adjustments, meaning that when you switch back to organ, your drawbars are already in sync and right where you left them.


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