Are you a "flagship keyboard" type?

[Moonglow]

A couple of recent threads got me thinking...I usually buy a manufacturer's flagship keyboard, not the lower models, and my purchase history reflects this tendency (e.g., Kurzweil K2600x, Nord Stage, Kronos 88, Jupiter-80). I want the best of what they've got. I understand that many sub-category models have considerable practical utility including lower weight and lower price, but I'd rather apply that $$ toward a flagship board, even if I have to wait a little longer to fund the purchase. So how many of you are a snooty, flagship keyboard type (i.e., like me)?

[mcgoo]

Yes. An exception being my Kronos LS. If fit my needs because of the action, but technically I assume it's considered below the flagship 88. Overall I prefer the approach of "do it once, do it right", so I feel that flagship boards tend to be a safer bet.

 

Somewhat related, I also tend to be partial to specialty boards as opposed to "do it all" type boards. Again, the Kronos is an exception, but i consider it to be in the "it'll do" category compared to taking 4 or more boards to a gig. I don't, for that reason use it for recording.

[Baggypants]

Not even in the slightest. VR-09, Mininova, Poly-800. My current main board is built out of a Raspberry Pi. I think I sail about as far away from the flagships as possible.

[nursers]

I think for most it comes down to budget, and sometimes weight. I can usually never afford a flagship but did splurge on a Kronos LS 88 (like McGoo I'm not sure it qualifies), but usually rely on the next one down. My go-to gigging board is a MODX7 and I love it to bits, even with the keybed, as it's an easy weight and covers all my bases plus some.

[retrokeys]

The problem is what is "flagship?" I have an Hammond Suzuki XK5, which is arguably the top of the portable line but a long way from the B3p and even further from the "new B 3 or C 3." Similarly I have a Nord Electro 6 73 hp. I wanted a piano action but clearly this is not the Nord Grand, yet it has features not present there, Same issues with the stage . If flagship refers to price, no I don't buy flagship. If it means features I want, that's another question.

 

 

[jeffincltnc]

My answer is probably 'all of the above' for a number of circumstances.

 

I appreciate the value and quality of very well built instruments. To me that means I value playing an instrument that feels more like a crafted instrument. They are feelings I have from touching a quality keybed, touching high quality knobs and sliders and solidly built with metal and wood exterior.

 

It also means having quality internal power supplies instead of wall warts and line lumps, good inputs, outputs and DA converters.

 

Today, my anchor board is the Kurzweil Forte which gives me that feeling. I"ve felt similarly about Nord Stages and the Roland RD stage pianos. I consider all of these 'flagship' as I would Fantom, Kronos, Montage.

 

Not sure my flagship needs require a Moog One or Prophet XL. Those are a bridge too far for me.

 

I believe my next purchase in 2020 will be the Roland Jupiter X. I consider that to be a flagship quality instrument in its category alongside Fantom and RD-2000.

 

I have other instruments that are mid tier. The Roland FA-07 is my go to for rehearsals and jam sessions. It spends lots of time in my car and on the go. Not only does the weight and features tick a lot of boxes for a non flagship, but more and more it is being paired with an iPad. I now do pickup gigs where the sounds are coming off of an iPad and I am pretty happy with the sounds and am gaining more and confidence in iPad as a sound source.

 

It makes me wonder if eventually I will not bother with the flagships very much anymore but I will probably always own a couple best quality instruments that still feel like instruments.

 

I don"t consider a Viscount Legend to be a flagship as much as boutique and a very good one trick pony, but it"s damn nice for me.

 

Lastly, more and more of my time is spent in Komplete Kontrol and Logic Pro anyway. My creative workflow is powered with the Komplete Kontrol Mk2. While not a flagship build, it is Native Istruments" top of the line play surface that gives me the most out of Komplete Ultimate and Arturia V Collection, even though it"s very plastic, it"s the best tool for the job.

 

So like I said... all of the above.

 

 

 

 

[Lady Gaia]

Sort of. I am typically inclined to splurge less often in order to spend more on something I really like. That's true whether the subject is furniture, tequila, speakers, guitars, or synths. It's just an ingrained habit.

 

The reason I say "sort of" is that I don't always agree with the manufacturer regarding what their most desirable product is. I wouldn't trade my Prophet X for a Prophet XL because, while I like some things about the TP/8 action over the TP/9, I can't stand stiff springs as a poor substitute for a proper weighted hammer action and would rather have a synth action instead. Instead of taking their word for it, I'll choose the product that's the best fit for my needs.

[Rusty Mike]

Flagship status is irrelevant. I define my requirements and find the best tool to satisfy them. Budget is always one of those requirements, but not always the priority.

 

This applies to more than keyboards as well.

[eric]

Flagship all the way.

[ProfD]

I've had a few flagship KBs in the past. My needs do not justify the extra bells and whistles.

[Mighty Motif Max]

For my main board, yes! Mainly because I run a ton of splits and layers, need a large variety of high-quality sounds, want really good build-quality so it lasts, and don't want to outgrow the controllers, with the best (in my opinion) sounds at the time with an action I like. The flagship is pretty much the only way to get that most of the time. I have mid-range boards for secondary duties (or old flagships). I know quite a few people who buy the previous flagship to save money; they're still good boards.

[KeyboardEric]

No, but I hope to be able to afford one someday. To be fair I'm still mastering all of the nooks and crannies of my lower tier boards.

[Ed A.]

Not at all. I'm a computer/virtual instrument type now, but maybe I'll make an exception and buy an Expressive E Osmose this year.

[Tom Williams]

Statistically, I guess I have been an accidental flagship player. Casio CZ-1 and PX-5S, Ensoniq Mirage and EPS were at their top tier at the time of purchase, as were the Kurzweil K2600 and PC3, 5 or 10 years before I bought them.

 

But I've also had a Farfisa VIP 345, lower tier Ensoniqs, and am currently jonesing for a Kurzweil PC4 (or maybe a PC3k7); the Forte doesn't attract me, probably due to the lack of a ribbon controller.

 

My PA systems have always been 2nd or 3rd tier.

 

I'm looking for a used electronic drum kit in the $400 range -- definitely not the top o' the line from Yamaha or Roland.

[erik_nie]

Nice discussion.

 

Used to be a Flagship type: Forte, K2600R, PC3, KRONOS.

 

I only play live using a decent PA in an allround band.

 

I tend to use my own samples (from formaly owned sythns like D50, Tyros) mainly in a Forte and recently switched to Mainstage for that.

Main reason was the learning curve and I needed the laptop for backing tracks.

That made my Forte obsolete and I started using a DMC-122 Midi controller.

I like the action (even for piano as I'm not a trained pianist) and about 80% of the sounds are Samples in Sforzando.

After some bad experience with softsynths crashing live, I a only trust the mainstage intruments and even sample softsynths via autosampler into sforzando

 

I'm using an old Macbook Pro (Mid 2012) with a firewire RME interface, bought the DMC-122 second hand very cheap.

Sound identical to my Forte/PC3 setup, much easier to setup and a lot cheaper.

I bought a second Macbook Pro as backup.

Mainstage 3.3.4 (later versions are not as stable/low CPU)

Mainly around 20% CPU load

A sub 1500 euro setup, Very flexible and stable for one year

 

My upgrade path might be a more recent Macbook Pro (this would also lead to a newer RME interface) and Gigperformer.

The problem with gigperformer is that I have Mainstage setup in a way that I almost have 2 seperate controllers. My lower keyboard on the DMC is used for all kinds of pianos, top for the rest including splits.

I don't have 2 manual fixed setups. I can vary the sound per manual.

Gigperformer can do this with 2 sessions open, This is not as handy as Mainstage.

I also like the aliases in Mainstage, switching never takes time.

Gigperformer works great when a setlist is followed and you have a complete setup for mulitple controller keyboard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[UnderGroundGr]

K2661, my main board since 2004. I am waiting for the new K...

[RandyFF]

Interesting subject!!

 

I thought I was buying flagship/best of with the Motif XS7, but when I bought for $4,000 plus, all in, and sold for $1,400 3-4 years later, and had no real satisfaction with the board, I realized after the fact that I'd been much better off with a stage piano to get my feet wet. It's too damn pricey to have a learning curve that includes so much depreciation and lack of appreciation. As a noob at the time I didn't need flagship or best of, I needed basic but high quality. But that's the thing, I DIDN'T know. I only discovered this forum much later, and it also took me years to educate myself.

 

The balancing act of price, weight, quality of action and sounds is what determines how close to my optimal keyboard I get. I've already eliminated many of the outstanding boards out there because of the weight. Price is an effective barrier as well, the above $2000 boards are out of reach, unless we're talking used. And the action is so damn important- I love my Korg Pa1000 arranger to bits, kick aaaaaass sounds, killer rhythms and accompaniments, but the action doesn't inspire. And to get that action, I'd need a board that's 2xs the cost, weighs more than I want to schleep, as well as other trade-offs, such as lacking the outstanding built-in speakers.

 

It's a crazy good time to be playing music!!!!! I remember when the Korg M1 came out and I explained to someone that you'd never need to upgrade, the sound was already at CD level! I was very well informed!

 

But now, you can buy a DP with reasonably good action and sounds for under $500! And the increase in sound quality is ASTOUNDING compared to what was on offer for most of the last 30 plus years. My Pa1000 arranger sounds so good I've had to ask many people, is this the new norm? Have many keyboards that have come out in the last 4-8 years jumped to a whole new level of realism and expressive richness? These days you can get a ton of sound quality without buying flagship boards.

 

The quality of keyboard action in contrast seems to be on a much slower trajectory, and it's still necessary in many cases to pay flagship prices for decent quality actions. MODX 6/7, FA06/7, Krome, King Korg, etc ad nauseaum, are not good actions if you have high standards or needs.

 

[J Graul]

Once: The Kurzweil K2600XS. My back says NO MORE!!

[PianoMan51]

Once: The Kurzweil K2600XS. My back says NO MORE!!

It was the K2500XS for me. My first and only workstation. I gigged with it for about six years, and gave up. Almost 80lbs. Then add a 35lbs hardcase. Might as well have been a Rhodes.

[jeffincltnc]

I believe I posted this elsewhere, but the style of music and performance has a lot to do with my feelings on this topic as well.

 

I play in a pop music band where I am standing up with a single keyboard just over waist high, some backup singing and some pad triggering and percussion. I don't really put a lot of importance into the flagship experience.

 

If I am playing more seriously (introspectively, artistically, in this case), i.e. jazz and seated for focusing more on piano, organ and technical synth playing, I am much more aware of my connection to the instrument and the musical expression than something that is more of an entertainment/party/dance band and the feel and responsiveness of the instrument really matters a lot more.

[Delaware Dave]

"..while I like some things about the TP/8 action over the TP/9, I can't stand stiff springs as a poor substitute for a proper weighted hammer action ..

The TP/8 was not meant to be a substitute for a proper weighted hammer action. The TP/8 was meant to be a semi-weighted keybed, somewhere in between synth action and weighted action. Some like its attempt at getting there, others don't. But if your reason for not liking it is because it doesn't emulate a weighted action bed, that's not the manufacturer's intention. The TP40 line of keybeds was the attempt at emulating weighted action.

 

[Delaware Dave]

Flagship status is irrelevant. I define my requirements and find the best tool to satisfy them. Budget is always one of those requirements, but not always the priority. This applies to more than keyboards as well.

This.....

 

[RandyFF]

Once: The Kurzweil K2600XS. My back says NO MORE!!

It was the K2500XS for me. My first and only workstation. I gigged with it for about six years, and gave up. Almost 80lbs. Then add a 35lbs hardcase. Might as well have been a Rhodes.

Wow! I hope you had help! I had a 2500XS as well, and for me it was strictly a 2 person move. And talk about early flagship experience- very deep but inscrutable, never learned to navigate beyond simple patch selection.

[cphollis]

A bit of both.

 

I came to appreciate having at least one flagship board in my arsenal as a kind of insurance. Since bands tend to come and go -- and their styles vary greatly -- I found it was useful to be prepared to be able to do a little of everything from a single board (in this case a Nord Stage 3 Compact). I'll then augment it in the areas I want to go deeper, e.g. acoustic piano actions, deeper synths, etc.

 

I've been watching resale values over at reverb.com, and so far so good. Until a Stage 4 comes out, that is.

[Mr. Nightime]

For the most part, flagship status means nothing to me. It's the sound, feel, utility, price, and schlep factor that weighs in more for me.

 

When I was in the market for a weighted action board, I took into account what the majority of my playing was. Mostly AP, EP, some horns, occasional strings, Clav on one or two songs. Then I checked out some of the options in store. After careful consideration, I determined that for my use, the Yamaha MM8 was the right board for me. The MM stands for Mini-Motif, and has many of the same sounds. The feel is just what I was looking for, and while a bit large, it is surprisingly light, so the schlep factor is good.

 

At this point, I am very happy with my purchase. It does everything I ask of it, and does it well.

 

As for Organ, that's a little different. I am a bit of a Hammond snob, I have had a Hammond in one form or another as part of my kit for over 35 years, and will always have one.

 

I used an XB-2 for a long time, until the Hammond pedal shorted out, causing smoke to come out of the board.

 

Since I used the XB-2 in church as well, the then minister of music approached the church board, and they purchased an XK-3C for use at the church. He told me that I could use it on gigs any time I wanted, as long as it was at the church when needed. Since I was the only person that played it, it was not an issue. The church still has it, and it's currently in the music storage room is a case that I donated.

 

My wife decided that she did not want me to use a keyboard that was owned by someone else, so the hunt was on for one of my own. I decided that I wanted dual manual, and that it have acceptable other voices so that I could bring just the one board to certain gigs. After a rather short search, I decided on the SK-2

 

Yes, I would prefer the SK-X for the dual drawbars, and yes, the AP is a bit of a compromise over the MM8, but I am happy with my choice. I'm currently working on the adjustments needed to accommodate two different configurations. My Classic Rock band, I'm mostly on the Yamaha. My Funky Blues band, mostly on the Hammond.

 

So, I'm working it out where one band, the Yamaha is on the lower tier, the other band the Hammond is on the lower tier.

 

[allan_evett]

Yes, for the most part. The Stage 3,76 I picked up in 2017 is one example. There have been exceptions, though; a few come to mind: MODX 8 (replaced a Montage 8, due to weight/space logistics); Jupiter 50, instead of Jupiter 80; and going back a few decades, Prophet 600, instead of Prophet 5. Though the Jupiter 50 has been a workhorse for eight years, the lack of display real estate/functionality and aftertouch has become wearying. If I had a do-over opportunity, the Jupiter 80 would be in my rig instead.

[Adan]

For me, logic generally argues against flagships for gigging. Flagship generally means "do-it-all," but that usually entails higher cost, higher weight, and compromises in one area or another. Flagships usually have excellent APs and EPs. That's good. But I usually build my rig around a dedicated Hammond clone. Of the do it all flagships, only Nord, Korg, and Kurzweil have clones. I'd rather have a Crumar or Viscount at the core of my rig. I like synths with dedicated knobs. Only the Nord Stage does that (though Fantom has joined the club). So getting a flagship when the only thing I love about it is APs and EPs doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

Workstation is a different analysis.

 

The new Fantom could work, but Roland would have to add the VR clone engine and it's not clear they will.

[J. Dan]

I've gone that direction over the years, not necessarily because I need everything in the flagship, but because I need one or two things that are only in the flagship, and I've developed an aversion over the years to bringing out a whole bunch of bits and pieces to hook together and get working. So all-in-one is preferred.

[stoken6]

I'm in the "all-in-one" club, and I've been burned too many times by not buying boards with the kinds of features that are only found in flagships: internal PSU, aftertouch, decent MIDI implementation, expression/mod wheel etc. But I don't seek out the flagships per se - often they are too heavy for me.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[synthizen2]

I've mentioned this probably several times in this forum... I tend to go with flagships, but ones that are 1 or 2 generations old (used), for budget reasons.

 

One exception is my MOX8, where I normally would have picked up a used Motif XS... but I preferred the low weight and smaller form-factor of the MOX series. This was one exception where I just decided to deal with the cheap plastic shell and the wall wart.