Stage piano recommendation

[sonic5397]

Getting back into gigging after a long hiatus. Last time I played out was about 25 years ago when an 88 key, weighted stage piano was an unobtainable dream. Now that I"m no longer traveling every week for my day job, I am looking to play out again. Mostly rock/blues covers. I"m also in the market for a good stage piano.

 

So, I went down to my local guitar center to try some stuff out. I"ve done a bit of research here on this forum and others, so I went in with certain expectations of what I would like and what I wouldn"t like, and I ended up totally surprised by what I found:

 

I was primarily looking at the Casio PX S-3000 (they only had the S1000, but the Keybed is the same), and...I totally hated it! My primary criteria is the keybed feel (15 years of classical piano lessons and I was a jazz piano major in college), followed by sound quality (and quantity) and then by 'stage functionality' - I.e. splits, layers, program changes,real-time parameter control,etc.

 

I then moved on and trie a bunch of others including: Roland FP-30, DS-88, RD-2000,and the Yamaha P45. Here"s what shocked me: I liked the feel of the 'older' SP the best. I liked the p45best, followed by the RD-2000, FP-0 and then the DS-88.

 

My budget is around $1,500.

 

So, any other recommendations (I"ll have to call around to see if I can find other places that carry some more brands)?

I"ve heard good things about the Kurzweil SP6, so I"m gonna lock for that. Any other recommendations that have the feel of the RD, P45 and the FP that"s might be overlooking? Of course I love the Nord

Stage but it"s totally out of my budget (and traction is a bit light for me). I"m looking for something with more sounds, MiDOut, etc.

 

Thanks!!

[CEB]

If $1500 is a hard budget limit then the SP-6. If not then 1800-1900 is a sweet spot. Use Sweetwater or Krafts no interest store card and look at the Kawai MP7se if feel is most important or the MoDX 8 if you can"t sacrifice a little feel for patch control strength and a huge sound pallet.

[dongna]

You didn't mention how much weight you're willing to schlep. If 48 lbs. isn't too much, and keyboard feel is truly your top priority, the Yamaha P515 might be a fit. (It might be a little light on additional sounds though.)

[mate stubb]

First, lower your expectations. All gigging musicians agree, that the actions in these lightweight portable pianos are nowhere as responsive as a real grand piano. Then, pick your poison...

[Jazz+]

I"m confused , you liked the old SP best? Would that be the Korg or the Kurzweil? What did you hate about the PX-S1000, too heavy? I find the FPs to be heavy and slower.

[Bobadohshe]

for $1500 why can't you pick up a used Yamaha CP4 which mops the floor with many of the boards on your list?

[gg22]

Considering the actions you liked and the requirement to have more sounds, I would look at the following boards:

Yamaha MODX8

Kurzweil PC4

Roland FA-08

Korg Grandstage

[ElmerJFudd]

Getting back into gigging after a long hiatus. Last time I played out was about 25 years ago when an 88 key, weighted stage piano was an unobtainable dream. Now that I"m no longer traveling every week for my day job, I am looking to play out again. Mostly rock/blues covers. I"m also in the market for a good stage piano.

 

So, I went down to my local guitar center to try some stuff out. I"ve done a bit of research here on this forum and others, so I went in with certain expectations of what I would like and what I wouldn"t like, and I ended up totally surprised by what I found:

 

I was primarily looking at the Casio PX S-3000 (they only had the S1000, but the Keybed is the same), and...I totally hated it! My primary criteria is the keybed feel (15 years of classical piano lessons and I was a jazz piano major in college), followed by sound quality (and quantity) and then by 'stage functionality' - I.e. splits, layers, program changes,real-time parameter control,etc.

 

I then moved on and trie a bunch of others including: Roland FP-30, DS-88, RD-2000,and the Yamaha P45. Here"s what shocked me: I liked the feel of the 'older' SP the best. I liked the p45best, followed by the RD-2000, FP-0 and then the DS-88.

 

My budget is around $1,500.

 

So, any other recommendations (I"ll have to call around to see if I can find other places that carry some more brands)?

I"ve heard good things about the Kurzweil SP6, so I"m gonna lock for that. Any other recommendations that have the feel of the RD, P45 and the FP that"s might be overlooking? Of course I love the Nord

Stage but it"s totally out of my budget (and traction is a bit light for me). I"m looking for something with more sounds, MiDOut, etc.

 

Thanks!!

 

Not surprised with your assessment of S1000/3000 action for acoustic piano playing. I share it whole heartedly.

 

$1500 is a tough spot new if you"re picky about action.

I"d keep an eye out for a second hand Yamaha CP4 now that it"s been usurped by the CP88.

 

New try a Casio PX-360 or 560 - different action than the S1000/3000.

The MODX8 is ok. But you"re paying for the variety of sounds, splits, layers not the action.

I"d say the same for the Kurzweil SP6.

But you need to try before buy without a doubt.

 

 

[Outkaster]

CP88. Its a little more but more than worth it.

[sonic5397]

Sorry. Was trying to abbreviate. . I meant that I seemed to like the older stage pianos the best (i.e. the Yamaha p45 and the Roland FP-30). I"m thinking of maybe getting one of these and then stacking something else on top for synth sounds (neither my Roland D-50 or my Akai AX-60 are really contemporary enough, and I really don"t feel like dragging any of my rack gear (Alesis QSR, Emu Audity, Roland JV-2080) to gigs. Sound quality isn"t really there in these romplers either. I"m thinking of maybe getting a Yamaha MX61 for on top of the FP-30 or the P45 An FP-30 (or P45) + Yamaha MX61 (both used) would fit into my budget.

 

I still want to find a place (I"m in Northern California - Sacramento/Bay Area) to try the Kurzweil though before I decide.

 

Thanks for all the recommendations!!!

[AnotherScott]

It's also worth checking out the Kawai ES110 and Korg D1. Unlike most of the lower cost 88s, they have standard MIDI ports, so if you take the two-board route, you'd be able to use these to directly trigger sounds in your second board, which gives you a bunch of additional flexibility.

[stoken6]

If you like the keybed of the P45, then MODX8 is worth careful consideration. Good sounds (although tonewheel organs are weak) and strong performance functionality. Or MODX6 over Yamaha P45 (now that the MODX can act as a USB MIDI host with the latest OS) - I haven't priced that out, but it's a tasty rig.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[stoo schultz]

Keyboard feel is subjective, but for me (also 15 yrs classical piano) I'd say: for your budget the best key actions and best piano sounds are Yamaha P-515, Kawai MP7SE, Kawai ES8, Yamaha CP4, and Yamaha CP40. However these aren't the most sonically versatile boards -- there are many within your budget that are, including one whose action you like, the Roland DS 88. If you like that action, you'd also like the Roland FA-08, which has the same action. If you like the Yamaha P45, then you'd also like the Yamaha ModX, Yamaha MX88, and Yamaha MoxF8, which all have the same action as the P45 but are more sonically versatile.

 

If you want to pay a bit more, then the Yamaha CP 88 probably satisfies all your criteria. Also consider the Kurzweil SP6, whose action is in the range of those you like, but this might be hard to find in a showroom.

 

Alternatively you might want to go the route of getting a controller and module, in which case the Studiologic SL88 Grand is a good inexpensive hammer action (though heavier than the ones you tried), that you could use to control the Dexibell VIVO module or a virtual instrument set.

[BenWaB3]

I was going to suggest the Kawai MP7 as well (there is a newer version, the SE, so make sure that's the model). Ironic that I would say that since I have never gotten to sit down at one. But I have its predecessor, the MP6, & it's hands down the best action I've played. AnotherScott had also suggested their ES110. Just be aware that it doesn't have pitch & mod wheels. The MP6 has what is my all-time favorite Rhodes sound too. All of this, touch, sounds, etc. may have changed on the MP7 so that's why I can only speculate. Again it's all subjective - others may dislike the Kawai feel. But to back up your opinion on the Casio PX -S3000, I got one but sent it back to Sweetwater because I hated the feel of the action as well.

[LarsHarner]

The Yamaha P125 hasn't been mentioned as an entry/budget level DP. It both played and sounded half way decent.

 

 

 

.

 

I wanted to second this- I've had it since August 2018 and it serves me well for carrying out. There is a custom Yamaha case (note this keyboard at 6 1/2" inches is taller than most in its range)

I've had the P95 and P105 previously and the P125 has a clear sound, is only 25 pounds and has decent acoustic piano sounds and the Rhodes isn't bad. The Yamaha bag is cloth and only adds around 2-3 pounds.

 

I had a ES110 briefly and sent both back- broken keys, plus the bass response in the speakers was poor in my opinion.

 

*However, if you wanted a 45-48 pound piano right now I would recommend the ES8 by Kawai which I have had for 4 years-

 

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a comparison between the ES8 and P515? I have yet to see a P515 in stores.

[3rdAct]

The Yamaha P125 hasn't been mentioned as an entry/budget level DP. It both played and sounded half way decent.

+1

I have the P121 and found it to be quite reasonable -- especially given its price.

 

[jimkost2002]

If you"re doing rock and blues covers and are picky about action, I wouldn't mess around with anything but a CP4 or save up 500 more and get the new CP88. You can also plunk down your $1500 and pay the other $500 in 90 days or longer.

Reverb has a bunch of CP4s that look pretty good.

 

You didn"t mention what amplification you will be using. This is equally crucial. Remember, amplification takes the place of the piano"s sound board. Does your $1500 include amplification?

 

Both Yamahas have XLR inputs if you're going direct to PA. Also, Yamahas are easiest to find the live sweet spot, plus they cut thru a mix best in Rock or Blues.

 

Chuck Leavell could use ANYTHING and he STILL uses a CP4 with the Stones.

 

Nuff said.

[piano56]

 

 

*However, if you wanted a 45-48 pound piano right now I would recommend the ES8 by Kawai which I have had for 4 years-

 

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a comparison between the ES8 and P515? I have yet to see a P515 in stores.

 

The Kawai ES8 is my favorite among the more or less portable pianos, only one I tried where I felt like I could play hard classical pieces and enjoy the experience. My regular piano is a really good Steinway D, so I"m used to a fairly heavy action and the D sound (however you describe it, but NOT a bright pop music sound).

 

Folks love Yamaha...I tried the P515 and no offense to Yamaha fans, but didn"t like it at all.

 

I"m about to buy the ES8 so glad you still like yours.

 

[RandyFF]

The CP4 has been out awhile now, it'd be a safe bet to buy used, save yourself $500-700 off full pop.

[allan_evett]

A used CP4 would be a strong choice. A digital piano is a collection of compromises, but I feel Yamaha DPs offer the smoothest landing for the most players. I lean toward Yamaha more often than not, though in recent years I've done a lot of work using Roland SuperNatural-based pianos; sometimes that ends up being the best tool for the job. It's so subjective though; a fellow player might have a similar view between Kawai and Kurzweil. Still, I've met more folks that swear by Yamaha - versus others who have sworn at their choice of digital piano. You could also check out the Roland FP-60, or a good used FP-50; you might find that more to your liking than the FP-30. I've connected well with an FP-50, going on six years now.

 

The CP4 does have a collection of bread 'n butter alternate sounds - strings, horns, reeds, synths, electro-mechanicals (organs are a bit lean, but passable for a basic gig), etc.If a broader palette of sounds is needed, another good used/demo choice would be a Yamaha MOXF8 , or MODX8. Both have a graded key action, which is closer to that of an acoustic piano. A used S90XS (or S90ES) could also work, though the action is 'balanced' - evenly weighted, which is typically better for synths, but not as much for piano (though I didn't mind it).

 

 

[JPerry]

Another vote for the CP4 here. I have had one for five years now, and have been happy with it. The user interface is great for live performance - the five band EQ sliders are great for quick adjustments for different rooms, and the ease of switching between dual and split modes is appreciated too. The action is one of the best ones out there, imho - it's quick, responsive, and not tiring. Great AP and EP samples, great acoustic bass sample. The auxiliary sounds are just ok, but usable. Organs are a bit weak. I sometimes wish there were onboard speakers, but appreciate the relatively light weight of under 40 pounds.

 

The newer Yamaha P45 and P125 acquit themselves pretty well too - reliable actions and solid samples for the most part. I would happily use a P125. The old previous generation CF piano samples still hold up really well for live work, I think. Not as detailed and rich as the newer CFX and Bosendorfer samples, but solid in the mix, and collapse to mono fairly well. As others have said, the Yamaha samples seem to work very well for live work, being bright enough to hold their own.

 

Having said all that, I just spent some time with a Kawai ES8, and liked it a lot. Not enough to replace my CP4, but the action is superb, and some great acoustic piano samples. Detailed and quite sophisticated sounding. Might be a great choice for recording and live solo work, especially if playing classical selections.

 

Good luck! We're lucky as musicians to have so many good choices to pick from.

 

[Jazz+]

Perhaps some new contenders will debut on 1-22-2020

at NAMM?

[brenner13]

After decades of being a Roland fan boy then being snubbed by their parts department, I"ve recently fully embraced Yamaha as my new fave of the big three. Hopefully I won"t need Yamaha parts anytime soon and hopefully they"ll be available from the factory if/when they are needed (rant finished, for now).

 

I had a rare 90 minutes of down-time spent in a Guitar Center a few months ago and played nearly every keybed in the place. The CP88 was the one that had the most enjoyable feel and response on pianos and E.P."s. However I cringed at the Organ sounds in the thing. I don"t think I can enjoyably play Organ on weighted keys anyhow. I"m a life-long synth and rock organ guy that can only hack out a bit of piano when needed.

 

I really find the organs (and very deep synthesis) very convenient and fun to play with in my MODX7, but the keybed is far too shallow (and unweighted) for any ideal piano experience. However, I found the MODX88 keys too heavy for my liking at GC. My Kawai ES100 is a tad on the heavy side, but has an overall decent feel for when I think I need weights. Geez, I hope the CP has a different keybed than the MODX88 or my biases must be disturbingly coloring my rationale. If I should soon be in the market for a more versatile stage piano, the CP4, 73, 88 will probably be my short list. Kawai ES8 should be in the running, too. Dexibell also has my ear.

 

As mentioned so many times before, how one feels a particular instrument may represents the best compromise of what one needs it to do, is best determined by the individual"s time spent with each instrument.

[JPerry]

Considering Brenner's post, it might be worth mentioning that I've been a Yamaha keyboard guy for 25 years (except for my beloved Roland D-50 back in the 80's) and there were never any problem with the actions or the sensors in all that time. I played for years in rock and roll and country bands, and my old P120 and P100 suffered lots of abuse without complaint. My old Rhodes held up pretty well too, come to that.

 

 

[Coker]

A CP4 plus iPhone running Galileo Organ takes care of everything for me most of the time. The CP4 feels like home and I think actually makes me play better.

[Al Quinn]

A used CP4 is a good choice. I"ve had one for several years and enjoy playing it.

[Jazz+]

Why no love for the the Casio PX-S1000 or 3000?

[ElmerJFudd]

For me the PX-S1000 is remarkably slim. It"s also 1lbs lighter than a P125 and $50 less.

The key tops on the Casio feel fine, the up down travel of the key is less noisy and jiggly than its design on other PX instruments. But the slimness isn"t an important factor for me - and certainly not as a trade off for being able to trigger a note close to the fall board (where the S1000"s action is dead, utterly dead). The sleek and clean face plate looks great - but the interface isn"t intuitive and a total hassle when playing live - around the house more of an annoyance. So yeah at this price point I"d still point someone at a Yamaha P or a Casio PX-160.

At $1500 budget - I wouldn"t be looking at either. I"d be fishing for a deal on a lightly used CP4.

But as this thread and plenty of others affirm - those that learned on the acoustic piano (as opposed to the organ, or a synth) are just a picky bunch about how that 'hammer' swings and interacts with the timbre. Of course people can get good at playing on anything - even mini keys. Personal preferences of course.

[BenWaB3]

Why no love for the the Casio PX-S1000 or 3000?

 

A lot of people really like the PX's and a lot of people really dig the action. I just couldn't stand the action even after using the velocity curves. That certainly doesn't make me right & them wrong, it just shows there are a lot of different preferences out here. Someone had posted on another thread that it didn't cut through or have presence when they took it out on an appearance. I also found the same to be true on the one time I took it out. That could probably have been overcome with an extended number of jobs with it though. It does have a lot of features for sure. I did find it a bit frustrating though when they decided what effects parameters you could use the knobs for. For example it would have been good to be able to control the amount on the stereo tremolo but that wasn't one of the 2 features they let you control. For the price & especially considering the weight it is a very good value. For myself though I just couldn't get past the action.

[stoo schultz]

Why no love for the the Casio PX-S1000 or 3000?

 

I think the main reason is the action has springs -- I think the PX-150 has better action because the spring tension is much lower. My theory is that the PX-S reduced the weight of the hammers to bring in more control features at the same keyboard weight, but had to increase spring tension to make up the difference. So the action has a spongier feel than in the older boards.

 

Edit: also have to agree with ElmerJFudd: the S1000/3000 have close to shortest key pivot distance of all the boards, making them much harder to play close to the fallboard.