Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

Present and Future Improvements to MIDI


tfort

Recommended Posts

The biggest issue, especially with USB, is latency. That s why I still use midimodules via DIN and avoid using iPads and computers live. Having said that, some modules/keys are better than others also wrt midi latency. Second thing is resolution of parameters, 128 steps is simply not good enough for velocity.

 

So any changes to midi implementation and communication protocol must take into account the player experience. That is even and fast transmission of data combined with improved data resolution.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...


  • Replies 41
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Yesterday the MIDI Manufacturers Association ratified some of the updates to the MIDI spec proposed in November, including MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression) and MIDI-CI (Capability Inquiry). MIDI-CI enables Profile Configuration, Property Exchange, and Protocol Negotiation:

 

http://cdm.link/2018/02/midi-evolves-adding-expressiveness-easier-configuration/

https://ask.audio/articles/midi-adopts-ci-and-mpe-easier-to-use-more-expressive-synths-controllers-coming

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder how much of the next-generation MIDI will be able to be updated on existing boards. I had thought that the new spec might be on boards this fall, but Fortner thinks not this year.

 

Being able to update to the new spec with a system update seems like it might be a big enough feature that it could influence one's purchasing decisions this year. I'll certainly ask manufacturers about their plans/ability to update before buying.

 

I'm also hoping that the new MIDI's impending arrival partly explains the dearth of controller updates occurring right now. If Roland, Arturia, and Novation knew that automapping nirvana is right around the corner, maybe they held off updating the A-Pro, Keylab, and SL Mk II controllers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest issue, especially with USB, is latency.

 

There´s latency always when using digital technology.

Calculation needs time.

With USB, the main issue was jitter.

 

But it´s all relative and depends on "compared to what ?"

 

When comparing MIDI to analog clock in regards of latency and jitter, analog clock wins.

 

That s why I still use midimodules via DIN and avoid using iPads and computers live.

 

Same here.

But also w/ many MIDI modules, there´s latency and jitter.

It´s not evident latency and jitter comes from USB alone and always,- and it´s also not evident physical DIN MIDI is latency/ jitter free per se.

In real world, it all depends on build quality and design of the machine.

 

Second thing is resolution of parameters, 128 steps is simply not good enough for velocity.

 

I´m not sure.

It depends on the human ear.

In the past, there was a theory human ear can differenciate from about 15 steps of dynamic.

Today, the theory is human ear is able to differenciate from 1dB steps of dynamic.

I myself tried to express as much as possible dynamic steps playing on a weighted keyboard and a synth action keyboard in realtime and recording to a MIDI sequencer,- and I was surprised it was less than 15 steps within the range of 128 possible values.

 

There are so many variables like "what dynamic range do 128 steps represent in theory when playing what instrument ?"

 

Especially w/ instruments using samples it is questionable the range of 128 velocity steps isn´t enough.

How many layers of samples do you get on one key,- average ?

What´s the dynamic range between layers of samples before switching over to the next layer via velocity switch ?

 

And when it comes to instruments not using samples,- modelling instead,-

What´s the overall dynamic range of these instruments ?

And when it might be "128dB",- why in the world is a MIDI-resolution of "128" not enough when the human ear cannot differenciate any better than +/- 1dB ?

 

IMO, all the nitpick comes from using DAW sequencer apps, the big editors no one really needs except doing the big layouts for movies replacing a orchestra.

When playing live (or record) w/ 2 hands and 2 feet, I doubt one can manage to control a resolution of 128 dynamic steps precisely.

I´d agree on the resolution of 128 isn´t enough for pitchbend and other MIDI CC data stream because the human ear is extremely sensitive on pitch changes.

 

That is even and fast transmission of data combined with improved data resolution.

 

Well, I think they try the best,- they always did.

But there are the electronic components in the ballpark.

Manufacturers have to use what´s avaialable "today",- but "today" is the past since there´s some timespan between design and final assembly.

USB is fast enough running up to 4 MIDI ports down one line,- that´s 64 MIDI channels.

Standard physical MIDI is just only 16 MIDI channels.

 

It´s a trade-off.

USB is data packs being transmitted time stamped.

It the same as transmission of audio via USB being ASIO time stamped.

There´s jitter always,- and it´s typically for OUTGOING MIDI.

 

It doesn´t depend on the MIDI protocol because manufacturers will have to use the hardware components being available and they have to accept what a given OS does w/ their data when it comes to distribution to the hardware.

I´d say we´re talking "drivers" now ...

 

The baud rate of MIDI was slow always and it was still fast enough to create all kind of music on an ATARI machine using MIDI.

 

Since decades computer hardware manufacturers ignore or don´t have in focus realtime usage for music.

They don´t have to because we´re not the majority of computer users.

So all will be a compromize,- today and in future.

 

A.C.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...

As ADC looms next week, some next generation MIDI news is coming out. Native Instruments, Ableton, and other companies have joined the MIDI Manufacturers Association, ostensibly to "help shape a major update of MIDI.'"

 

An article at Synthtopia has the most detail, with some connected individuals contributing to the article comments as well. The article quotes the MMA: "The planned update to the MIDI specification will support new levels of musical expression and make electronic instruments easier to configure and use."

 

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2018/11/09/ableton-native-instruments-others-join-mma-to-shape-the-future-of-midi/

 

After last year's news with MIDI-CI, MPE, and even MIDI over minijack, I had hoped that next-generation MIDI would finally be announced during 2018, if even in draft form. In looking at the ADC schedule (https://juce.com/adc/programme), it seems that that a single panel on MIDI is the last session. With that in mind, plus NI and Ableton only just joining the MMA, it seems that while much of the future spec is undoubtedly fairly far along in its development path, it seems next-generation MIDI is still not that close to becoming a reality.

 

I hope I'm wrong and we see actual products announced (not shipping, ha) with the capability to have their firmware be updated for the impending MIDI 2.0/MIDI-HD/MIDI NextGen at NAMM 2019. Why does the future always seem to be just around the corner?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because when you turn one corner, there's always another corner just up ahead? And because if you turn the corner enough times, you end up where you started?

 

I'm surprised to hear that Native Instruments and Ableton weren't members of the MMA before now.

Michael Rideout
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Post- 2019 ADC (Audio Developers' Conference), MIDI 2.0 is starting to get fleshed out a little:

 

https://www.musictech.net/features/midi-2-0-what-mean-for-you/

Key quote from that article:

"MT: When can we expect to see commercially available instruments with MIDI 2.0 implemented?

BP: This is pure speculation on my part since manufacturers are not showing their cards yet, but NAMM 2020 isn"t too far in the future. There should be some prototype hardware and software on display in the MIDI Manufacturers Association booth, including the MIDI 2.0 Scope application that I"ve built for developers to use. There will also be two panel sessions at NAMM discussing it, both for musicians and for developers, and these will probably be the first time many people will be seeing details. I won"t be surprised if there are some early products starting to ship in late 2020 with more to follow at NAMM 2021"

 

 

The 2019 ADC presentations are available on Juce's YouTube account:

Day 1:

Day 2:

 

These seem like the most relevant MIDI-related presentations:

 

Mike Kent, Florian Bomers, & Brett Porter - Introduction to MIDI 2.0

 

Arne Scheffler and Janne Roeper - Support of MIDI2 and MIDI-CI in VST3 instruments

 

I watched the MIDI 2.0 talk, and there seemed to be some confusion about how MPE (and presumedly the MPE+ on tap from Haaken and the Osmose) fit in with the per-note controlling on offer from MIDI 2.0. Mike Kent (SynMike here) mentioned that the two would likely coexist as MPE does a few things not possible with MIDI 2.0.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

The MIDI Manufacturers Association is doing a little reorg ahead of MIDI 2.0 coming out in January. Nice to see that Anderton is involved:

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2019/12/29/midi-manufacturers-association-announces-changes-ahead-of-midi-2-0-adoption/

 

Looks like the MMA and AMEI have a set of events queued up for NAMM:

https://www.midi.org/articles-old/midi-2-0-at-the-2020-namm-show

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...