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Motion Sound KP612S vs. KP610S?


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You're welcome guys. Thanks for listening and providing your feedback.

 

Pianoman51, I get what you're saying about tweaking the EQ. I adjusted it so that it sounded good to me and then didn't touch it as I switched amps. I agree it would have been better if I tweaked it so that each amp sounded it's best. I had the KP-610S tone controls set flat, but don't have a good reason for why I did that.

 

Kurzfan, as I recall I had the CP4 EQ sliders set to -2 -4 0 0 0 (going from left to right). It seems I always need to at least cut the mid lows on the CP4. I didn't tweak the mid high for the video but I sometimes do when playing with drums and sometimes I decrease the bass slider further when playing with a bass player.

 

effusion, yeah "more nuanced transients." That's a very good description of what I hear too. That's actually what I'm referring to when I say they sound really "clear." I have an SSV3 and agree that it doesn't do AP's justice. Of course, the SS V3 brings us into a much lower price range.

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  • 1 year later...


This might be a little off topic but has anyone done a comparison of the 610 versus Spacestation for AP? I have the latter and am somewhat baffled because sometimes its sounds terrible to me, yet fine on gig recordings. However, I really want something that sounds good to me while performing so the distraction factor is gone.
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This might be a little off topic but has anyone done a comparison of the 610 versus Spacestation for AP? I have the latter and am somewhat baffled because sometimes its sounds terrible to me, yet fine on gig recordings. However, I really want something that sounds good to me while performing so the distraction factor is gone.

 

I have the SSv3 and KP610. I also have a Behringer B1200D powered sub that goes underneath either one. To me, the sub helps a lot in making acoustic piano more pleasurable to listen to, but not nearly as good as the KP610, with or without the sub (although the sub just makes the KP sound that much better). I know what you mean as far as the SS sounding great sometimes and not so much at other times. It must be due to the placement of the cabinet. The SpaceStation is very dependent on its surroundings. The KP doesn't care what's behind or on either side, it just sounds good. Better for AP. On the other hand... When it comes to stereo imaging, and given the fact that the KP is actually a stereo amp/spk cab, the SpaceStation smokes the KP when it comes to rotary speaker effects or stereo tremolo, delays, etc. The KP is a fine sounding amp and it does help that it is stereo. But the SpaceStation creates far more width and space to the sound. Therefore I have been contemplating using the powered sub on the bottom, the KP610 on top of the sub and the SS on top of that. Overkill? Nah.

Wm. David McMahan

I Play, Therefore I Am

 

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i had an MS kp 500s for about a week . the stereo effect as well as volume was remarkable but i just couldn't dial in the midrange for organ or piano , had to return it .is the newer 610 a noticeable

improvement ? , i like the form factor a lot , but tone makes the deal .

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I've loved the sound of the KP612s since I picked one up from a forum member last year. CP4 pianos sound great, as do Mojo 61 organs, and when I've played full band gigs with it, guys in the band notice the better sound in the mix. One thing that helped me settle on buying the amp without having a chance to sit down with it first was Al Quinn's high-end video recording (check back a page or just search google video results).

Numa X Piano 73 | Yamaha CP4 | Mojo 61 | Motion Sound KP-612s | Hammond M3

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Since this quasi-zombie thread is alive again, I will ask: I was looking at the Motion Sound when I ended up getting the SS3. I liked the smaller footprint and beautiful swooshy sound, and have used it for north of 500 gigs and countless additional rehearsals and other services. I still love the quality of sound for the size of the SS3, generally speaking.

 

I do have things I am still not fond of with it, though. One is the inconsistency across frequency ranges and types of sounds. It's infuriatingly idiosyncratic across the range. But another is that I frequently want more of a direct finger-to-noise hit on my eardrums of the sounds I am making, without that "trust me it sounds beautiful and even elsewhere in the room" mediating factor. I can never get the amp to honk right at me on stage, when the competing sounds are guitars/cymbals/drums etc which hog up the range I need to hear myself in. To accomplish this with the SS3, you have to turn the width down, at which point it's sort of a crappy speaker/stage monitor, comparatively speaking.

 

For those who have or have experience playing both the KP610S (which is as large as I would go), how would you compare the SS3 with it? I'm curious how they might compare in 1) rehearsal situations, with no PA help, 2) Solo/duo/trio situations, where your amp might be your sole sound source, and finally 3) As a stage monitor when FOH is covered by the mains and you are only using it for stage ref, often on guitar-heavy or otherwise noisy stages?

 

Thank you and I will take my answer off the air.

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
www.joshweinstein.com

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  • 7 months later...

Hi. I’m new on here. This is the only thread I’ve found that discusses the MS KP610s. I’ve recently purchased a brand new KP610s from Musician’s Friend and am pretty happy with the sound so far. Early days. However, what was immediately concerning when unboxing and setting up was the pots. Firstly, they were sticky. I don’t mean sticky to touch, I mean sticky to turn. They were all set at zero out of the box, and with many of them I had to apply a fair bit of force to get them to move. Once I’d got them unstuck, they moved smoothly, but I’ve never had sticky pots like that with any gear before. It felt weird and wrong. 
 

Also, again with the pots, they are all wobbly. This is something I often see with various keyboard/amp reviews. The reviewers make a point of noting whether the pots wobble or or not. With the high end stuff, the reviewer often praises the product for having solid and well made pots. So the pots on this KP610S were ‘sticky’, they wobble, plus they kind of look and feel cheap. 
 

Also, the side handles, again feel cheap. Kind of thin plastic that bends and moves when I pick it up. 
 

So far, it sounds good, but for a $1400 amp, I’d expect high quality across the board. It’s evident they’ve cut costs with the things I’ve mentioned, so I really hope they haven’t cut costs with the areas ‘under the hood’.
 

I had to wait a few months while the amp was on back order, so I’m wondering if they’ve sacrificed some quality in order to meet the demands and get the batch out ‘quickly’. Has anyone here bought this amp recently and noticed similar quality issues? Did these amps that were made last year or before have these issues? 
 

 

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9 hours ago, Andy said:

Hi. I’m new on here. This is the only thread I’ve found that discusses the MS KP610s. I’ve recently purchased a brand new KP610s from Musician’s Friend and am pretty happy with the sound so far. Early days. However, what was immediately concerning when unboxing and setting up was the pots. Firstly, they were sticky. I don’t mean sticky to touch, I mean sticky to turn. They were all set at zero out of the box, and with many of them I had to apply a fair bit of force to get them to move. Once I’d got them unstuck, they moved smoothly, but I’ve never had sticky pots like that with any gear before. It felt weird and wrong. 
 

Also, again with the pots, they are all wobbly. This is something I often see with various keyboard/amp reviews. The reviewers make a point of noting whether the pots wobble or or not. With the high end stuff, the reviewer often praises the product for having solid and well made pots. So the pots on this KP610S were ‘sticky’, they wobble, plus they kind of look and feel cheap. 
 

Also, the side handles, again feel cheap. Kind of thin plastic that bends and moves when I pick it up. 
 

So far, it sounds good, but for a $1400 amp, I’d expect high quality across the board. It’s evident they’ve cut costs with the things I’ve mentioned, so I really hope they haven’t cut costs with the areas ‘under the hood’.
 

I had to wait a few months while the amp was on back order, so I’m wondering if they’ve sacrificed some quality in order to meet the demands and get the batch out ‘quickly’. Has anyone here bought this amp recently and noticed similar quality issues? Did these amps that were made last year or before have these issues? 
 

 

two or three sticky knobs is the first thing i noticed on my 610 . on close inspection i believe the skirt on the knobs were hitting a high spot on the sheet metal , either that , or they are slightly cocked and sit on the panel a tad off 90 degrees . they did loosen up . yea , the side handles are cheap junk with nothing to grab . the amp is quiet though , and i like the tone , one thing , though , the expander effect doesn't seem as dramatic as i remember on the KP500 i've played on a few years ago . maybe it

has to do with the smaller speakers being closer together ? anyway , i'd say the tone is a big improvement over the previous generation 

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5 hours ago, bill bosco said:

two or three sticky knobs is the first thing i noticed on my 610 . on close inspection i believe the skirt on the knobs were hitting a high spot on the sheet metal , either that , or they are slightly cocked and sit on the panel a tad off 90 degrees . they did loosen up . yea , the side handles are cheap junk with nothing to grab

 

MS's motto:  "Motion Sound Amplifiers - The Worlds Finest Keyboard Amplifiers"  I wonder what 'finest' is supposed to mean.  Best sounding?  Best manufactured with the best parts? Best design?

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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14 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

 

MS's motto:  "Motion Sound Amplifiers - The Worlds Finest Keyboard Amplifiers"  I wonder what 'finest' is supposed to mean.  Best sounding?  Best manufactured with the best parts? Best design?

 

Maybe it means endorsed by Superman and Batman.

 

Screen Shot 2022-03-04 at 9.58.57 AM.jpg

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Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Or our fair city, aka the Whale’s Vagina.

 

I have also had some “build issue” sticky notes in my mind about mine, overlapping with the above. Cheap pots, and handles that seem sure to rip off mid-carry some day. Plus I have had some questions about the integrity of the box itself.

 

It still sounds fantastic, though.

 

Maybe the bulk of the R&D has been on sound, rather than a “gigging musician’s” interaction with it? Maybe the pots are nice and even at the factory and they never had to really challenge the handles there…?

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
www.joshweinstein.com

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1 hour ago, Delaware Dave said:

 

MS's motto:  "Motion Sound Amplifiers - The Worlds Finest Keyboard Amplifiers"  I wonder what 'finest' is supposed to mean.  Best sounding?  Best manufactured with the best parts? Best design?

 

Well, compared to Roland KC, Peavey KB and Behringer K Series... best sounding for sure. To get something sounding better, you'll end up going to powered monitors with tiny or no mixers.

Moe

---

 

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  • 2 months later...

I didn’t like the hiss, sticky and wobbly pots, cheap handles, and general cheap construction, but lived with it as long as it sounded good, which apart from the hiss, it did. Notice I’m using past tense. When I turned it on yesterday, MASSIVE pops, crackles and noise. Like, even with all volumes down at zero it was deafening. Sending it back. 

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  • 7 months later...

Since this seems to be the Motion Sound thread I'll report here that I got a 408S.  Very happy with it.  Came to my door yesterday, used it on a gig last night in a 100-150 capacity room.  With a moderately loud rock back the 408S was plenty loud and that was at half volume, so the 408 is no slouch for volume, and it was completely clean.  EPs and organ sounded clear and crlsp.  More than enough bass for keys in a supporting role, but would probably add a sub if keys were holding down the bass.

 

Early assessment -- love this keyboard amp.  I used to have a KPS500, which sounded great but was too heavy.  The 408S will serve me well, and the I think the price is quite reasonable.  The 408's started out at $999, went up to I think $1299 for awhile, and now are $999 again.  Mine was a demo from Sweetwater for $899.

 

I had debated the 408 versus the 610, but I feel I made the right choice with the 408, saving a bit of weight and about $500.  in any situation where the 408 isn't loud enough I'd be running to FOH anyway.  On the rare occasion I need more bass I'll bring my Fender Rumble.

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Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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1 hour ago, Adan said:

I had debated the 408 versus the 610, but I feel I made the right choice with the 408, saving a bit of weight and about $500.  in any situation where the 408 isn't loud enough I'd be running to FOH anyway.  On the rare occasion I need more bass I'll bring my Fender Rumble.

 

That's pretty much been my philosophy. For 10+ years, I've usually played through 8s, and if I was doing LH bass on a gig where the bass needed to crank, I'll add my Markbass lightweight bass amp, which is going to give me even more of that "real bass guitar" feeling than if I'd had 10s in my main speaker. As the old TV series said, for me, eight is enough.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I'm of a different mindset, mostly due to the fact that I'm frugal.  I couldn't see investing in multiple amplification units, one type for small gig, another for large gigs, another if I'm kicking bass.  I rather spend once on something that can cover all of the variables, that is why I settled on my ELX-112P.  I can kick bass with that 12", no sweat.  Yet it covers all types of possible gigs, small, large, whatever.  One investment, not multiple and find out when I get to the gig that the circumstances change and now i have the wrong amplification.  Mine covers all the aspects that I need.

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1 hour ago, Delaware Dave said:

I'm of a different mindset, mostly due to the fact that I'm frugal.  I couldn't see investing in multiple amplification units, one type for small gig, another for large gigs, another if I'm kicking bass.  I rather spend once on something that can cover all of the variables

 

For most of my gigs over the last decade, I used an EV ZXa1, If I was playing LH bass, I'd add the bass amp to the ZXa1. So there was no investment redundancy, just a decision as to use one piece or both.

 

1 hour ago, Delaware Dave said:

find out when I get to the gig that the circumstances change and now i have the wrong amplification.

 

I know before I leave the house whether or not there's a bass player on the gig, so there's basically no chance of a wrong choice. In short, I'm not bringing different gear to different gigs; just different amounts of it depending on what I'm hired to do. 

 

And I do happen to just like the sound of LH bass through a dedicated bass amp, to me it somehow just has something extra, whether its due to the the sonic performance of a system designed for that purpose, or the fact that it's coming from a different point in space, whatever.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with your approach either, of course. The reason I prefer my approach is that, for 80% of the gigs (i.e. when I'm not playing LH bass), all I need is the 19 lb EV, whereas you're bringing a 37 lb speaker to every gig, whether you need its increased low-end oomph or not. When I do need to bring a bass amp, it's another 26 lb box, but I don't usually need to bring it, and when I do, arguably, a 19 lb box plus a 26 lb box is still easier to deal with than a since 37 lb box. But obviously, there are people younger and stronger than me, where 37 lb is no issue at all. So as they say, different courses. :-)

 

But yes, I agree, it also may not be the most frugal approach.

 

And I actually do have some alternate systems I use. If I'm hired just for a solo cocktail hour thing, absent a board with loud enough built-in speakers, I'll connect a little 7 lb amp, which I discussed at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/180136-keyboard-for-soloduo-ceremonycocktail-hour/page/3/#comment-2929586 where you can see why I use it instead of the ZXa1. And I've also done some small gigs (typically drumless trio) where I'm also supplying the PA, and I put my keys right into that rather than bring any separate keyboard amp at all.

 

ETA: On gigs with no bass player, I usually pack the bass amp... but depending on things like the size of the band, size/population of the room, and requested song list, once I get to the gig, I may choose to leave it in the car. Even the ZXa1 by itself handles LH bass surprisingly well. 

 

 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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  • 1 month later...

Think I might've bought the last kp-610s from Sweetwater. Hopefully there's not a new and improved model coming soon.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KP610S--motion-sound-kp-610s-650w-2x10-inch-keyboard-amp

 

 Haven't gotten to try it with loud band yet, but alone it gets loud and sounds warmer (for organ esp.) than my 2 K12's. Setup/breakdown should be a breeze. 🤞

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2 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

I wonder who got my weird one. Someone out there did...

Hopefully not me ;) 

Day 1, had to toothpick trick in 1 of lil rubber feet on bottom, and it occasionally makes a faint hiss for a minute when idle. But not too worried ‘bout it.
Got a tuki cover for chilly nites. 

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On 1/13/2023 at 2:36 PM, mate stubb said:

 

 

How does acoustic piano sound through it?

Regarding APs, I think my report would be consistent with what others have said.  I find the APs to be ok through the 408.  I'm sure it's possible to get a more transparent sound with powered speakers, but APs through the 408 don't sound so colored or compressed that it's a distraction. The 408 is usually just my stage monitor.  If I'm using it as my sole source of amplification, then it's probably a small enough gig that no one is going to pick apart whether my digital keyboard sounds like a real piano.  So it's all good.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Woah, Motion Sound comin' in hot!  So much information there, it's going to take time to digest.  And needless. to say, the conversation will go on for many pages.

 

For now, Dave Ferris gets the Keyboard Corner gear hound dog award.

 

My first reaction to the 4 speaker versions is, when would I need that?  Even my little 408 is loud enough for a pretty sizeable room.  In any room it can't handle I've probably got a PA to run it to.  

 

My second thought it, wouldn't it be great to create my own wall of stereo sound . . .

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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Well, this is the first time I remember buying something and then a new version comes out a 40 days later. . (guess it had to happen once)

 

Differences I notice so far between S --- SX:

 

43 lbs --- 46 lbs

 

Eminence Beta-10A --- Faital Pro speakers (anyone know difference? I remember from owning guitar amps that Eminence makes some pretty cool speakers)

 

SX says "Equally suitable for both hardware and software instruments" -- my 610S does annoying USB hum when Key Largo is running software instruments, but not when YC88 is using USB audio. 

 

Total power: 650 watts RMS  --- 500–1,000W design with 250 watts RMS per channel

 

 

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also there's a price increase: $1399 --- $1699

 

Someone on Talkbass forum says Faital has a higher crossover rate, leading to clearer highs. Bassists equally like the Eminence speakers for the punchy lows. 

 

Played first gig (jazz combo in very small theatre, vocal PA) with KP610S yesterday and it did real well. (better than i did :p)

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2 hours ago, octa said:

Well, this is the first time I remember buying something and then a new version comes out a 40 days later. . (guess it had to happen once)

 

Differences I notice so far between S --- SX:

 

43 lbs --- 46 lbs

 

Eminence Beta-10A --- Faital Pro speakers (anyone know difference? I remember from owning guitar amps that Eminence makes some pretty cool speakers)

 

SX says "Equally suitable for both hardware and software instruments" -- my 610S does annoying USB hum when Key Largo is running software instruments, but not when YC88 is using USB audio. 

 

Total power: 650 watts RMS  --- 500–1,000W design with 250 watts RMS per channel

 

 

the  MS 610 i bought a year and a half  ago has Faital speakers in it . unless the the new four speaker amps have alot better sound quality , i can't

see the justification  for the extra weight , i might be shopping around for a 2101 MK2 instead 

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