sustain pedal problem

[lsj]

need some help here. I am using fl studio 20.5 DAW. I have my Yamaha modx6 as my controller. I have a Yamaha FC4A sustain pedal hooked up to my modx6. works perfectly for the modx and some of the plug-ins in my DAW. works with some arturia sounds(synthesizer) Garritan strings, and many other plug-ins I have. I try to use the sustain pedal with NI pianos, fl studio pianos and it doesn't work. instead of sustaining it makes the notes stucatto. stucatto is probably the best way I can explain the sound. I have wrote to the NI site and someone told me to purchase one of those cheap square sustain pedals. when I hooked that one up, the polarity was wrong and had no switch to change the polarity. hopefully someone out there will have an answer to this problem.

[Mike Warren]

This seems odd to me. Did the square pedal work, but backwards, or did it do the same as your other pedal (but in reverse)?

 

The FC4A is just a switch pedal so simply sends CC64 at a level of 127 for on and 0 for off.

 

 

[Mr. Nightime]

It sounds like more of a setting issue with NI. It should be getting the pedal information through the controller, so the make/model of the pedal should make no difference, especially since it's working with other plugins.

 

[lsj]

hello Melbourne, Tequesta(Jupiter Florida here) It's not an issue with NI since it is working with Arturia 7 collection of instruments also garritan strings, and other plug-ins that I have but not these plug-ins when I call up a Piano sound. Arturia 7 works when I call up synthesizer sounds but when I call up a piano patch and hit the sustain pedal the sound of the piano cuts out, like a stucatto sound. need help...â¦.Larry

[EscapeRocks]

Larry, which jack do you have the pedal plugged into on your MODX? Assignable, Sustain, Foot 1, or Foot 2. Also, are you using a different program on the MODX when controlling the pianos? It's possible something is mapped differently in the MODX program. This a very easy to happen, depending how any particular program's parts are setup vis-a-vis pedals.

 

Also, it can very well be an issue with the software. Just because it works on some doesn't mean it works on all.

 

What Kontakt piano are you using? From what you describe, it is either sending a different CC# from the MODX, or NI and Arturia are remapping it internally to something else.

 

Have you tried running the plugins stand alone and not thru FL? That's another way to narrow down where the issue is generated.

[J. Dan]

Could it have something to do with them looking for half-pedaling, which other sounds ignore?

[lsj]

have it plugged into the sustain jack. doesn't make sense that a loaded plug-in works with other sounds but not the piano. the piano sounds from the plug-ins that came with fl studio and Komplete 12 pianos.

[lsj]

discouraging, most of my problems that I post are never solved.

[Reezekeys]

If there's any way, insert a midi monitor in the stream right before Kontakt or whatever plugin is playing the pianos. I would want to see if there is any extraneous or conflicting midi data coming into the plugin.

 

I found this, for Windows: https://www.kvraudio.com/product/midi_monitor_by_rs_met

 

This is a Mac midi monitor plugin (in a bundle with some other ones): https://www.kvraudio.com/product/mfx-series-by-audeonic-apps

 

Or, if you can split off the midi before Kontakt, use IAC to send to a standalone midi monitor (we're talking Mac here , not sure if there's an equivalent in the Windows world).

[Markyboard]

I have wrote to the NI site and someone told me to purchase one of those cheap square sustain pedals. when I hooked that one up, the polarity was wrong and had no switch to change the polarity. hopefully someone out there will have an answer to this problem.

 

Did it work other than being reversed? That is when the pedal was up did it sustain and when it was down did it release, specifically with the problem software pianos?

 

Also please confirm that your Yamaha FC4A has a TS plug and not a TRS plug.

[lsj]

the cheap pedal sustained without depressing it. depress it and it stops sustaining. plug is just TS plug. played arounf with the plug-ins today and found it working with the piano patches that came with the DAW . not the ones from NI.

[Markyboard]

the cheap pedal sustained without depressing it. depress it and it stops sustaining. plug is just TS plug. played arounf with the plug-ins today and found it working with the piano patches that came with the DAW . not the ones from NI.

 

 

Please allow me to summarize as it helps me understand what"s happening. And if I got anything wrong please correct me but try to be very clear.

 

Based on what you"ve stated the cheap pedal works - other than functioning in reverse. It is a 'normally open' (N/O) switch which means without pressing the pedal the connector plug"s Tip and Sleeve is open , i.e. not connected to anything which results in sustaining the notes. When you press down on this cheap pedal the plug"s Tip and Sleeve is shorted and the notes no longer sustain. This is true for all of your software pianos including NI.

 

The Yamaha FC4 is a normally closed (N/C) switch meaning the plug"s tip and sleeve are shorted when not pressing the pedal. When you press down and on the pedal the Tip and Sleeve should be open. When you are not pressing the pedal everything works as expected, i.e. no sustain. When you press the pedal however you"re getting funny things happening with NI pianos (stacatto notes). This tells me your MODX is not seeing a true open between the Tip and the Sleeve when pressing down on the pedal. If it was it would behave exactly like the cheap pedal does in the up position.

 

I suspect there is a problem with your FC4 pedal or cable- perhaps a soft short or some resistance between the contacts when there should be none. Try a different FC4. Whatever midi data/value is generated by the MoDX in response to this soft short is handled differently by each of your soft pianos. This is why some of them work right and some don"t.

 

 

 

[lsj]

to markyboard. thank you for the very lengthy response. I plugged in an On Stage sustain pedal with the same results. loaded NI Pianos and still getting the cut-off, stucatto sounds. the modx is sustaining properly HELP...â¦â¦..Larry

[Mr. Nightime]

The reason I thought it might be the NI Pianos that is the issue is, according to what you are saying, the pedal works with everything else. plus you have the same issue with multiple pedals. that points to an issue with the piano patch itself.

 

Is it all the possible piano sounds that is having the issue, or just one in particular?

 

Has the sustain ever worked correctly?

 

Is there a possible update to the patch that might correct the issue?

 

It could be a setting issue within NI

[Markyboard]

Wow - OK this is strange. I now agree with Ronnie (aka Mr Nighttime) and also second Reezekeys suggestion that you put a midi monitor right before the Piano plug-in in Fruity Loops. I'm not familiar with this DAW but there should be a midi monitor available - maybe even built in to FL?

 

Also when you say NI Pianos which pianos are you talking about? I googled NI Pianos and nothing comes up with this specific name. Is it the pianos in the Factory Library? I looked at the ones I have from the library (used with Reaper) as well as Maverick and Una Corda. Don't see any kind of sustain pedal control that would cause this issue but maybe something set in Kontact itself? Also possibly a note-off is being sent when the pedal is engaged. Just guessing (which I hate to do) but this is where the midi monitor would be really useful.

 

Have you tried deleting and reloading that plug-in in FL?

 

Fear not - we will figure this out.

[Markyboard]

hello Melbourne, Tequesta(Jupiter Florida here) It's not an issue with NI since it is working with Arturia 7 collection of instruments also garritan strings, and other plug-ins that I have but not these plug-ins when I call up a Piano sound. Arturia 7 works when I call up synthesizer sounds but when I call up a piano patch and hit the sustain pedal the sound of the piano cuts out, like a stucatto sound. need help...â¦.Larry

 

 

This is important and I missed it early on. The fact that your sustain pedal works with other sounds and not with pianos from the same software bundle is strange. Even stranger is this is true not only for NI Komplete pianos but also for pianos that were from Arturia as well as pianos that came with FL. Are these all using Kontact? That"s where I would focus.

 

I just took a quick look at a few selected sounds from NI Library within Kontact and then looked at some pianos. I notice that when you open a piano 'instrument' as opposed to say a guitar ' instrument' the number of allocated voices is 256 vs 16 or 32. Using the sustain pedal eats into those available voices. Check to see if your # of allocated voices looks similar to mine. I suspect that your stacatto is due to voices being cut off. Maybe your system is limited or maybe it"s just a setting in Kontact or FL.

 

[Mr. Nightime]

 

Have you tried deleting and reloading that plug-in in FL?

 

 

That was what I was thinking when I mentioned a possible update to the patch. Maybe something became corrupt during installation, and deleting and reinstalling might bring in a clean copy that would clear the issue.

[lsj]

hi, i'm his computer guru trying to see if i can do anything about this, so the problem that i'm seeing is that if I use kontact komplete control vst for any reason, his sustain pedal is not working for any reason, but when I load up arturia vst directly there is no problem that I can find. the sustain pedal works perfectly, I've gone through the settings for kontact komplete control and kontact player and for the life of me I can't find any settings that would control the petals directly through the vst itself. if anyone can please give me an idea for what i'm looking for. it doesn't make sense to me why it would work with 1 vst and not the main vst.

 

thank you.

[Markyboard]

 

hi, i'm his computer guru trying to see if i can do anything about this, so the problem that i'm seeing is that if I use kontact komplete control vst for any reason, his sustain pedal is not working for any reason, but when I load up arturia vst directly there is no problem that I can find. the sustain pedal works perfectly, I've gone through the settings for kontact komplete control and kontact player and for the life of me I can't find any settings that would control the petals directly through the vst itself. if anyone can please give me an idea for what i'm looking for. it doesn't make sense to me why it would work with 1 vst and not the main vst.

 

thank you.

 

Did you see my last post regarding voice count settings? Also this is the first time you"ve stated using Komplete Kontrol and Kontact Player. I"m not familiar with Komplete Kontrol but I assume you can specify the voice count for each VST (maybe in properties). It might be helpful to configure your setup to use Kontact Player without using Komplete Kontrol. Try to narrow down where the problem is by eliminating as many candidate causes as possible.

 

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

Have you tried plugging the pedal into a different jack, like foot 1 or foot 2 or some other assignable input jack and assign CC64 to that jack and see if you can get sustain to work that way?

 

The only other thing I can think of is to purchase a cheap sustain pedal with a polarity switch. You indicated that the cheap one you are using the pedal works backward. Return it and spend $16 on the one below. It has a polarity switch, so if the pedal is sustaining when the pedal is up then just flip the switch and you'll be good to go.

 

https://www.amazon.com/RockJam-Universal-Electronic-Keyboards-Anti-Slip/dp/B01C5G2UYK/ref=asc_df_B01C5G2UYK/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312155614707&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=807737216407516239&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007454&hvtargid=pla-564062424170&psc=1

 

 

I seem to recall the FC4a being a half-pedaling sustain which would explain your issue. Looking at recent pictures on the internet would suggest that it is not due to a TS plug that I see in the pictures vs. the TRS required to pull off digital half pedaling. I'm guessing that the pictures are not accurate and that the FC4a does half pedaling and this the reason for your issue.

[Markyboard]

The pedal is not the problem - we've eliminated it as the cause. Also the FC4a is just an on/off pedal. FC3 does "half sustain".

[lsj]

agree the pedal is not problem. when I load Komplete Kontrol the sustain pedal is not working on all of the sounds in NI. when I get out of and just load the sounds in the Komplete plug-in, the sounds perform better, but the sustain pedal does not work, with pianos and all of the other libraries in Komplete 12. I was wrong earlier, it's not only the Piano voices but everything in NI. I would really like to use Komplete Kontrol as I can load all of the favorites(plug-ins) that I have. HELP...â¦â¦...Larry

[lsj]

in addition if load the plug-in Komplete Kontrol and try a sound from Arturia it is not working, but if I cancel Komplete Kontrol and load the plug-in directly to Arturia, all the sounds have the sustain pedal working properly. Has to be NI.

[Markyboard]

Hey Larry -

 

Can you run the Komplete 12 Library without using Komplete Kontrol? It sounds like Komplete Kontrol is the problem but this would definitely confirm it.

 

Are you in the US or able to phone me in the US? If so and you're interested you can call me while you're in front of the computer in question. Send me a PM if this is possible and we'll arrange a time.

 

- Mark

[lsj]

for markyboard. I live in south florida and my telephone number is 954-274-6631

[Markyboard]

Hey Larry ( and anyone else following along)

 

After our phone discussion this morning we now know the problem is not with Komplete Kontrol since the sustain pedal issue happened when configuring Kontact directly in FL. We then figured out that Kontact itself is also not the problem since the sustain pedal works fine with the stand-alone Kontact version.

 

I since Googled "Sustain Pedal Problem in Fruity Loops" and there's a whole lot of problem reports. This is probably the most relevant info I could dig up. I see similar post on the FL site but I don't have complete details since I'm not a member. Lots of bits and pieces though - maybe useful.

 

 

To get an actual sustain pedal to work properly (i.e. to trigger MIDI Sustain events instead of just holding out notes longer) in FL Studio you have to first disable "support hold and sostenuto" in the FL Midi Settings, then go to the piano VST you're using (in my case Omnispher), click the dropdown at the top left of the VST, click Browse Parameters, scroll down to MIDI CC#64, right click, Link to Controller, and then press and release your sustain pedal and hit OK.

 

Hopefully this steers you in the right direction.