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Which Windows DAW?


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I just spent several hours playing with Samplitude. I got more done in the first hour with it than I did in a couple of days with Reaper.

 

So decided to buy it. Cost me AUS$260.11 and installed and registered fine.

 

It's now 3:11 am and I have to get up for work at 7 so I guess I'd better get to bed.

DigitalFakeBook Free chord/lyric display software for windows.
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I just spent several hours playing with Samplitude. I got more done in the first hour with it than I did in a couple of days with Reaper.

I loved WinAmp and really wanted to love Reaper since it was written by the same guys. But I just couldn't get with the workflow and it seemed needlessly difficult or cumbersome to do really basic things. They should have called it Raper because that's what it'll do to your whole day.

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Oh, and thank you very much, Bill for posting that. You saved me a decent amount of money.

 

 

For $200 I may have to pick that up, too. Thanks Bill!

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One thing that can be an initial stumbling block in Studio One-- at least, it was for me-- is that you can't simply connect your keyboards to your computer and use them in Studio One the way you can in some other DAWs. Of course, some DAWs do make you set up or configure your MIDI devices in the DAW, so this isn't unique to Studio One-- but you do need to understand how it works.

 

To add (i.e., configure) a MIDI device in Studio One, click on the "Configure External Devices..." link on the welcome screen, which opens the "Options" window and takes you to the "External Devices" tab. Click the "Add..." button and you'll get the "Add Device" screen, which lists a number of choices in the left pane, starting with "New Keyboard," "New Instrument," and "New Control Surface."

 

The "New Keyboard" option is the one you use for setting up your keyboard as a MIDI controller-- i.e., for MIDI INPUT.

 

The "New Instrument" option is the one you use for setting up your keyboard as an external MIDI instrument-- i.e., for MIDI OUTPUT.

 

If you plan to record your keyboard's MIDI, as well as sequence MIDI to your keyboard, then you'll want to set it up (at least) twice-- (at least) once as a "keyboard" for sending MIDI from the keyboard to the DAW, and (at least) once for sending MIDI from the DAW to the keyboard.

 

The default is for all 16 channels to be received or sent, but if you need to restrict the MIDI to a specific channel then you might want to consider setting up the keyboard multiple times under each option. For instance, one configuration could be for accepting all 16 channels from the keyboard, and another could be for accepting just one particular channel.

 

Of course, if your keyboard lets you specify which channel(s) will be transmitted or received then you could handle this on the keyboard side. But if your keyboard doesn't let you control this adequately on the keyboard side then you might want to set up multiple configurations in Studio One so it's easier for you to control it on the DAW side.

Michael Rideout
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Is there a DAW package that will read my Cakewalk project files created in Sonar?

 

I'd be extremely surprised if any DAWs do that. They'd have to invest an awful lot of time reverse engineering the format.

 

I think the only way is going to be to export stems and/or MIDI files from Sonar. But it will still be a very manual process to get the data into another DAW.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update: Samplitude has problems with a number of General MIDI files, mainly pitch bends not sounding right.

 

Since I bought a PreSonus Studio 192 interface I tried Studio One. It's not perfect for me, even ignoring the SysEx issue, but it does work better from me than Samplitude and Reaper. I love the integration with the Studio 192 interface.

 

So I purchased the Studio One Pro crossgrade, which is down from US$299 to US$199 at the moment.

 

Looks like I've got no other choice but to use more than one DAW, although I rarely need SysEx, so Studio One will probably be my main program.

 

DigitalFakeBook Free chord/lyric display software for windows.
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That's a tricky question. I think I remember seeing cases where a NRPN could do the same thing as a specific SysEx message-- but it is up to the manufacturer whether or not they want to do that sort of thing.

 

And I sincerely hope the industry as a whole isn't going away from SysEx, because even if manufacturers decide to scrap SysEx in favor of NRPNs or something else, that still leaves all the older equipment that still makes heavy use of SysEx.

 

Just because some of the "newer-ish" DAW makers have decided not to include SysEx support in their DAWs, doesn't mean that the industry as a whole is moving away from SysEx-- although it's a bit troubling to see, IMHO.

Michael Rideout
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I have used them all, and own most of them. Digital Performer was the one I chose when I bought my first computer, and is why I bought a Mac instead of a Windows box, even though I had no prior Mac experience, and nearly pulled my hair out trying to simultaneously learn OS 9 and OS X without a user manual or an internet connection to search on-line.

 

My runner-up at that point was SONAR, which had just been freshly minted from the Cakewalk do-over and thus made me nervous about long-term stability, but I took immediate note that the two companies were practically adjacent each other in my previous home town (Boston metro area) and had chosen separate single-platform targets.

 

I have a traditional, linear workflow, as I already have everything in my head before I start, and have a tape background. Those are the two, along with Tracktion (which has changed names and owners again recently), and Pro Tools (which didn't have MIDI until recently), that most closely follow that workflow.

 

I have found StudioOne extremely difficult to learn, but this is because I have very specific things I want to do and how to work on a project, so it may just not support my preferences. I use it primarily as a quarantine for new plug-ins, VI's, and updates. I have heard that it is a good tool for auditioning MIDI drum loops though -- this is one thing that is hard in DP and requires several manual steps (though I've learned some tricks).

 

Reaper nearly gave me a nervous breakdown when I tried it early on. I prefer applications that have an artistic vision behind them, vs. open-ended toolkits that you use as building blocks to essentially create your own app. Also, it didn't like my SysEx files at the time. This was in the very early days. I cannot vouch for what the current edition is like.

 

I finally bought Cubase last year, as I was going crazy trying to fix an unfixable bug in the free AI version packaged with many Yamaha products -- a Mac-specific issue at the time. Cubase has changed a lot, and has a lot of advanced MIDI functions that go beyond the other apps. But I still haven't really made it part of my regular workflow. It is said by many to be the best at drum editing and auditioning.

 

Logic is still the most unreliable one for me -- I lost hours last night, getting it to launch without crashing, after the latest update. But of course it has been Mac-only since Apple bought it from eMagic, so is not of interest to the OP. It does have highly advanced MIDI features, which I use extremely frequently, such as being able to convert Note On values to MIDI CC's so that legacy MIDI tracks, or even new ones generated from a keyboard vs. a wind controller, can become good input for libraries.

 

Ableton Live struck me as being the opposite of what I need, as it didn't seem possible to use it as primarily a multi-track audio recording platform (e.g. for tracking 20 drum mics at once). My impression was that it thinks in terms of one audio track at a time. As its focus is more MIDI in a sense, it might be a good tool for working with SysEx files, debugging them, resaving a files that can be consumed elsewhere?

 

I have not used the Windows version of DP; just the Mac version. From what I see on the MOTUnation forum, it seems mature now and as reliable as the Mac version.

 

Digital Performer is the one DAW that I have at most 1-2 crashes a year at startup, during plug-in validation. This is on the Mac, of course, so maybe the reliability comparisons between DAW's on Windows would be different. I find it shocking that Apple's Logic still -- even after this week's update -- is the worst at plug-in validation and other startup crashes of any DAW. Maybe it's lucky for the OP that it isn't available on Windows.

 

I've been curious to see how the Magix/Sony thing plays out. I almost bought Samplitude, but there were lots of caveats and support seemed limited. It would take me a while to find my detailed documentation of what all went wrong during the demo copy that I had, and what other experts said at the time. That was two years ago (almost), so feedback from more recent users is way more valuable, such as Bill Heins above.

 

The brand new release of Pro Tools may finally make it a realistic contender for people doing heavy MIDI work. I have only briefly skimmed its release notes. I didn't go Pro Tools way back, because I needed MIDI, but still don't own it (though I've used it a but on other people's computers) because my track count is sky-high and thus so would be my usage fee. They've been reformulating their licensing though, so I may still consider adding it at some point. Be aware that PT thinks only in mono tracks, which can actually be an advantage as it makes hidden Pan Law settings less of a problem.

 

This is meant to be an overview vs. a detailed view, of the main DAW's that are for both audio and MIDI at the professional level. There are others that are known to not have high-end audio quality (e.g. Reason). I have worked with all of those as well, but consider them being oriented more for DJ, electronica and rap specifically.

 

StudioOne may end up being the cheapest one to get into and grow with, if it meets your needs. I personally feel that the most recent editions of Cubase (which I previously disliked strongly, ten years ago) and all editions of Digital Performer, have the most flexible workflow, within the construct of an application that is focused and has consistent and cohesive design goals. I suspect they are also the strongest at MIDI.

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  • 1 year later...

So here we are nearly 2 years later and I'm still in the same boat.

 

I struggled with Samplitude Pro and Studio One Pro for a while and then life got in the way and I have done almost no MIDI work for over a year.

 

I've recently starting to look into this again and would really like to solve my problems.

 

I've been using Cakewalk by Bandlab, and that has the most efficient workflow of the 3 DAWs for my tasks. But it still lacks some functionality which can cause mistakes when working quickly.

 

I had to purchase a basic ASIO compatible interface recently for a specific task and chose a Steinberg UR12. That comes with Cubase AI so has given me an opportunity to dip my toes into the Cubase pool for the first time in many years. Cubase AI certainly doesn't cover my requirements, but it appears from my research that Cubase Pro may.

 

I asked some questions on the Cubase forums a few days ago, but haven't had an answer yet so I'm hoping a Cubase Pro used may be able to help me. Anyone here experienced with Cubase 10.5?

 

 

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I am not going to claim that Waveform will do what you need done.

That is research you will have to do yourself.

 

I will say that I've been using it for many years (it used to be Tracktion) and I find it very easy to work with and very versatile.

I do a bit of MIDI but primarily audio. There are tools for MIDI that I have not looked at once.

 

It is an intuitive interface with an emphasis on remaining visually uncluttered.

 

www.tracktion.com

 

There is a free download for Tracktion 7 as a complete DAW but they are well into version 10 now.

Still, it is visually very similar so you can take it for a spin at zero cost and research if it can do what you need.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Well...Sonar has since been bought by SoundLab, and is now available as a free download called Sonar by BandLab (here: https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk). The core functionality of Sonar has been preserved, but you don't get all the third-party bells and whistles (Melodyne plug-ins, etc.).

 

Is there a DAW package that will read my Cakewalk project files created in Sonar?

 

Sonar by BandLab will read your older CW projects.

 

I bought a copy of Reaper when CW went down, but these days I use Sonar and Reaper side by side.

 

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I will say that I've been using it for many years (it used to be Tracktion) and I find it very easy to work with and very versatile.

I do a bit of MIDI but primarily audio. There are tools for MIDI that I have not looked at once.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I've installed it and will test it out later.

DigitalFakeBook Free chord/lyric display software for windows.
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I am not going to claim that Waveform will do what you need done.

That is research you will have to do yourself.

 

I will say that I've been using it for many years (it used to be Tracktion) and I find it very easy to work with and very versatile.

I do a bit of MIDI but primarily audio. There are tools for MIDI that I have not looked at once.

 

It is an intuitive interface with an emphasis on remaining visually uncluttered.

 

www.tracktion.com

 

There is a free download for Tracktion 7 as a complete DAW but they are well into version 10 now.

Still, it is visually very similar so you can take it for a spin at zero cost and research if it can do what you need.

 

Can't agree more. Waveform/Tracktion has served me well during all these years (since T2, also through the dark Mackie years). Super simple interface and extremely fast workflow.

 

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I am not going to claim that Waveform will do what you need done.

That is research you will have to do yourself.

 

I will say that I've been using it for many years (it used to be Tracktion) and I find it very easy to work with and very versatile.

I do a bit of MIDI but primarily audio. There are tools for MIDI that I have not looked at once.

 

It is an intuitive interface with an emphasis on remaining visually uncluttered.

 

www.tracktion.com

 

There is a free download for Tracktion 7 as a complete DAW but they are well into version 10 now.

Still, it is visually very similar so you can take it for a spin at zero cost and research if it can do what you need.

 

Can't agree more. Waveform/Tracktion has served me well during all these years (since T2, also through the dark Mackie years). Super simple interface and extremely fast workflow.

 

Ahhh, I'm NOT alone!!!! :- D

Started with version 3 I think, it came gratis with a Mackie interface. That set up got me going quickly after years of discouragement with Digital Performer. I'm sure it's a good program but I just didn't bond with the GUI at all. Too "swiss army knife with all blades out all the time". I LOVE how Waveform "cleans up after itself" clicking on the thing you want to adjust brings up the parameters in the same box on the bottom where the last thing was and the next thing will be when you click on that. Just simpler visually and fast to get work done. Cheers, Kuru

 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I am not going to claim that Waveform will do what you need done.

That is research you will have to do yourself.

 

I will say that I've been using it for many years (it used to be Tracktion) and I find it very easy to work with and very versatile.

I do a bit of MIDI but primarily audio. There are tools for MIDI that I have not looked at once.

 

It is an intuitive interface with an emphasis on remaining visually uncluttered.

 

www.tracktion.com

 

There is a free download for Tracktion 7 as a complete DAW but they are well into version 10 now.

Still, it is visually very similar so you can take it for a spin at zero cost and research if it can do what you need.

 

Can't agree more. Waveform/Tracktion has served me well during all these years (since T2, also through the dark Mackie years). Super simple interface and extremely fast workflow.

 

Ahhh, I'm NOT alone!!!! :- D

Started with version 3 I think, it came gratis with a Mackie interface. That set up got me going quickly after years of discouragement with Digital Performer. I'm sure it's a good program but I just didn't bond with the GUI at all. Too "swiss army knife with all blades out all the time". I LOVE how Waveform "cleans up after itself" clicking on the thing you want to adjust brings up the parameters in the same box on the bottom where the last thing was and the next thing will be when you click on that. Just simpler visually and fast to get work done. Cheers, Kuru

 

No, you're definitely not alone. There seems to be a hard core fan base and a lot of new users since they started adding features in the Waveform versions. But, as mentioned above, the free versions (which is the full releases from just a few years ago) work perfectly. I'm not upgrading each year anyway.

 

Rock bottom bass

Fakebook Pro Sheet Music Reader - at every gig!

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Cubase can load general MIDI files and the full version comes with HALion SE, which is basically a Motif in software form. When you load general MIDI files, it automatically loads an instance of HALion and assigns the tracks to the GM sounds. HALion is 16 part multitimbral.

 

 

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Cubase can load general MIDI files and the full version comes with HALion SE, which is basically a Motif in software form. When you load general MIDI files, it automatically loads an instance of HALion and assigns the tracks to the GM sounds. HALion is 16 part multitimbral.

 

 

Thanks for the reply Jim.

 

I've have been playing with Cubase AI that I got with an audio interface and have ordered an eLicencer so I can trial Cubase Pro. it's not looking like it will arrive before Christmas, which will be annoying as I have 8 days off then and will have time to properly evaluate programs.

 

I'm finding limitations for the workflow i want within Cubase AI and am hoping Pro will be better. Most significant at this point is that getting a click track requires recording the hole thing in real time. Cakewalk also has this limitation.

 

The limited version of HALion which comes with AI is different, but on par, sound quality wise with TTS1 for GM sounds, IMO. Not fantastic, but usable.

 

I've found out how to use Cakewalk's TTS1 in Studio One (and other DAWs) so that has solved one of my problems with Studio One. It will render a click track in a couple of seconds, but it's main stumbling block at this point is that more complex MIDI files will not import properly. There is a trick of loading the file into another project and copying and pasting the data, but that requires a lot of manual reconfiguration. This seems like a crazy and arbitrary limitation. Smaller MIDI files import well.

 

My initial playing with Tracktion 7 is not yielding useful results, but I'll persevere for a while in case it's just because of my inexperience with it.

 

 

DigitalFakeBook Free chord/lyric display software for windows.
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no one using fl studio 20?

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

That one has flown under my radar. Having a quick look at the web site, it might be worth trialing.

 

Do you know if it can render the metronome to an audio track instantly? If it can I'll definitely trial it.

 

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