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Hammond B-3X for IPad
#3019812 12/17/19 01:05 PM
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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Jinkings #3019813 12/17/19 01:09 PM
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How about learning to play the real thing. I wish everyone could have that ability as it really helps with perspective. I love Hammond products but the Guy looks kind of ridiculous.

Last edited by Outkaster; 12/17/19 01:10 PM.

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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Jinkings #3019814 12/17/19 01:24 PM
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$100 makes it the priciest iOS MIDI-instrument app I've seen (I think up until now, that honor went to Colossus Concert Grand at $50). Maybe that was part of the rationale for making the desktop app a pricey $300 (in the range of triple its main competitors), it does make the iOS version seem like a good value by comparison!


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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Outkaster #3019816 12/17/19 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Outkaster
How about learning to play the real thing. I wish everyone could have that ability as it really helps with perspective. I love Hammond products but the Guy looks kind of ridiculous.


It’s an advertisement for a product designed for folks who don’t own, have access to, or won’t be using the real thing for one reason or another. IK will sell significantly more copies of B3X to guys like the one in the video than to Hammond purists and my guess is their advertising team knows it.


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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Jinkings #3019819 12/17/19 01:56 PM
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I get that I really do. It's just weird to look at it........god I am getting old.


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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Jinkings #3019821 12/17/19 02:06 PM
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Do the controls play nice with legend solo and NE5D?

Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Outkaster #3019822 12/17/19 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Outkaster
How about learning to play the real thing. I wish everyone could have that ability as it really helps with perspective. I love Hammond products but the Guy looks kind of ridiculous.


I wish I had access to one to learn as well, but I don’t.
When you think about it, a controller and iPad is no more ridiculous than, say, a Nord, especially one with drawbuttons. Neither is authentic...

Even at $100 there may be some value to this...


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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Outkaster #3019834 12/17/19 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Outkaster
I get that I really do. It's just weird to look at it........god I am getting old.


like
Old enough to remember the glory days of the Hammond B3!

I'd love one. It isn't practical for me, as I haven't a place to keep it, nor time and money to fix one up and maintain it.
I don't like the ergonomics of a pair of m-audio keyboards with the drawbars and switches on an iPad touch screen. But it's a pretty inexpensive setup to get into playing a dual manual organ.
Like a Yamaha P-45. It's something to start on.


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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Jinkings #3019843 12/17/19 04:54 PM
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I have Galileo 2 which is not too bad, so the question that those of us using IOS - is the B3-X @ 10 x’s “better” for our specific needs. For my specific needs, using a good waterfall controller and the iPad to take to jam sessions. Galileo has been ok and able to cut through since I started using it this summer. When I picked it up for @ $4 on sale. I am still looking for a good light weight waterfall controller to bring instead of using either a Fantom X6, Prophet 08 or at times a Korg Radias.

Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Jinkings #3019859 12/17/19 06:52 PM
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Whether B-3X $96 better than Galileo (or $85 better than the current price of Galileo 2) will be a subjective decision, but to perhaps add some context, you can also ask whether a Mojo 61 is worth $499 more than a Roland VR-09B, or $399 more than a Numa organ 2, or $104 more than a Hammond XK-1c,


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Jinkings #3019864 12/17/19 08:14 PM
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Saw a great vid recently comparing the cheapest alto sax you can get on Amazon vs. one $4.5k (which these days plays surprisingly well compared to 10 years or more ago).
It's always subjective to the user, their expectations, their needs, their budget.


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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Jinkings #3019903 12/18/19 12:38 AM
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I have to admit, I'm pretty tempted by this...$100 is pretty pricey though!

This overview video and the demos on the website sounds pretty good. I would obviously like to hear some side-by-side comparisons with Galileo, which I already have...although seldom use.

Thanks for the heads up!

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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Jinkings #3019907 12/18/19 12:53 AM
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I'd like to have it, but I already own too much stuff I don't really need. ;-) At some point, it will probably go on sale, and I'll probably succumb...

If someone doesn't want to gig with a Mac/PC, and doesn't want to bring a whole other board to get a quality organ (in a rig that doesn't already include a clonewheel), this is still a lot cheaper than buying a Gemini module. Even if you have to buy the iPad to use it. (Though Gemini may also have a latency advantage, and has other cool features like the modeled EPs.)

But as I mentioned in my clonewheel shootout thread, I still like hardware. I like to be able to use physical drawbars that I can instantly make the sound sync to. High trigger point is another benefit you're unlikely to get in a VST/iOS approach. But if a gig doesn't justify bringing a clonewheel, this would be a nice option to have, since so often the iPad is there anyway.

One concern is that, someday, it will stop working. Some future iOS update will almost certainly break it eventually. I don't know how many years it will be, but unlike PC VSTs, you can't count on being able to use any iOS app indefinitely, since if an OS update breaks something, you can't roll back to a previous OS, nor can you even easily find used units on eBay that run old versions of the OS, or even necessarily get a repaired unit back from Apple with the same OS you had on it. Losing a $100 app that way would be kind of irritating...


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
AnotherScott #3019916 12/18/19 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott

One concern is that, someday, it will stop working. Some future iOS update will almost certainly break it eventually. I don't know how many years it will be, but unlike PC VSTs, you can't count on being able to use any iOS app indefinitely, since if an OS update breaks something, you can't roll back to a previous OS, nor can you even easily find used units on eBay that run old versions of the OS, or even necessarily get a repaired unit back from Apple with the same OS you had on it. Losing a $100 app that way would be kind of irritating...


So just don't update the iOS for awhile. Anyway, by the time the app may not be usable, it will have most likely paid for itself.
I happen to own the B3X on my new Mac Mini. It is wonderful. I already had the Leslie from iK (T-Racks ). I use that for more than just organ as well.
iK has really stepped up their game.


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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
EscapeRocks #3019929 12/18/19 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
So just don't update the iOS for awhile. Anyway, by the time the app may not be usable, it will have most likely paid for itself

None of my gear has paid for itself in many a year. I came to the realization recently that I could do every gig with the same stuff I was using 10+ years ago, and I'm quite sure I'd have gotten the same # of gigs at the same pay. I will not make a dime more if I gig with B-3X than if I gig with an organ sound I already have.

There is a limit to how long you can avoid updating iOS, though you can defer longer if you dedicate it to music and don't care about (for example) web browsing. Still, Apple will relentlessly push, and one day you'll hit the "ok to update" button by mistake. Or it will start acting flakey and you'll need to reinstall the OS, when it will put the new one on whether you want it or not. Or you'll need to get it serviced, and you'll get back an exchange unit with a new OS. You never really completely own an iPad. You have a license to use what Apple puts on it, and they have no obligation to keep letting you have what you had when you bought it.

But that hasn't stopped me from using one. For some things, it's still the best tool you can get.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
AnotherScott #3019939 12/18/19 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
So just don't update the iOS for awhile. Anyway, by the time the app may not be usable, it will have most likely paid for itself

None of my gear has paid for itself in many a year. I came to the realization recently that I could do every gig with the same stuff I was using 10+ years ago, and I'm quite sure I'd have gotten the same # of gigs at the same pay. I will not make a dime more if I gig with B-3X than if I gig with an organ sound I already have.

There is a limit to how long you can avoid updating iOS, though you can defer longer if you dedicate it to music and don't care about (for example) web browsing. Still, Apple will relentlessly push, and one day you'll hit the "ok to update" button by mistake. Or it will start acting flakey and you'll need to reinstall the OS, when it will put the new one on whether you want it or not. Or you'll need to get it serviced, and you'll get back an exchange unit with a new OS. You never really completely own an iPad. You have a license to use what Apple puts on it, and they have no obligation to keep letting you have what you had when you bought it.

But that hasn't stopped me from using one. For some things, it's still the best tool you can get.


unfortunately when you finally decide to update it - it will be just before Apple decides its the last update it will get. it will kill your battery life and you'll scour the internet for advice on what to tweak and turn off to make it run well on your aging iOS device. don't get me wrong. they make the best stuff and have the best apps that run on it - but their turn over cycle is too short.


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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Jinkings #3019946 12/18/19 04:41 AM
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It's amazing how hyper-critical this group is of EVERY product that comes out. Even those that the so called reviewers have never used.

As far as this, it's lousy $100.


David
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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
EscapeRocks #3019951 12/18/19 05:58 AM
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Nightmare thread!
Wait, wait, wait a minute. I “don’t really own my iPad”??
A simple mistaken update could wipe out all of my now hundreds of synths, piles of Rhodes, clones, and midi insanity...AU, AUV3? Everything?

Can’t be true.

Goodnight.

What’s that noise....? (iOS 22.4.7 auto installing)
Nightmare thread....leave me alone. Stop it!

Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
zukskywalker #3019963 12/18/19 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by zukskywalker
Nightmare thread!
Wait, wait, wait a minute. I “don’t really own my iPad”??
A simple mistaken update could wipe out all of my now hundreds of synths, piles of Rhodes, clones, and midi insanity...AU, AUV3? Everything?

Can’t be true.

Goodnight.

What’s that noise....? (iOS 22.4.7 auto installing)
Nightmare thread....leave me alone. Stop it!


It’s the developers responsibility on iOS to update their apps for the large majority of users that take Apple’s advice to always keep their devices up to date. IK has been an iOS developer for a long time and there’s no reason to think they wouldn’t be updating their apps for the foreseeable future. Heck the turn over of an iPad is under 5 years so your B3X purchase is good and follows you to your next iPad.

That said, if you stop updating your iPad before it’s last Apple recommended update and B3X is working to your satisfaction - and it’s the main reason you use the iPad. Don’t update and use it for as long as it functions. Which could be 10 years - but it will need battery replacement.

Nothing in life is free. Even a $100 app which seems like a lot on an App Store filled with freemium apps with in app purchasing.


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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
EscapeRocks #3019964 12/18/19 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
It's amazing how hyper-critical this group is of EVERY product that comes out. Even those that the so called reviewers have never used.

I'd say especially those they have never used. But more than here, I consider that the special hallmark of Gearslutz. ;-)

Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
IAs far as this, it's lousy $100.

That's something that always makes me hesitant about the "is such and such worth it" questions. A given amount doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. It's different to someone making $15k a year than $150k a year. It can be different to someone playing for $50 a gig than to someone playing for $500 a gig. But yeah. there's also a psychology to the perception of value.

Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Don’t update and use it for as long as it functions. Which could be 10 years - but it will need battery replacement.

Or keep it plugged in while you're using it. On a related note from my laptop experience, Apple doesn't make parts for old machines indefinitely, and everything is proprietary. So you end up getting third-party replacements that end up not having nearly the life of the originals.


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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Jinkings #3019965 12/18/19 01:07 PM
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Also keep in mind Apple takes a 30% cut from developers and IK has to pay Hammond/Suzuki whatever they agreed upon.


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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
ElmerJFudd #3019966 12/18/19 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Also keep in mind Apple takes a 30% cut from developers and IK has to pay Hammond/Suzuki whatever they agreed upon.

True... and psychologically, maybe some people would feel better about the price if they knew $30 was going to Apple and (just a wild number) $30 was going to Hammond, and IK was only getting $40 (as opposed to, say, GSI who gets virtually all of your $100 when you buy VB3 on your computer). But ultimately, either it's worth $100 to you or it's not.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
EscapeRocks #3019970 12/18/19 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
It's amazing how hyper-critical this group is of EVERY product that comes out. Even those that the so called reviewers have never used.

As far as this, it's lousy $100.


That's not my issue. My problem is people are going to start reviewing these types of products and never have the perspective of a real console. The presence alone the Hammond console has speaks volumes if you can get near one. It's more of the dumbing down of things that has me a little concerned.


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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Outkaster #3019972 12/18/19 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Outkaster
I get that I really do. It's just weird to look at it........god I am getting old.


Don’t get too old: https://youtu.be/i-CLYtSqBAU

Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
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I think this is a good app for me. I like to carry around a Roland FA-07 that is light and easy to carry for rehearsals, jamming and knock around bar gigs. The organs don't really cut it on their own for me and I was looking to pick up a Mini Vent and using the sub out. I think this may be a better approach along with the new Neo Soul Keys, MIDI to my Korg Plug Key and I'd probably get a nice upgrade to the internal Roland sounds for a fraction of the cost of a Vent.

It does say $100 is the "intro price" for a few months, and I am probably looking for a sale to pull the trigger for something less than that, though.


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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Outkaster #3019975 12/18/19 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Outkaster
My problem is people are going to start reviewing these types of products and never have the perspective of a real console. The presence alone the Hammond console has speaks volumes if you can get near one.

And playing a slab piano is not the same experience as playing a grand. And playing Moog's Model D app isn't even the same experience as playing a Behringer D, much less the real thing.

People will have different ways of using this app. For some people, it will give them better quality organ presets than are in their rompler, and that alone is useful. At the other extreme, some could use it to upgrade the sound in an older dedicated clone that actually might provide a lot of the same tactile/ergonomic experience of the real thing, short of the actual mass. (Heck, some even begin to approach the feel of the actual mass, like korg BX3 or a fully configured XK3 rig.) True, the reviewer's experience could color their impressions... but I'm not sure how important that is when most people who are reading the reviews and considering buying the product probably don't have experiences with the real thing either. "That's not how it's done" can eventually become "that's how people are doing it." I imagine people once said that people who drove cars with automatic transmissions didn't really understand driving. ;-)


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Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
Jinkings #3019976 12/18/19 03:29 PM
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I'm bought it. Didn't get to try it out with my viscount or Nord yet. My iPad was hooked up my Casio weighted keys, so not ideal but it sounds awesome.

Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
jeffinpghpa #3019977 12/18/19 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffinpghpa
I think this is a good app for me. I like to carry around a Roland FA-07 that is light and easy to carry for rehearsals, jamming and knock around bar gigs. The organs don't really cut it on their own for me and I was looking to pick up a Mini Vent and using the sub out. I think this may be a better approach along with the new Neo Soul Keys, MIDI to my Korg Plug Key and I'd probably get a nice upgrade to the internal Roland sounds for a fraction of the cost of a Vent.

Yeah... if you already own the iPad+interface (and don't have or want to gig with a laptop), even at $100, this is about the cheapest serious organ upgrade you could do. Based on hearing the VST version, i think it's way better than Galileo, and yeah, a lot cheaper than a Vent. OTOH, based on people's reactions to my clonewheel shootout thread, I'm not certain that a B-3X necessarily sounds as good or better than FA+Vent, because people like the Vent that much. OTOH, I remember reading at least one post (I think Jim Alfredson?) saying that IK Multimedia's Leslie effect was better than a Vent, and B-3Xs basic tone beats the FA to start with (at least it has CV!). There will always be some subjectivity to which organs sounds are better, and variations based on the style you play and the kinds of sounds you look for. But whether it's "best" or not, assuming latency performance is up to speed, I have a hard time imagining a gig scenario that wouldn't be perfectly satisfying to play with this app as a noticeable upgrade to what's in the FA... and $100 could be a bargain considering the other options (the Vent or even Lester K, a Gemini module, adding a dedicated clonewheel or integrating a laptop into the rig, or trading up from the FA to something else)... regardless of how it compares to other app pricing, this can be the cheapest path to take in absolute dollars to achieve one of the best results.

I'd be more inclined to seriously look at this approach myself if I didn't already own a Surface Pro and B-5... which I still haven't even gigged with. For gigs, so far I've stuck with whatever's in the boards I bring, which sometimes includes a clonewheel and sometimes does not.

So getting back to cost, at $100, I'd want to have a high expectation of using it. If it were $25, I'd have bought it already, just to have it available to play with. But in some scenarios, I think you can certainly make the argument that it's still not a bad value at $100.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
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I ain't rich. In fact I probably have less income than many here. $100 doesn't seem like that much dough to me. That's maybe half a bag of groceries here in Ca. That's less than 2 thanks of gas. That's a week of lunch money. If the app makes a gig better or is a reliable back up that seems reasonable. My beef is with the iOS needing to be v11.

Re: Hammond B-3X for IPad
AnotherScott #3020002 12/18/19 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
I'd like to have it, but I already own too much stuff I don't really need. ;-) At some point, it will probably go on sale, and I'll probably succumb...

If someone doesn't want to gig with a Mac/PC, and doesn't want to bring a whole other board to get a quality organ (in a rig that doesn't already include a clonewheel), this is still a lot cheaper than buying a Gemini module. Even if you have to buy the iPad to use it. (Though Gemini may also have a latency advantage, and has other cool features like the modeled EPs.)


This MAY be me...but I'm not going to spend 100 bucks if I'm not sure. If I keep my MODX7, an ipad connects easily and has midi and audio with one cable, and no latency that I can feel. No need for a separate stand for a laptop (though the modx works great with a laptop as well, I've tested it). Whether I'd need/want a better organ depends on whether I keep my Electro. Considering (trying to) sell the modx and the electro to get a stage. I just love the Nord build quality....

If this does go on sale, I may take a flier on it. To me they are priced too far above most of the IOS market but I'm sure they've done their research.

Last edited by Stokely; 12/18/19 06:25 PM.
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