Keyboard options for an art center's studio/music space

[JeebsFat]

Hello!

 

I'm helping to setup a small two-room studio/music space at a new art center that has largely visual art studio spaces but it's setting up two small rooms for music. One room is a ~12ft square, and the other is about ~7x10". The rectangular room will host a studio desk with a computer/monitors/interface/microphones while the square room will have a some seating, music stands, mic stands, space for drums, and will remain somewhat open and modular and partly serve as an additional multitracking room for the console in the smaller room. The square room is getting a digital piano of some kind, for which I'm looking for suggestions.

 

The center has started working with a high school band director who suggested a Yamaha p-45 for $600. I've played these and really am not a fan of their feel, sound, or functionality. They only have a tiny handful of unimpressive sounds. Yes, this space will need a basic digital piano that serves piano teachers, music therapists, small classes, practicing students and choirs and jazz trios. BUT, the space will also be a modest but fully functioning studio used by younger folks, electronic producer types, rappers, DAW kids, folk artists, rock bands and whoever to produce whatever. It seems like a digital piano that has more a full and varied soundset and functionality would go much further than a p-45. We'll have a separate midi controller keyboard for the rectangular room with the computer station, so I'm just asking about what we should put in the larger square room. I would guess 88 keys, fully weighted is a must.

 

I'm trying to present options and so I'm looking for something in the 500-750 range, something in the 750-1100 range, and something in the 1100-2000 range. I'm unconvinced spending more than 2000 will get us anything but diminished returns, and I would bet around 1000 is the sweet spot.

 

Thanks for any and all related or unrelated advice! Cheers!

[AnotherScott]

Built in speakers important or not? (P45 has them.)

[David Emm]

AnotherScott is right, more details about the environment and support gear, please. (Proper powered monitors? Bad guitar amps? 2 cords for keys already tied into a small mixer?)

 

Its easy to casually say "Roland RD-2000 or a Yamaha CP73" for their broad aspects, but with the latter retailing at $2K, you do pay for the added powers. You also need a workhorse, because its going to take a bit of a beating in that environment over time. If you live near a music store that's worth a bleep, try out whatever they have and get a feel for the span of options. You might get lucky and find an acceptable compromise at a store that will cut you a deal to blow it out the door. Most of us would recommend a Nord Stage easily, but it stomps on your budget. Don't worry, just tell us more. There's a good choice within reach.

[PianoMan51]

With that wide a group of potential users, a high priority is a very simple UI. If there are hidden settings that can trip up the casual user, then somebody"s going to press the wrong buttons and you-know-who (probably you) will be called on to fix 'that damn digital piano'.

 

In other situations (senior centers and churches) I"ve seen potential users shy away from digital keyboards because the buttons and sliders are overwhelming.

[JeebsFat]

Gotcha, thanks. I'll try to elaborate. Details are just starting points and are still flexible/coming together.

 

The small room will have studio monitors and a hybrid audio interface/mixer, (thinking a tascam model 16 or livetrak l-12 which folks could operate in the small room as a control room or move to the large room to run with the band) So the large room will likely have no speakers, amps, or mixers built in or dedicated to it other than keeping a large but basic Bluetooth speaker for teachers playing examples, play-alongs, what have you. Still, it's probably best that the digital piano has its own built-in speakers for simplicity's sake. Folks recording would be monitoring via headphones through our mixer/interface or via their own amplification.

 

I think the p-45 would be fine, but I'm still hoping to find more than the 10 sounds it has, for the creative person needing more variety. And maybe more than just a headphone output?

 

Thanks again!

[JeebsFat]

Agreed. A simple and approachable UI is very important. Thanks!

[RandyFF]

You've got a larger selection to choose from than many on this forum. Because you aren't worrying about how much it weighs, you can get an 88 note with a great feeling action.

 

Built-in speakers can be wonderful, but pretty much all the boards under $1,000 are pretty inadequate, esp if that's your main source of amplification. AFAIK, you're in the $1,500-2,000 range for quality speakers, action and sounds. How high are your ceilings?

 

In your position I would want to have something like the Yamaha P-515, which has 2 way speakers and is driven by 40 watts. (Although the wattage of the amps driving the built-in speakers are not an absolute measuring tool for loudness or sound quality, they at least give a good starting indication). Then, if you needed on occasion more volume, you add a small speaker, like the QSC K8.2, which would give you a better-than 2.1 kind of system, with more bass and fullness than just the onboard speakers could provide. The Yamaha, has very high quality sounds, but only 40 of them. It's very piano oriented, top top marks by most folks for the piano action and the sounds, and it looks like it'd be simple to navigate, which is super important when it's an all-comers board. It also has the option of a stand for it to sit in, which ups the visual quite a bit. And, it can play BT over the built-in speakers.

 

The Roland FP-90 is another outstanding board for its quality of sounds and built-in 50 watt speakers (2 ways as well). It also has BT to stream audio over its speakers, and has 350 sounds. I've never played this board or heard much about it, so you'd need to hear from others what the general consensus is. Just looking at it there's a lot to like about its easy adjustability from the front panel: like the 3 bands of eq, YES!, volume level of the upper and lower sounds, a button for creating splits or layers, a slider for mic volume (very nice!), etc.

 

Another top notch board with very good on-board speakers is the Kawai ES-88. With 30 watt speakers, 34 sounds, it's gets top marks by most folks and I've heard the drum-machine like capabilities are very good.

 

So, if you want to buy new, look for special sales where you can sometimes get 15-20% off. In fact there are some stores that'll give you that kind of deal just about anytime, but they don't offer as much support as a place like Sweetwater for example. Otherwise, these are really high quality boards, and for myself, I'd be super stoked to find a gently used version of any of the above boards, which could knock the price down by 30-40%, depends on how patient you are.

 

Sounds like a super cool project, art and music! Best of luck to you!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JeebsFat]

What do people think about the Casio px160 as a Yamaha p-45 alternative?

[AnotherScott]

Still, it's probably best that the digital piano has its own built-in speakers for simplicity's sake. Folks recording would be monitoring via headphones through our mixer/interface or via their own amplification.

Okay, so it sounds like the built-in speakers need to be there so that, if someone just goes over and plays, they can hear something, or if they're just doing something for themselves, but there is no need for the speakers to fill the room or keep up with any other live instruments. Which is good because, as Randelph says, more substantial speakers will further reduce and raise the price of your choices. So assuming you don't need speakers as capable as what Randelph mentioned, for some more moderately priced options with speakers that also have a good variety of sounds and simplicity of operation...

 

My first choice would be Casio PX-360. (Casio also makes the step up PX-560 but for your purposes, I don't think you need its advantages... possibly the biggest of which is not even listed on the spec sheets, the sounds are all completely editable and you can save your own user tones, which AFAIK is not an option on the 360... but is probably not something you need.)

 

If you want to spend less, in order of decreasing cost, I'd look at Yamaha DGX-660, Casio, PX-S3000, Casio CDP-S350. For your situation, I think the main thing you lose compared to my first choice would be the touchscreen simplicity and the real MIDI jacks which I think are useful in a classroom "music lab" environment where you could want to connect something to something else without using a computer.

 

 

 

[RandyFF]

And keep in mind, there are 30-45 day return windows at most outlets these days. I like buying from GC 'cause I can return it locally and not deal with return shipping costs and hassle. GC also has one of the biggest inventories of used instruments that I know of, and for the used price you see on their website they'll ship any board they have across the US and even these purchases have a 45 day return window.

 

Which means you could get a couple of your top choices and return the one(s) you don't want! I've always found it hard to know how suitable a board is for me until I've had time with it in my own space.