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I forgot how much better the real deal sounds


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I have to admit that i strongly believe that clones and sims are there more or less.....

But then there are times that my ears tell me i am lying to myself out of conveniences (weight-healt)

Tonight on a daily show.....a bit freakish,....but the sound....just wow !!!!

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In general it seems it me clones are too bright compared my organs. Plus the key contacts make a difference.

 

I always assume that darker dirty feel is the result of the impact of age on the tone wheel caps and other components. Moe, Jason, Wes, Jim and Todd"s opinions would be interesting. Do you think if there was to be a new organ to come off a line somehow would it improve with age and is there a certain age where it starts to hit a sweet spot. Or I am just Jedi mind tricking myself because my organ needs a cap job.

 

I hated straight 8"s on my XK rig. Too bright on the upper bars. But Jim"s tonewheel set helped some.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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In general, clone high end must be tamed, especially if not being played thru a vintage tube leslie. On my Mojos I use one of the generator curves that tames down the high end.

 

I find that even if you do use a tube leslie, the horn driver still matters. To my ears, nothing sounds as sweet as the old stock Jensen horn driver. I have had high power drivers in cabinets that were harsh no matter what I did.

 

Tonewheel Hammonds can be too bright too. I have a B-3 that I recapped with a Goff kit, and it is so harsh in the midrange that I cannot use straight 8's. I have to pull 888666888 for full organ instead.

 

As for various tonewheel vintages, the 50's wax cap organs generally get mellow as the caps age. I have a '54 that is on the edge of being too dark. 60's organs have much more stable caps and don't dull down much. 70's organs that I have experienced generally are voiced funny. They mostly have weak bass to my ears.

Moe

---

 

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What percent of the "real" Hammond sound is the organ itself vs the Leslie amp, in y'all's opinion? If you get a good enough clone and run it through a real Leslie is it going to be closer to "the sound"?

 

Life is subtractive.
Genres: Jazz, funk, pop, Christian worship, BebHop
Wishlist: 80s-ish (synth)pop, symph pop, prog rock, fusion, musical theatre
Gear: NS2 + JUNO-G. KingKORG. SP6 at church.

 

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Why can"t I get local shows like that?

 

Damn!

 

Jake

I'm with you, bro.

 

If you get a good enough clone and run it through a real Leslie is it going to be closer to "the sound"?

 

Absolutely. This is why many clones have an 11 pin output to go directly to a leslie.

 

:nopity:
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If you get a good enough clone and run it through a real Leslie is it going to be closer to "the sound"?

 

Absolutely. This is why many clones have an 11 pin output to go directly to a leslie.

Agree. Running a good clone through a tube leslie gets you close.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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I went with the tonewheel set that Hammond offers for my SK2, the set that Jim Alfredson tweaked to sound like his 56 B. Made some difference, but I still have to tame the high end a bit.

 

I loved the sound I got from my old XB-2 through a 147 with foot preamp. Although, it was pretty good through my Motion Sound Pro 3TM as well as my Vent

 

 

"In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome.

So God helped him and created woman.

 

Now everybody's got the blues."

 

Willie Dixon

 

 

 

 

 

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I still have my XB2. I"m better at buying gear than selling.

 

I played the XB2 a longtime, until the little teeth that hold the black keys in place started breaking (2009 I think). I think it was the gain structure but the XB-2 had tons of balls. I ran everything through real Leslies until 2015. I still feed the Vent through the 11-pin.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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That was a real pleasure! I know the answer is obvious, but its the global experience of everything resonating, including the wood of the case. Clones come beautifully close overall, but having had playing time with a decent range of options, I know why the purists are so pure. Even a good Vent setup will never generate the Full Leslie Experience I got from playing a decked-out B-3. Certain crucial touches are present there that can't be had otherwise. Its somewhat like the love people have for vinyl LPs because of the necessary compression and low-order distortion. Its unique. Take that in stride, since my only serious drawbar time was on a Korg CX-3, years back. The overall voice never fully dazzled me, so I'm a shameless pug who now relies on static Hammond waves from a sampler. Oh, the GALL! :duck::D

 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

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There's a quality in the midrange that no clone as of yet has nailed. Also, the multicontacts are incredibly important to the sound. That said, these are minutiae that only we hear and in the context of most recordings wouldn't even be apparent. Yes, a vintage tube Leslie helps a lot. I've been recording my XK5 system through a vintage 122 lately and it sounds amazing.
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I remember when the KB-2 came out, Keyboard had a Hammond shootout, where they compared the current Hammond clones to the real thing. They did the rating on a drawbar scale, with 8 bring the highest.

 

The KB-2 had some of the best numbers of all the clones, including authenticity, but the one that convinced me to get one was the Balls category. The test bed Hammond received a 7, where the XB-2 received an 8.

 

If it had not been for the Hammond EXP-100 pedal shorting out and taking out the XB-2 with it, I would still be using it.

 

 

 

 

"In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome.

So God helped him and created woman.

 

Now everybody's got the blues."

 

Willie Dixon

 

 

 

 

 

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There's a quality in the midrange that no clone as of yet has nailed..

 

I agree with this, because I have no HF hearing (cuts off under 2k) and I can definitely hear the difference. Another good example, IMO, of a great, not overly processed B3 sound is on "Reese Wynans and Friends" when he revisited SRV's "Riviera Paradise". That one almost singlehandedly launched me into a "real deal" Hammond and Leslie acquisition craze (OP's post adding fuel to the fire).

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OK folks, I am about to commit heresy. Every day I am fortunate enough to be able to play a 1959 C-3 with 251 leslie. I love it. The old girl and I have gone through some times together. No doubt. I'll never sell. Ever. That said I also have an XK5 and leslie 21 system. All things considered, out on the gig I like the 5 better. Maybe it is the power of a 300+ watt leslle but I find the 5 more expressive through a wider variety of drawbar settings and the touch is indistinguishable to my stubby fingers. . I confess that some time I'd like to do what Mr. Alfredson has done and run it through a real old time tube leslie, 147 or 122 and see what I get. My hunch is, if I like it now I'll like it even better then. I am about convinced, were some of the tactile, visual, and yes, olfactory cues removed, a lot of clones would be indistinguishable from "the real thing." In the words of George Clinton... "Free your mind and your ass will follow."
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OK folks, I am about to commit heresy. Every day I am fortunate enough to be able to play a 1959 C-3 with 251 leslie. [...] That said I also have an XK5 and leslie 21 system. All things considered, out on a the gig I like the 5 better.

 

Tar and feather! Tar and feather!!

I've also comitted heresy last week: I gigged my M100 without a Leslie, going straight in a 12" speaker. Actually it sounded great and was easy to mic. (No need to mic top and bottom, and no upper horn aiming in random direction in stop mode.) With the "magic" switch I added (which connects different points in the line box) , the scanner vibrato can sound pretty Leslie-like. I also had the fastest setup of the whole band!

"Show me all the blueprints. I'm serious now, show me all the blueprints."

My homemade instruments

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I remember when the KB-2 came out, Keyboard had a Hammond shootout, where they compared the current Hammond clones to the real thing. They did the rating on a drawbar scale, with 8 bring the highest.

 

The KB-2 had some of the best numbers of all the clones, including authenticity, but the one that convinced me to get one was the Balls category. The test bed Hammond received a 7, where the XB-2 received an 8.

 

If it had not been for the Hammond EXP-100 pedal shorting out and taking out the XB-2 with it, I would still be using it.

 

 

 

I used to gig with an XB2 connected to a modded Leslie 25(amped via Fender Bassman) for several years and thought it was the closest thing out there

Kronos 88 Platinum, Yamaha YC88, Subsequent 37, Korg CX3, Hydrasynth 49-key, Nord Electro 5D 73, QSC K8.2, Lester K

 

Me & The Boyz

Chris Beard Band

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Great players but percussion settings can be so annoying. I'd much rather hear Gospel registrations and players. Some of those guys are on another level. I have met a few while selling Leslie's to churches.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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Am I wrong? The organ on the right looks to be a Hammond "New B3" -- not a chop -- the "roadable" one with the hand rails all around the case. So, though it sounds great, no actual tonewheels in that one, correct? Wasn't the "New B3" Suzuki's original Hammond "comeback", before the XK and SK lines?

Legend '70s Compact, Jupiter-Xm, Studiologic Numa X 73

 

 

 

 

 

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Well the XB3 was but this is the one he has up there:

 

http://hammondorganco.com/products/console-organs/portable-b3/

 

Roger Smith from TOP uses one with a Leslie 3300. They sound great. I am pretty sure they are made to order though because of the price point. There isn't a lot of Hammond love on this forum but the new B3 is killer.

 

 

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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