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Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) #3017514 11/26/19 07:15 PM
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Gary75 Offline OP
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So I started this week......

Normally it’s a case of if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, but I had to commence pre-emptive measures.



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Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3017515 11/26/19 07:22 PM
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Gary you will get more response posting it over here. Some of us cross post:

https://organforum.com/forums/


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com

Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3017535 11/26/19 10:13 PM
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Mine‘s up for it, as well.

Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3017553 11/27/19 02:52 AM
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Definitely do it! I had Retrolinear remove it from my 1975 A105 manuals and they gave me the foam they removed. Fortunately, when the put it in at the factory it was a little off position, so it didn't really get on the wires, but the foam they removed was already turning into a gooey, sticky mess and the organ had spent its whole life in a living room in NJ before I bought it.


1975 Hammond A105/122RV, Yamaha N2 AvantGrand, Hohner D6 Clavinet, 1978 Minimoog Model D, Korg Mono/Poly, Yamaha CS-60, Roland A50
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018277 12/03/19 05:49 PM
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Gary75 Offline OP
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Update

After finishing off the 100 or so wires to be unsoldered, today with the help of my father we took the manuals out.

The way we did it was take two wood batons, lifted the manuals up and slid them under the sides from the back. This then cleared the manuals from the scanner. The only other thing was to remove the centre wood block that the centre brass back panel screw goes into. Two wood screws and a tap with a small hammer.

After that we placed a table at the back and made it the same height as the batons. Then the manuals slid right out without needing any lifting or risk of dropping to the generator. Rubbed some wax on the batons for ease of movement. You could remove the manuals on your own really using this method

Called it a day today but I did have a nose around now they are out and touch wood, the foam that’s visible and touchable (left hand side) feels supple and springy with no sign of degradation. Hopefully it’s the same on the inside. Last picture is foam.

I’m actually really enjoying it!

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
upload image


C3/122,Rhodes,D6,Juno6,Wurlitzer 200,MPC1000,KP3,KorgBX3/HX3/145,KorgM1,Roland System1,SL88Grand,Moog LP
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018295 12/03/19 07:13 PM
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That's so clever it makes me wonder if that's similar to how they were assembled in the first place. Or, you're smarter than they were!


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018304 12/03/19 08:05 PM
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I’m not sure if they’d have used batons to slide them in but it certainly works. You only have to lift the manuals up just enough to clear the scanner and pop the wood block off and they just slide right out. The height of the batons is 30mm. Width can be roughly the same. This way your not doing any lifting or any awkward holding.

If only my C3 was as easy to move with the manuals in!


C3/122,Rhodes,D6,Juno6,Wurlitzer 200,MPC1000,KP3,KorgBX3/HX3/145,KorgM1,Roland System1,SL88Grand,Moog LP
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018322 12/03/19 10:59 PM
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I always removed my manuals from the front. Interesting idea.


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Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018332 12/04/19 12:11 AM
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When I learned about the foam thing last year I panicked. But my RT3 (inherited a year ago) was made in 1960 TYG. What a relief. Great job there!

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
L1062865 by unoh7, on Flickr


RT-3/U-121/SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12
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Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018415 12/04/19 05:09 PM
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Partially removed lower manual cover today, seems to be tight at the end where preset board wires go into the housing where the preset keys reside. I think it’s just a bit tight and I need to be a bit more brave.

It looks really clean from what I can see, none of the foam broke off or looks deteriorated



[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]


C3/122,Rhodes,D6,Juno6,Wurlitzer 200,MPC1000,KP3,KorgBX3/HX3/145,KorgM1,Roland System1,SL88Grand,Moog LP
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018425 12/04/19 05:53 PM
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Hmmm. I wonder if the organ was rewired at some point. I've never seen the yellow/black wires attached to a manual terminal strip before. Everything I've seen has cloth insulation.


Moe
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"I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker

http://www.hotrodmotm.com
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: mate stubb] #3018433 12/04/19 06:22 PM
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I don’t know it’s history between 1973-1999 but I do know it wasn’t used for a while before I got it as someone had removed a valve from the Leslie where it was from purchase, which was a civic centre.

I wonder how much of the organ(s) was in completed form when shipped from the US to be assembled in the UK. Is it possible some of the solder work such as harnesses were done solely by UK electricians/panel wireman and they used their own cable form.


C3/122,Rhodes,D6,Juno6,Wurlitzer 200,MPC1000,KP3,KorgBX3/HX3/145,KorgM1,Roland System1,SL88Grand,Moog LP
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018467 12/04/19 08:42 PM
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Gary75 Offline OP
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Cover now off



C3/122,Rhodes,D6,Juno6,Wurlitzer 200,MPC1000,KP3,KorgBX3/HX3/145,KorgM1,Roland System1,SL88Grand,Moog LP
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018489 12/04/19 10:34 PM
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Looks nice and clean there, great job so far.
Will you clean the busbars also, while you have it apart ?

I need to do the same job one day soon with my 67 A100.

You can see some of the dentrite in the end of your last video, as also shown here :


/Bjrn - old gearjunkie, still with lot of GAS
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018495 12/04/19 11:00 PM
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I’m not sure if I will yet clean the bus bars. One of the annoying things about living in the UK is their is no suppliers of Hammond maintenance parts or indeed any parts. I’d like to change the upstop felts while they’re out but your looking at $18 for a pair from Trek, then at least $50 for basic shipping to UK. Someone should get a dealership from home going and sell TWG/Trek produce. I’d do it myself if I could.

The dendrites are noticeable on some areas, feels furry under the fingers! I’ll clean as much surface area as possible and then have a think about wether to apply some form of clear lacquer coating to stop it from returning.

The foam isn’t sticky and still retains its springy feel so I’m really pleased I don’t have any cleaning/removal so far to do, aside from removing it from the cover itself



C3/122,Rhodes,D6,Juno6,Wurlitzer 200,MPC1000,KP3,KorgBX3/HX3/145,KorgM1,Roland System1,SL88Grand,Moog LP
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018505 12/05/19 12:06 AM
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Okay, for those of us who spent the last umpty-years playing guitar/bass, then came late to the keyboard game, can someone give me an idea as to what's going on? I bought an early '60s A-100 a couple of years ago and I know that I need to do some maintenance on the drawbars because they glitch in and out, and the chorus rotary doo-dad rattles, so it probably needs some attention too, but what fresh hell is this?

Are you guys trying to give me nightmares?

Grey


I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: GRollins] #3018512 12/05/19 01:50 AM
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Hammond organs used to use felt as a dust cover for the resistance wiring in the manuals. Starting mid 60's straight into the 1970's, they switched to a strip of foam (like you find on Anvil cases). This foam can break down into a sticky goo over time and corrode and eat through the very fine manual wires. Keep in mind that each resistance wire is hair thin and each key has 9 wires. Multiply 9x61 keys and you have 549 chances for the foam chew thru a resistance wire and eliminate a tone in your Hammond.

See this link to determine if your organ has the foam.

https://organforum.com/forums/forum...ond-organs/50318-dreaded-foam-what-years


1975 Hammond A105/122RV, Yamaha N2 AvantGrand, Hohner D6 Clavinet, 1978 Minimoog Model D, Korg Mono/Poly, Yamaha CS-60, Roland A50
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018518 12/05/19 02:53 AM
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Thanks, I'll pop the back and look for rivets. I've also got a lot of the original paperwork, so I can check the dates--at one point, I had that tops in my mind, but it's evaporated.

Grey


I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018534 12/05/19 07:26 AM
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Gary, you might try Tonewheel General Hospital, www.tonewheelgeneral.com , still TrekII products, but perhaps cheaper shipping, or find other UK Hammond players and share the shipping costs.


/Bjrn - old gearjunkie, still with lot of GAS
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018544 12/05/19 01:59 PM
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Bit of morning banter with the old man



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Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018608 12/05/19 11:32 PM
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To be pedantic, Hammonds do not suffer from dendrite problems, they suffer from whisker problems. Whiskering occurs spontaneously on electro-plated metals, and is thought to be the result of residual stresses from the electroplating process. Our hammonds contain parts which are zinc or cadmium plated, for corrosion-resistance.

https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/background/

Gary, if you have the manuals out already, you'd be foolish to skip cleaning the busbars at this point IMO.

Last edited by WesG; 12/05/19 11:35 PM. Reason: NASA Link

Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3
Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H
Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9
Roland: VR-09, RD-800
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018659 12/06/19 02:47 PM
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Yes buss bars are a big job but worth it. It makes a big difference. I did a job last year with a friend on a 1958 B-3 and it sounded great afterwards.


"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


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Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018661 12/06/19 02:54 PM
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I’ve just ordered busbar lube and up/down felts from TWG. I’m not in any rush to finish the job and you guys are right, it would be daft to have it all stripped out and not do it. You have to get out of the mindset of ‘well it plays and sounds fine so must be ok underneath’

Certainly a good winter project when I can’t work outside in the warm!


C3/122,Rhodes,D6,Juno6,Wurlitzer 200,MPC1000,KP3,KorgBX3/HX3/145,KorgM1,Roland System1,SL88Grand,Moog LP
Re: Time to take the plunge (foam removal C3) [Re: Gary75] #3018670 12/06/19 04:30 PM
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Bus bars are not that bad if the manuals are out of the organ.


Moe
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"I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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