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Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3018330 12/04/19 12:09 AM
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I've been wanting to ask this, but kept forgetting:

I want to globally assign a footswitch to control tap tempo. This to sync FX/arps to whatever tempo the band is playing on the fly.

I've been unable to figure this out and inclined to think it is not possible. Anybody here done this successfully? thanks.


On a different note: has anybody updated to v2.00?

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Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3018338 12/04/19 01:14 AM
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I've upgraded and had no issues thu

Full thread on 2.0 update here


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Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3018342 12/04/19 02:00 AM
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I’ll concur with Nursers. I updated to 2.0 when it was released.
No issues
Hybrid mode and ability to be a host to usb only controllers is what allow me to use my new PX-S3000 with my MODX6


I haven’t used tap tempo so unable to answer that


David
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Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3019230 12/12/19 01:28 AM
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I'm interested in MODX6. I was at a Luke Juby demo at the weekend and we got to A/B some of the Krome 61 features I use. A few couldn't be emulated but one could, albeit by a different method. It was to clock out an AWM2 sound at a lower rate, but re-tuned or transposed, to be at the original pitch. This was to slow the vibrato rate on sounds where it's part of the sample, and not LFO or chorus derived. Unfortunately we were working through stuff quickly, so I was just checking what was possible and not possible. rather than the fine detail of how. Anyone here have an idea how this was being done? TBH it wasn't quite right as we were getting different rates of vibrato on different keys with the same sound, but the principle seemed to be in there somewhere.

Re: Yamaha MODX
icarusi #3019231 12/12/19 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by icarusi
This was to slow the vibrato rate on sounds where it's part of the sample, and not LFO or chorus derived..TBH it wasn't quite right as we were getting different rates of vibrato on different keys with the same sound.

When the vibrato is part of the recorded sample, the rate of vibrato will be different on different keys. The Yamaha is essentially "speeding up" or "slowing down" the recording as it stretches a sample over adjacent keys, until you get to a point where it's using a different sample... and then, you're using a different recording, where again the vibrato speed could be slightly different anyway. If you want to control the vibrato speed and maintain its consistency, use a sample where they did not record the person playing a vibrato, and use an LFO instead. Though the human player has the advantage of sounding more like a human player. ;-)


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Re: Yamaha MODX
AnotherScott #3019337 12/12/19 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by icarusi
This was to slow the vibrato rate on sounds where it's part of the sample, and not LFO or chorus derived..TBH it wasn't quite right as we were getting different rates of vibrato on different keys with the same sound.

When the vibrato is part of the recorded sample, the rate of vibrato will be different on different keys. The Yamaha is essentially "speeding up" or "slowing down" the recording as it stretches a sample over adjacent keys, until you get to a point where it's using a different sample... and then, you're using a different recording, where again the vibrato speed could be slightly different anyway. If you want to control the vibrato speed and maintain its consistency, use a sample where they did not record the person playing a vibrato, and use an LFO instead. Though the human player has the advantage of sounding more like a human player. ;-)


One way on a Krome is to 'lock-in' a down pitch bend, using one of the joystick buttons, then transpose the patch to maintain the correct pitch position on the keyboard. There's another way but it's a control on the edit window that I can't recall it's exact name. but it just has a slider which both clocks out slower (or faster) but automatically adjusts the pitch to compensate. All you hear is the vibrato rate change. There's no LFO involved as the vibrato is in the samples. Luke's results were quite extreme in the vibrato rate change, but the keyboard pitching seemed correct. I don't know if he was using an FM sound at the time.

I think this is the control. It's called 'pitch stretch', but it's not explained much in the Korg docs. https://youtu.be/VmuyF15SdCU?t=97

Last edited by icarusi; 12/13/19 12:41 AM.
Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3020538 12/23/19 12:02 AM
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So I'm quite interested in the MODX in my never-ending search for the perfect gig keyboard. I'm sure it sounds great, there's a shed load of user performances (which is the mode I'd stay in live). Effects seem to be retained from programs in 4 element performances, which is critical for me. I just have one question; how do you change sounds? I've never had a keyboard that doesn't have a numeric keypad. If I've programmed song XYZ in performances 245 - 250, intending to step through them with a foot pedal, how do I get to performance 245 in the first place? Is there a keypad in the touch screen? How do you guys use the MODX live?

I'd be looking at the 73 (6?) note version. Also hoping that Kurzweil bring out a PC4 76. Thanks for any guidance you can give me.

Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3020541 12/23/19 12:09 AM
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Hi Chris,

Aside from MIDI driven performance changes (I use MainStage to switch between them), you can either use the touch screen to select performances (and you can arrange them so the ones you use are at the top) or the scroll wheel allows you to move between performances as long as you're in performance mode i.e. don't have set list mode enabled.

Hope that helps

David


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Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3020544 12/23/19 12:40 AM
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Thanks David.

Being lazy here I guess but how does set list mode work?

Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3020545 12/23/19 12:46 AM
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No problems the touch screen starts in setlist mode from memory i.e. there is a box for each performance you select by pressing on it, with the ability to go up and down the list by pressing the up and down buttons on the screen. To get to the performance mode (where you only see the performance you're in) you just press on the Performance button just to the right of the screen. To get back to setlist mode there's also a setlist button to the right of the screen.


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Re: Yamaha MODX
Chris47 #3020556 12/23/19 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris47
So I'm quite interested in the MODX in my never-ending search for the perfect gig keyboard. I'm sure it sounds great, there's a shed load of user performances (which is the mode I'd stay in live). Effects seem to be retained from programs in 4 element performances, which is critical for me. I just have one question; how do you change sounds? I've never had a keyboard that doesn't have a numeric keypad. If I've programmed song XYZ in performances 245 - 250, intending to step through them with a foot pedal, how do I get to performance 245 in the first place? Is there a keypad in the touch screen? How do you guys use the MODX live?

I'd be looking at the 73 (6?) note version. Also hoping that Kurzweil bring out a PC4 76. Thanks for any guidance you can give me.


There is no perfect keyboard and MODX is no exception. Its a good all around board. Touchscreen makes the things you used to use button banks for very easy to navigate. No need for a large bank of buttons. Just plan what you’re going to do ahead of time (which I would always do for any gig ever ever ever) and its easy. SetList mode is where I lived during gigs - you see 16 Perrormances you placed there. Next page has the next 16. And so forth. You can have different set lists, each with up to 8 pages of 16. You don’t really need to know the bank/slot location of Performances. You can search by name, keyword, even character string. Find the Performance then put it in your set list and voila - you see the actual name you give it. Its different way to work from old school bank/slot management like we did years ago.

Think of it like a computer - do you really know where any program is in the memory disk? Of course not - you just call for the name you want and the computer finds it. Same here.

Effects seem to be retained from programs in 4 element performances
- not sure what you were trying to say here but its incorrect. Each Performance can have 8 live parts you can play via MODX keyboard, plus 8 more you could midi via external controller. Each part has up to 8 Elements. Each element can have up to 2 insertion effects. Then you have 2 Part level effects that will affect all of the elements. Not sure how many songs you’d ever need 3 consecutive Performances - each of 8 Parts is akin to a standalone sound. You can switch them on and off at different points as you need them.

What it does poorly - what stands out is B3 Organ is below avg. For the true tech geeks, the midi implementation (limitations) pisses them off. There is no complete onboard sequencer, which really doesn’t matter for live gigging unless you’re doing weird loop stuff (I don’t even know how to).

I have the 7 - I love it - so light and easy to gig with, does all that I need to do for the different bands I play.


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Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3020566 12/23/19 03:26 AM
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MODX is good, very good. Except for those miserable keys.
So you might as well see it as a great expansion module.

Re: Yamaha MODX
Fleer #3020573 12/23/19 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Fleer
MODX is good, very good. Except for those miserable keys.
So you might as well see it as a great expansion module.


Do you play piano or synth? They’re fine for me, I’m mostly synth though one band has a lot of piano - i am used to it. Works fine or me, no problems at all playing every note I want to play.

Key feel is very subjective, one likes what one likes. I’d never buy an 80 lb weighted keys board to get a piano feel for gigging. Buyers beware, know what you are buying and what you’re not buying. The keys are what they are, don;’t buy and then bitch.


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Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3020579 12/23/19 05:15 AM
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Had the MODX8 first but didn’t love the GHS-weighted keybed. Then got the MODX6 but had some issues with uneven keys (and a faulty knob). Still, MODX has amazing sounds, so I’m hoping for a MODXF with better keys (for me) in 2020. Meanwhile, loving the action on my Vox Continentals smile

Re: Yamaha MODX
MotiDave #3020596 12/23/19 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MotiDave
The keys are what they are, don;’t buy and then bitch.


Good point. Although I bought, and then sold because of they keys. I shared my thoughts on the keys just to be helpful to prospective buyers.

Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3020599 12/23/19 12:23 PM
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keys are great for me. when I sit down at my Hammond organ I change the way I play and adjust to the very different way you have to play a Hammond(not a clone) due to the feel of the keyboard.

Re: Yamaha MODX
Fleer #3020609 12/23/19 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Fleer
Had the MODX8 first but didn’t love the GHS-weighted keybed. Then got the MODX6 but had some issues with uneven keys (and a faulty knob). Still, MODX has amazing sounds, so I’m hoping for a MODXF with better keys (for me) in 2020. Meanwhile, loving the action on my Vox Continentals smile


I tried out the MODX8 while waiting for a guy at a GC. I hated it - keys were slow, sluggish, felt like trying to run in mud. It was the 2nd week it was out, not sure if it was an early production issue or if thats just what it is. It certainly wasn’t old.

I like the MODX7, but as noted, I’m used to value-level synth/semi action boards. A lot of it is I love throwing it on my back in a. Backpack, flipping it up onto a stand with one hand, etc - its just really easy for quick stage changes and it has the advanced innards I appreciate.

a lot of the keys impression is whatever you’re used to - if you’re used to better keys, it will bug you. If not - you may not notice or care. No offense to those that don’t like the keys - your opinion is perfectly valid for you.

I doubt there’s a MODXF ... its already out and called Montage. But who knows ... we’ll see eh? Roland reportedly improved keys in the FA-07 (vs 06), it can happen.


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Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3020677 12/23/19 11:21 PM
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Here’s where I found some info on a (possible) next version:
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-modx-inside-stuff/

Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3023338 01/12/20 11:48 PM
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Finally had weekend off...and dove into the effects...found Rotary 2 and a preset called Slow and Dirty. Heavily tweaked all of the parameters; speeds, ramp ups, drive, presence and such. Loads of fun! Might take a few more days to tweak it to perfection...who am I kidding; we're forever chasing the perfect tone, right?

So much fun!


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Re: Yamaha MODX
MotiDave #3023343 01/13/20 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by MotiDave
Originally Posted by Fleer
Had the MODX8 first but didn’t love the GHS-weighted keybed.


I tried out the MODX8 while waiting for a guy at a GC. I hated it - keys were slow, sluggish, felt like trying to run in mud.


I just some quality time with a MODX8.

It sure isn't ideal - but then neither is the current state of my Kronos 73. I suppose I've resigned myself to this basic equation. If:

1) It's gotta have the range of sounds to cover my wedding / corporate gigs, while sounding great doing it.
2) It's gotta have a UI that's easy to navigate quickly
3) It's gotta have a weighted action
4) It's gotta be substantially lighter than the Kronos boat anchor.

I don't have a ton of choices, and I may end up living with the MODX8 action. In a way, it's like "living with" the house piano on those kind of gigs.

What doesn't help my mindset is the next "house piano" gig I have coming up will be on a well-cared for Steinway D. But still, sometimes it's the tired old baby grand at the skilled nursing facility. And we all make do with that from time to time.

Tim


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Re: Yamaha MODX
timwat #3023386 01/13/20 10:20 AM
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Hey Tim,

I was in a similar situation to you a few months ago. I had the Kronos 2 73 note and it was my main gigging machine. I loved it but it was too damn heavy. I needed something with a broad palette of sounds but much lighter. I knew i'd have to sacrifice something, most probably the action to get what I wanted. When I first tried the MODX8 in a store I really didn't like the keybed. It felt like it bottomed out wayyy too quickly. But it was on a stand at chest level and inclined slightly so not ideal. (I had previous MOX8 and MOXF8 as well and never bonded with the action). When I got a good offer on my Kronos I decided to take the plunge.

Turns out the MODX8 I picked up was fine. Much better than the one I tried in the store. After playing it for a few months now I have no issues with it. Sure it's not up there with the Motif XS/XF 88 note keypads (one of my all time favs) but it's perfectly usable on a gig and I have to say I don't feel that I've sacrificed anything. I've also been looking at the CP73 as a spare board to pair with my iPad. I like the action on that but I really like the footprint. It's akin to the Kronos 73 but without the annoying 6-8 inches of extra length on the left where Korg and Roland always place the pitch and mod wheels. It's truly portable for me, albeit a much smaller range of sounds.

Anyway I'd advise trying the MODX8 in a few places before you decide.


Casio PXS3000, MODX8, Hammond SK2.
Re: Yamaha MODX
Dockeys #3023419 01/13/20 04:56 PM
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I agree about trying different MODX8’s because there is some variance. I was very hesitant to buy due to keybed. I found it very sluggish as have some others. What I tried in the store was to change the velocity curve to soft and that helped a lot. When I got mine home I did the same and it made a difference also. Not ideal, but made it more playable for me.


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Re: Yamaha MODX
timwat #3023444 01/13/20 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by timwat
1) It's gotta have the range of sounds to cover my wedding / corporate gigs, while sounding great doing it.
2) It's gotta have a UI that's easy to navigate quickly
3) It's gotta have a weighted action
4) It's gotta be substantially lighter than the Kronos boat anchor.

I don't have a ton of choices, and I may end up living with the MODX8 action.

MODX8 could work, but it seems to me like you do have lots of choices,,, practically every manufacturer makes something that arguably fits the bill, subject to your own judgement about whether it sounds great and has an easy to navigate UI, and how much lighter it needs to be. Options from other brands include Roland DS88/FA08, Korg Grandstage73/Krome/Kross, Kurzweil SP6/PC4, Nord Stage 3-76, Casio PX560, Dexibell P3/S3.


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Re: Yamaha MODX
brenner13 #3026070 01/27/20 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by brenner13
Finally had weekend off...and dove into the effects...found Rotary 2 and a preset called Slow and Dirty. Heavily tweaked all of the parameters; speeds, ramp ups, drive, presence and such. Loads of fun! Might take a few more days to tweak it to perfection...who am I kidding; we're forever chasing the perfect tone, right?

So much fun!


Just picked up a MODX7 a few weeks ago and am still absorbing all that goes along with that. I've read all 943 pages of this thread (lol) and made lots of notes. First, regarding the organ sounds. My first instinct with the on board organ sounds is that the Leslie fast speed is too fast. I'm a gonna dig in and find a way to fix that. Looking at this quote above from brenner13 it seems like a good place to start. Also, I noticed several references to adding the Organimation library from K-Sounds. I traded my MOXF6 in on the MODX7 and have several libraries from that (B's Knees, Vintage Keys, etc.) that I will eventually try. Tempted already to get the John Melas package just to make life easier. Considering using Camelot Pro for the iPad (and possibly the Mac - but I am running MainStage). My intention is to use the MODX7 as my bottom board with a Arturia KeyLab 61 on top controlling MainStage. After reading about several of you have problems with the screen and volume controls when using your MODX as a bottom board I may revisit that. It would be nice if I could consolidate all that into using "just" the MODX7 and MainStage but that warrants some experimentation. Also after reading this massive thread, I am putting Busch's Vintage Keyboard Collection on my short list. I have yet to explore hooking it up to my MacBook, and I haven't tried SoundMondo or the FM Converter apps. Did or will Yamaha be coming out with any kind of editor of any sort for this board or do I just need to grab Melas tools and call it a day? I've already got a FC7 pedal and it's doing a fine job of replicating the Super Knob. I bought a Gator case for it (Gator GK-61 Semi-Rigid Keyboard Case) and it is too big for it but with some padding and lots of room for pedals and such could be a workable solution. I can see it being very protective, but like most of you it seems, I want the backpack solution and may still get the Yamaha soft case and return the Gator. Haven't decided yet. I had the Yamaha soft case for my MOXF6 and loved it. Sometime this week I will do the OS update and learn what's new there. I also grabbed the Sudosonic video tutorials for the MODX and am sifting through those as we speak. Waiting and wondering how EscapeRocks is going to incorporate his into his rig. Seems like over the years I've followed in his footsteps a lot. I would like to thank all of those who contributed to my delinquency in this thread and therein my purchase decision as well. You guys are wonderful! My wife hates you but I got nothing but respect! Hope everyone has a wonderful 2020!



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Re: Yamaha MODX
Chris47 #3026081 01/27/20 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris47
Thanks David.

Being lazy here I guess but how does set list mode work?


If set mode is what I'm thinking of (don't have it in front of me) that is the 4x4 (iirc) grid of programs that you put into each set list page.

My biggest problem with it is that we don't do songs always in the same order, and navigating means hitting the small page up/page down buttons...and for whatever reason, my brain always picks the wrong one.

One neat feature is that if I'm in set mode, and have a program selected, you can then hit category search (or whatever it's called, next to the set button) and it jumps you into whatever category that program is in. I use this when I want to try say a different electric piano--I don't need them all in my set list, I just have one and hit that category button, then they are all right there. There are some nice touches in the OS, especially compared to older ones from the Motif and other keyboards I've had.

I wish I could save global tuning, like I have on the electro. We tune down one half step and I forgot to do the "shift/octave down" thing before playing the first chord at our last gig LOL! "Trying out some jazz chord there, no worries!"

Re: Yamaha MODX
midinut #3026099 01/27/20 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by midinut
...Waiting and wondering how EscapeRocks is going to incorporate his into his rig. Seems like over the years I've followed in his footsteps a lot.
David gave a rundown of how he's been using a MODX6 in this thread. Amazing how he uses the MODX sounds for an entire Journey show! 2thu


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Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3026140 01/27/20 05:55 PM
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Wow ... thanks for the link. I had totally missed that thread and caught a bit of his input in this one. So David, are you using the DS-88 for anything besides a controller?
If I were to substitute my KeyStation 88 on the bottom and put the MODX7 on top and just hook them up via an old school MIDI cable, that's all I would need. I'm gonna have to pick your brain on how you assign sounds from the MODX to the DS-88 and play them from the Roland. I'm thinking I could set mine up that way too. Considering my MacBook Pro is also my home studio computer as well, there has been a certain amount of anxiety associated with taking it out and running with it back and forth to practices, etc. Always worried that it may get broken or stolen. Already had to replace the Retina display once. Don't want to have to do that again if at all possible. What if you need to fly in samples? I guess the MODX does have Flash RAM that you could import one-shot and short samples and build programs using them. Would that be easier to do with something like Chicken Systems Translator or Sample Robot? I have looked at John Melas software but I didn't see any references to handling samples. I can see where it would still be amazing for managing Set Lists and Editing Performances. The MODX7 has enough space on the right side for an iPad and I could run always run Galileo or IK Multimedia's B-3X on it for organs. I have also been looking at Camelot Pro (for the iPad and maybe the Mac too). Still have B's Knees. I'll try that first but if that doesn't put a smile on my face I'll look at Organimation. Still amazed that you steered away from MainStage. I remember seeing some of your posts about switching over to Gig Performer because you were using mostly non-MainStage VSTs. Looking forward to giving your new way a try. Any suggestions or points in the right direction on setting up a controller with the MODX and getting started?

Last edited by midinut; 01/27/20 05:58 PM.


Kronos 88 | MODX7 | KeyLab 61 | CPS SSv3 | MacBook Pro | MainStage | More VSTs than I'll ever figure out

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Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3026144 01/27/20 06:12 PM
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You can certainly put an ipad on the modx7, I did it for one show (though I was reading lyrics to cover for our guitar player who was sick!). I had to use some gaffer's tape to keep it from sliding, the modx has quite the incline to it!

I haven't yet tried to use ipad sounds in a live show, but in my home testing it is super easy. Just a single usb cable and you are good to go. Bear in mind that you don't have a global way to turn down the modx7 volume without turning down the ipad as well....I need to go in and make a "dummy" program that has no volume just for ipad use, or more advanced, I reckon you can set up splits with external only as the source (this I can't confirm). Certainly you can layer easily enough!

I did have a few issues mapping on-board controls to the ipad software(s). The super knob and mod/pitch were easy to map, and the part controllers tended to send volume, but the knobs up above (that do cutoff, reverb etc etc depending on which row is selected) didn't appear to be sending anything....or at least the synth I was using didn't see it while it was in learn mode (Zeeon). Not a show stopper for synth but with organ you might want to use a fair number of controls.

Does anyone know if an external controller such as a Korg nanokontrol would work in the other, regular usb input? Or does that require drivers/computer to make it work, it's not a powered device (?)

Last edited by Stokely; 01/27/20 06:13 PM.
Re: Yamaha MODX
Stokely #3026166 01/27/20 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by midinut
I have looked at John Melas software but I didn't see any references to handling samples.

His "Wave Editor" program is the one for managing samples.

Originally Posted by Stokely
the knobs up above (that do cutoff, reverb etc etc depending on which row is selected) didn't appear to be sending anything.

I'm not sure, but they may need to be in Assign mode.


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Re: Yamaha MODX
engineerjoel #3026180 01/27/20 08:22 PM
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Okay....

Quick rundown on how my rig is now:

88 board is the Casio PX-S3000 (used as controller only)
61 board is my MODX6
I am now using my new Mac Mini in a rack with the Gen 3 Focusrite 18i20 Audio i/o (it can also be a stand alone mixer)
I use an iPad with DUET to keep an eye on the Mini.
I am running Gig Performer.

Most sound still come from the MODX. However I am now using Kesycape as my main piano source...especially for the Rhodes and other EP sounds. The Keyscape grand piano is exquisite.

Tech details:

PX-S3000 runs in local off mode.
MODX in MIDI USB mode.

Each performance sends a program change (MSB LSB PC) to Gig Performer.
Gig Performer handles ALL the heavy lifting of controller assignments, etc..

I use Live Set Mode on the MODX6. Each performance is in the Live Set.

Just as I did with the Masters on the old MOXF, I use the new Melas software to order my Live Sets

At the gig, one tap of the screen calls up the MODX performance, and the proper rack in Gig Performer.

I make good use of the Scene buttons on the MODX for various things.

The Mac Mini has NO extraneous programs. 32GB ram, 1TB total SSD space. As part of start up, it launches DUET. Then I fire up the iPad and launch the DUET app, and there's my Ma Mini desktop.

I use a stylus to open Midi Monitor to make sure all MIDI signals are coming in. I then open up Gig Performer, and away we go.
The iPad sit on top of the rack, and I glance at it now and then. Just as I never looked at my Macbook after startup at a gig, I rarely look at the iPad.

As you know, the MODX is unique in how it handles the parts in a performance. Using Gig performer allows me to control all the parts from my PX-S3000. As with anything, it takes some time and experimentation to get things setup. It's how I get around the PX-S3000 only sending on one MIDI channel, or the PX-5S only able to send on 4 channels (from the zone/keys).

The MODX has many excellent performance with more than 4 parts. Using it in SIngle mode was problematic when it came to wanintg to play some from the MODX, and some mODX sounds from the PX-3000
(or 5S).

When version 2.0 for MODX came out, and added Hybrid mode, as well as USB host capability, that sort of solved some of the issue, but not all. Hybrid is really designed for the MODX to be a Master controlling a slave.

Enter Gig Performer. I consider to be an add-on brain to my MODX. My rig is still light and compact, and with the computer in the rack, no laptop to worry about.

Plus, with the PX-3000 and MODX, I have perfect backups if anything goes sideways.


David
Gig Rig: Roland A-88MK2 | Arturia Keylab 61 | Mac Mini | Mainstage

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