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Kurzweil PC4


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The keys SUCK, IMO. They reminded me of the clunky and noisy keys on an SP4. For me, the Fatar TP8 on the PC3 and now the Artis 7 is a perfect hybrid between a piano key and a synth or organ key--both which are prevalent in my use in performing. Frankly, I feel the Medeli key bed does neither very well.

 

This matches my opinion on the SP6 keys which are identical to the PC4. Well, others seem to get along with this Medeli keybed. But I didn't. Not at all. If Kurzweil would release a lightweight 76 keys PC4 with a Fatar TP8 (but with the regular light Fatar springs please!) I would definitly consider the PC4 because it really ticks many boxes of my needs.

 

LIFE IS SHORT, GO GET THE GEAR YOU WANT ;-)

 

 

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quote : 'that being two sets of separate Outputs, allowing total and dedicated split of your board (great for LH bass players like me, who want to run the bass parts separately into a bass amp, etc).'/quote

 

 

http://kurzweil.com/content/image/product_detail/310/medium/img_0519.jpg

 

Maybe I"m missing something but this pic from Kurzweil"s website of the back of the PC4 shows 2 distinct set of outputs (labeled 'A' and 'B'). I think this would do what you want (split bass out one and right hand sound out another)?

 

Yep, you may have zipped through my post too quickly at the end. Here's what I stated:

 

This level of board also has a tremendous feature absent in most other boards: that being two sets of separate Outputs, allowing total and dedicated split of your board (great for LH bass players like me, who want to run the bass parts separately into a bass amp, etc).

Kurzweil PC4-7

Kurzweil Artis 7

Alto TS312 Powered Speakers (2)

Samson 6 channel mixer

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The keys SUCK, IMO.

This matches my opinion on the SP6 keys which are identical to the PC4. Well, others seem to get along with this Medeli keybed. But I didn't. Not at all.

Of course it's going to be subjective, and people will differ as to whether it's "good enough". But I think the PC4 action is better than its closest functional competition (MODX8, FA08, Krome 88). And it has aftertouch besides! Actually, I even prefer it to the Kronos 88 action (though the RH3 action does work for me on the SV1).

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Of course it's going to be subjective, and people will differ as to whether it's "good enough". But I think the PC4 action is better than its closest functional competition (MODX8, FA08, Krome 88). And it has aftertouch besides! Actually, I even prefer it to the Kronos 88 action (though the RH3 action does work for me on the SV1).

 

If anyone finds the PC4 action to be "good" or "better than"........(fill in the blank), they are likely more inclined to be pianists than organists or synth players. Personally, I would rather have a dedicated "real piano" board AND a separate board to manage the non-piano parts than to expect a single board like this PC4 to effectively do all three styles of playing. In my opinion that Medeli bed can be likened to all season tires, which are affectionately referred to as "no season" in many contexts.

Kurzweil PC4-7

Kurzweil Artis 7

Alto TS312 Powered Speakers (2)

Samson 6 channel mixer

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Krome 88 is awful.

FA-08 is not horrible, feels like the drop is shallow to me but I can live with it.

MODX8 feels like a P series Yamaha. Of these 3, it's preferred for me.

 

The only Medeli action I have played is in their own branded SP4200 carried by Sam Ash.

I can't say anything good about this instrument, action or sounds.

A Roland FP, Yamaha P, or Kawai ES would be preferable by a long shot.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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If anyone finds the PC4 action to be "good" or "better than"........(fill in the blank), they are likely more inclined to be pianists than organists or synth players. Personally, I would rather have a dedicated "real piano" board AND a separate board to manage the non-piano parts than to expect a single board like this PC4 to effectively do all three styles of playing. In my opinion that Medeli bed can be likened to all season tires, which are affectionately referred to as "no season" in many contexts.

Oh, yes, I'm comparing PC4 to the others (MODX8, FA8, Kross 88) from a piano perspective. From an organ perspective, they're all quite poor, with the Kurz a smidge better than the others because you can select a high trigger point. But none of these are really designed with any pretense of being "do it all" actions. Hammer actions that are more amenable to organ (though still certainly not ideal) would be the lighter TP40 actions (like what Kurzweil uses in the Forte, and to a lesser extent, what Nord uses in the 88 key Stage 3), and I thought the Kawai MP7 was above average for that as well (I haven't played the newer MP7SE, which has a different action). PC4 is not in that category,

 

Krome 88 is awful.

FA-08 is not horrible, feels like the drop is shallow to me but I can live with it.

MODX8 feels like a P series Yamaha. Of these 3, it's preferred for me.

 

The only Medeli action I have played is in their own branded SP4200 carried by Sam Ash.

I can't say anything good about this instrument, action or sounds.

A Roland FP, Yamaha P, or Kawai ES would be preferable by a long shot.

My problem with the FA-08 is the sluggish return,

 

I don't know about the Medeli branded one, but sometimes the same action may play differently in a different chassis or with different software. So while I can't claim to necessarily prefer every GHS Yamaha to every Medeli-based board, I can at least say that I preferred playing the PC4 piano from the PC4 action, compared to playing the MODX8 piano from the MODX8 action.

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Too bad about your experience rockinroller.

I had the dead key problem once once with a keyboard (not a PC4), and it was just a loose connection.

Very frustrating though, and I was a bit nervous about opening it up under warranty.

 

About the rest. I was surprised you ordered one, because you were posting negative things about it months ago already.

I guess you were just thinking you'd get something more or different than what you have with your two Artis 7 boards?

 

Anyways - to ward off negative vibes in this thread, I'll just say that I'm very happy with my PC4.

I can't think of another board I'd rather have right now.

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("But none of these are really designed with any pretense of being "do it all" actions.")

 

I disagree, and believe Kurzweil's target consumer for the PC3 and now 4 series is the all-in-one user. That is evidenced by the number of factory installed programs coupled with the programming ability that allows a user virtually endless revisions to existing sounds, sample uploads, etc. I believe they went toward a piano type key and action (more than organ or synth) in order to include the piano-oriented users as well as the rest of us looking for that single board to gig with. And historically they will take a model like the PC series, Artis and Forte after the initial release of the new product, and expand the offerings for each, either in an SE trim, and/or with different numbers of keys (61 and 76), hoping to attract users who--like me--take issue with the form factor or key bed, but want most of the other features that the board offers, allowing them to install different key beds and (hopefully) widen the consumer interest base. Personally, a primary motivation to even consider switching out my current Artis 7 for the PC4 was having 88 keys at a weight similar to the Artis 7, and the bonus of having power and capabilities equal--or exceeding--the PC3. If that PC4 had the TP8 key bed, I would probably be anxiously awaiting the replacement unit being sent in exchange for the defective one I received, and putting up with the nuance of clutter near the sliders and incompatibility with the PC3 saved programs I had tried to install.

Kurzweil PC4-7

Kurzweil Artis 7

Alto TS312 Powered Speakers (2)

Samson 6 channel mixer

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Too bad about your experience rockinroller.

I had the dead key problem once once with a keyboard (not a PC4), and it was just a loose connection.

Very frustrating though, and I was a bit nervous about opening it up under warranty.

 

About the rest. I was surprised you ordered one, because you were posting negative things about it months ago already.

I guess you were just thinking you'd get something more or different than what you have with your two Artis 7 boards?

 

Anyways - to ward off negative vibes in this thread, I'll just say that I'm very happy with my PC4.

I can't think of another board I'd rather have right now.

 

I am happy for you, that you are enjoying the PC4. I wanted so badly to do the same and really anguished over the decision to even order one after reviewing everyone's comments here and on other sites that discussed it. It really was a crap-shoot for me to make the decision to buy, figuring the worst case scenario would be that the board would have all the great features of a PC3 in a sub-30lb weight class and 88 keys that I really didn't like for much more than piano playing. Hope you continue to enjoy your board!

Kurzweil PC4-7

Kurzweil Artis 7

Alto TS312 Powered Speakers (2)

Samson 6 channel mixer

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I've learned the hard way not to trust what I read on here. It's not personal but I have purchased a couple things on here that just didn't work out.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

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I've learned the hard way not to trust what I read on here. It's not personal but I have purchased a couple things on here that just didn't work out.

 

Hearsay is no substitute for hands on experience. I've been disappointed more than once when I had to order without trying first.

 

One more cliche - no one board will make everyone happy. Different strokes, and all that.

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("But none of these are really designed with any pretense of being "do it all" actions.")

 

I disagree, and believe Kurzweil's target consumer for the PC3 and now 4 series is the all-in-one user. That is evidenced by the number of factory installed programs coupled with the programming ability that allows a user virtually endless revisions to existing sounds, sample uploads, etc. I believe they went toward a piano type key and action (more than organ or synth) in order to include the piano-oriented users as well as the rest of us looking for that single board to gig with. And historically they will take a model like the PC series, Artis and Forte after the initial release of the new product, and expand the offerings for each, either in an SE trim, and/or with different numbers of keys (61 and 76), hoping to attract users who--like me--take issue with the form factor or key bed, but want most of the other features that the board offers, allowing them to install different key beds and (hopefully) widen the consumer interest base. Personally, a primary motivation to even consider switching out my current Artis 7 for the PC4 was having 88 keys at a weight similar to the Artis 7, and the bonus of having power and capabilities equal--or exceeding--the PC3. If that PC4 had the TP8 key bed, I would probably be anxiously awaiting the replacement unit being sent in exchange for the defective one I received, and putting up with the nuance of clutter near the sliders and incompatibility with the PC3 saved programs I had tried to install.

 

Keep in mind that the PC3 is a 76 key keybed and at the time Kurzweil was using the TP9 action in 61 keys (synth-weighted), TP8 in 76 keys (semi-weighted) and TP40L in 88 keys (light action fully weighted). There were a couple of exceptions in the PC series (LE series used TP8 even with the 61 key). So your purchases were PC3's, PC3A, Artis 7, all 76 key keybeds.. All have the TP8 keybed which you (and I) obviously like. Many hated it and hated it to the point that I'm not sure that the TP8 keybed is a going forward keybed in the Kurzweil arsenal. I like it because at the time I purchased the keyboard I wanted to go to one keyboard (instead of the two that I was using) and wanted an action that allowed a reasonable expectation playing synth, piano, electric piano and organ. I found that the TP8 allowed me to emulate a variety of instruments reasonably well. I've been playing it for such a long time now that I am completely use to it. Kurzweil in its current lineup doesn't have a semi-weighted keybed on 88 key models, they are generally weighted. Kurz also introduces their new models with 88 keys because their market research indicates that 88 keys out sell 61 and 76 keybeds. Wait until they come out with a 76 key version of the PC4 and lets hope it is not like the Forte 7 with the TP40L; although if i were a betting man that is exactly what you'll see. The TP8 didn't make many friends and I'm sure that Kurz will shy away from it going forward.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

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If anyone finds the PC4 action to be "good" or "better than"........(fill in the blank), they are likely more inclined to be pianists than organists or synth players. Personally, I would rather have a dedicated "real piano" board AND a separate board to manage the non-piano parts than to expect a single board like this PC4 to effectively do all three styles of playing. In my opinion that Medeli bed can be likened to all season tires, which are affectionately referred to as "no season" in many contexts.

Oh, yes, I'm comparing PC4 to the others (MODX8, FA8, Kross 88) from a piano perspective. From an organ perspective, they're all quite poor, with the Kurz a smidge better than the others because you can select a high trigger point. But none of these are really designed with any pretense of being "do it all" actions. Hammer actions that are more amenable to organ (though still certainly not ideal) would be the lighter TP40 actions (like what Kurzweil uses in the Forte, and to a lesser extent, what Nord uses in the 88 key Stage 3), and I thought the Kawai MP7 was above average for that as well (I haven't played the newer MP7SE, which has a different action). PC4 is not in that category,

 

Krome 88 is awful.

FA-08 is not horrible, feels like the drop is shallow to me but I can live with it.

MODX8 feels like a P series Yamaha. Of these 3, it's preferred for me.

 

The only Medeli action I have played is in their own branded SP4200 carried by Sam Ash.

I can't say anything good about this instrument, action or sounds.

A Roland FP, Yamaha P, or Kawai ES would be preferable by a long shot.

My problem with the FA-08 is the sluggish return,

 

I don't know about the Medeli branded one, but sometimes the same action may play differently in a different chassis or with different software. So while I can't claim to necessarily prefer every GHS Yamaha to every Medeli-based board, I can at least say that I preferred playing the PC4 piano from the PC4 action, compared to playing the MODX8 piano from the MODX8 action.

 

That"s why I"d love to see a PC4 version with a nice semi weight synth action like we used to get on Rolands like the XP-80. Yamaha and Roland are stingy on their quality semi weight. It only appears on the Montage 7 and not on the MODX7. And with Roland you need to get a Fantom 7 or a Jupiter-80 to get their nice semi weight synth action.

 

The FA-08 action isn"t as sluggish as the RD-2000. Although the weight/balance on the RD-2000 feels nice to me - it's slow.

 

I don"t know how successful the SP6 has been. But I am sure they have attracted or lost buyers on the action - for carry weight vs. feel. Like many players' keyboards.

 

These Forte trickle downs sound great. Just need to get one with an action I like or a rack/desktop version if we can't.

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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("But none of these are really designed with any pretense of being "do it all" actions.")

 

I disagree, and believe Kurzweil's target consumer for the PC3 and now 4 series is the all-in-one user. That is evidenced by the number of factory installed programs

 

Targeting all-in-one users (among other types of users) doesn't mean they have all-in-one actions. By that rationale, every board that has tons of programs including pianos, organs, and synths, must necessarily include an action that is intended to be well suited to all those things. That clearly isn't the case. There are tons of examples of boards with that variety of sounds whose actions are poor for piano or poor for organ. The sounds are still useful if your needs for those sounds that are poorly matched to the action is more minimal, or if you intend to drive them from another board via MIDI. But the fact that Yamaha puts the exact same electronics and sounds into a hammer action MODX8 as they do a non-hammer MODX6 or MODX7, or that Roland does the same with their Juno/FA 88/76/61 variants, or that Nord Electros can be triggered by a TP8O or a TP100, or that the Kronos with CX3 engine comes in boards with RH3 actions, certainly doesn't mean that all those actions are well designed for all these boards' sounds. More often, they clearly are not. But it doesn't make sense for them to delete the organ programs from the hammer action boards or delete the piano programs from the non.

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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("But none of these are really designed with any pretense of being "do it all" actions.")

 

I disagree, and believe Kurzweil's target consumer for the PC3 and now 4 series is the all-in-one user. That is evidenced by the number of factory installed programs

 

Targeting all-in-one users (among other types of users) doesn't mean they have all-in-one actions. By that rationale, every board that has tons of programs including pianos, organs, and synths, must necessarily include an action that is intended to be well suited to all those things. That clearly isn't the case. There are tons of examples of boards with that variety of sounds whose actions are poor for piano or poor for organ. The sounds are still useful if your needs for those sounds that are poorly matched to the action is more minimal, or if you intend to drive them from another board via MIDI. But the fact that Yamaha puts the exact same electronics and sounds into a hammer action MODX8 as they do a non-hammer MODX6 or MODX7, or that Roland does the same with their Juno/FA 88/76/61 variants, or that Nord Electros can be triggered by a TP8O or a TP100, or that the Kronos with CX3 engine comes in boards with RH3 actions, certainly doesn't mean that all those actions are well designed for all these boards' sounds. More often, they clearly are not. But it doesn't make sense for them to delete the organ programs from the hammer action boards or delete the piano programs from the non.

 

True. But what stops Kurzweil from releasing synth action models anymore? One must assume they have sales data that shows the vast majority of their sales are 88k weighted offerings. Because there isn"t a synth action Forte, or SP6 or PC4.

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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True. But what stops Kurzweil from releasing synth action models anymore? One must assume they have sales data that shows the vast majority of their sales are 88k weighted offerings. Because there isn"t a synth action Forte, or SP6 or PC4.

I'd say... Bingo.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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As long as I've been a Kurzweil owner, they have generally released the 88 key first, then after a while a 76 key, then a 61 again after a while. As far as why, could be demand and/or upper management decision - they have a very small staff of designers compared to Roland, Korg, and Yamaha; so things tend to be done in a serial way instead of parallel.

 

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

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I believe the Forte hit in summer 2014.

They cut down the 88k TP-40L to a 76k TP-40L and a cheaper 88k TP-100.

And they trickled down an SP6 with an 88k weighted Medelli action.

And released a new more affordable PC4 with an 88k weighted Medelli action.

 

All bets are off with regard to 76 and 61k synth action versions of the Forte and PC4.

They might come, but who knows when or if. It"s clearly not a priority.

 

Until then, you can still get an Artis 7 (based on PC3K) with a synth action. New it goes for $1999.00.

But im sure deals can be found.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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And SP4 came out in a 76 before an 88, and never 61. Never an Artis 61, either. I think the 76 key PC2 and 88 key PC2X came out simultaneously, and never did a 61 on that one, either. I think there's no reliable predictable pattern here.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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If Kurz is smart, based on what I'm hearing here, they will get out a 7x version with TP-8 light springs, and sell a bunch of them near the same price.

 

I've gotten used to the TP-9 but hinge is way to close for a good feel at the key top. The long hinge on the Osmose drew my eye before I understood it's extra sensitivity.

 

Hammond made a fantastic light action already by 1937. It remains the best organ action ever. Crazy.

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I've learned the hard way not to trust what I read on here. It's not personal but I have purchased a couple things on here that just didn't work out.

 

Hearsay is no substitute for hands on experience. I've been disappointed more than once when I had to order without trying first.

 

One more cliche - no one board will make everyone happy. Different strokes, and all that.

Absolutely. I played the Kurzweil PC4 last week. It sounded all right.

 

However, I didn't particularly care for the key action either. YMMV. :cool:

 

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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("But none of these are really designed with any pretense of being "do it all" actions.")

 

I disagree, and believe Kurzweil's target consumer for the PC3 and now 4 series is the all-in-one user. That is evidenced by the number of factory installed programs

 

Targeting all-in-one users (among other types of users) doesn't mean they have all-in-one actions. By that rationale, every board that has tons of programs including pianos, organs, and synths, must necessarily include an action that is intended to be well suited to all those things. That clearly isn't the case. There are tons of examples of boards with that variety of sounds whose actions are poor for piano or poor for organ. The sounds are still useful if your needs for those sounds that are poorly matched to the action is more minimal, or if you intend to drive them from another board via MIDI. But the fact that Yamaha puts the exact same electronics and sounds into a hammer action MODX8 as they do a non-hammer MODX6 or MODX7, or that Roland does the same with their Juno/FA 88/76/61 variants, or that Nord Electros can be triggered by a TP8O or a TP100, or that the Kronos with CX3 engine comes in boards with RH3 actions, certainly doesn't mean that all those actions are well designed for all these boards' sounds. More often, they clearly are not. But it doesn't make sense for them to delete the organ programs from the hammer action boards or delete the piano programs from the non.

 

An "all in one action" is an impossible objective in keyboards, that is unless a board's techno abilities allow user modification of its key bed in terms of touch, response, even weight and size (obviously "size" alterations would be impossible). to the extent of converting a piano-type key into an organ or synth key and back. As I've indicated in previous posts--for me, the TP8 key bed does a reasonable job of compromise between a piano and organ key, not really yielding terribly to the nuances of either.

Kurzweil PC4-7

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Alto TS312 Powered Speakers (2)

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I agree with uhoh7 and rockinroller. IMO a 7x key PC4 (and SP6) with good semi-weighted compromise action (TP8?) coming in at ~20 lbs / ~42" length would potentially give Nord serious competition for gigging musicians who want light-weight small-footprint single-board solutions. Based on the excellent sounds on my SP6 (including Dave Weiser's custom ones), I would be all over it. Maybe Kurz will surprise us at the upcoming NAMM

 

 

 

 

Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2)

 

 

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An "all in one action" is an impossible objective in keyboards, that is unless a board's techno abilities allow user modification of its key bed in terms of touch, response, even weight and size (obviously "size" alterations would be impossible). to the extent of converting a piano-type key into an organ or synth key and back. As I've indicated in previous posts--for me, the TP8 key bed does a reasonable job of compromise between a piano and organ key, not really yielding terribly to the nuances of either.

 

Maybe by the turn of the next century we will have it ;) If there is still electricity available....

 

Osmose is perhaps a portent of some new looks at keyboard implementation. Variable weighting sounds daunting, but the basic concept most of us feel everyday: the shock absorber. The current Fatar model of "all in one" is pre-hydrallic. LOL TP-9 is great example. We have light short keys, how can we molify the pianists? Lets play with depth and spring tension. IE pre-steam technology. That way we avoid new development and all the costs. Can we blame them? Hammond protoptypes had velocity sensitivity but that was scrapped due to cost- or so I read somewhere.

 

But really the probem is a engineers wet dream: a variable resistence mechanism which runs the gamut from Waterfall to Wood for each/all of 7x keys. Let the resistence be moduated from multiple mechanisms, so a "tuning" is possible. Some resistence mechansisms may not have to be completely duplicated in every key. Really well done what would be the street value of such a thing today? 5kUSD for 7x keys, as a controller only, to start. That's the price of a good pro camera with lens today.

 

Point being: there is a market for advanced sensitivity, as Osmose sensation shows. The osmose is giving us new movements, which leave one last last untouched low hanging fruit: variable "weight", or tunable resistence.

 

Combine that with Osmose style movement sensitivity. OMG.

 

This is such a fundamental, and interesting problem I think it should be a case study in relevant engineering courses today. Likely there are already schematics on a few scattered hard drives.....

 

Like Clinton said: "It's the keys, Stupid" which in italian is: "Fortepianomassimo!"

 

 

 

 

 

RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, 

SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2

Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4

MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals

Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3020742/1

 

Check the above thread for some measurements on the Medeli K6 action in the Medeli SP4000 and Kurzweil PC4, copied here:

 

Although the SP4000 and the PC4 are listed as having the same action, the Medeli K6, they are noticeably different in two ways. First, the SP4000 has no gradedness, the downweights are uniform across the board. In the PC4 the keys have a high gradedness, a difference of 23 grams between the upper and lower keys. The lower keys are more heavily weighted than in the SP4000, and the upper keys are lighter than in the SP4000. The average downweight across the keyboard is about the same in the SP4000 and PC4. Second, and I don't know if this is a hardware or software difference, is the escapement. After you play a key in the SP4000, in order to play the key again, it has to first rise 7 mm. In the PC4, the key only has to rise 5 mm before being depressed again to play. This results in a noticeably greater playability in the PC4. Other than these two differences, the key actions are about the same. Both have moderate key and hammer bounce.

 

If you want to compare the PC4 action to a more common board, it's very similar to the Yamaha GHS action, which is in the P-145 and several other Yamahas. However, it's better than the Yamaha in having noticeably less key and hammer bounce. Or, it's similar to the Casio PX actions, but is slightly heavier, slightly less noisy, has lower key/hammer bounce, has a longer distance to pivot, and is a bit more playable. In the Casios, you can single-key drum easily to about halfway up the key, but in the PC4 you can single-key drum easily up to 2/3rds the distance of the key. So it's like a Casio, but quieter, heavier, yet easier to play fast passages in the middle of the keys.

 

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Hi all I'm new to this forum,but have been using Kurz keyboards for over 20 years(PC88).I have recently purchased the MODX 8 primarily because of its weight ,30LBS, and a good piano sound in the store.At that time the PC4 was not on the market.Took me a month to realize that I did not like

 

the MODX8.The keys are very plasticky tried to get used to the plastic feel(no way) there is a myriad of things the MODX can't do that the Kurz will do.One of the most important functions lacking on the MODX is the lack of assignable sliders,knobs etc.The multis are impossible to change without

 

having to adjust all the volumes,off course you can save a volume but if you need to adjust for particular room it does not carry over to the next multi you use, the list goes on and on,but the most annoying thing is on the gig the MODX sounds thin,really thin.I have purchased a PC4 sight unseen

 

because Kurzweil is not sold in New Jersey I will not receive my PC4 until mid January.I'm working on faith and experience, I really know the OS, it really is quite good,you are almost unlimited in what you can do it will conform to any configuration you need.As far as the key bed goes,well that's a

 

matter of taste,I have played many pianos and every one of them had a different feeling action,I'm sure you all would agree.I do consider an 88 key keyboard to be geared towards the piano player.I have no problem playing any other sounds(Pads,Strings,synth,etc)on a weighted board. I do trust

 

Kurzweil and think there products are pretty good, I hope I'm not disappointed.There has been a OS upgrade for the PC4 and I have included a list of improvements that have been made, they have Made a revision to the Key Bed action.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kurzweil PC4 1.06 Update

 

11/12/19

 

Past Release Notes

Version 1.06 Release Notes

(OS 4.18.32782 / Object 1.00.21)

 

MULTI MODE:

 

Fixes/Improvements:

 

EDIT / ARP / CC SEQ - After saving a new Arp or CC Seq preset, it is now selected.

EDIT - Fixed a rare crash that would sometimes occur after editing the FX chain of a KB3 program from within multi mode.

 

PROGRAM MODE:

 

Features:

 

Over 100 new FM programs.

 

Fixes/Improvements:

 

FM Engine - Improvements in voice allocation, voice stealing, layer cascading, and Program editing.

VAST Engine - Improvements in Oscillator Key Sync and XFADE Alg.

EDIT - The ChanCnt control source now properly sends values 1-127 when 1-127 voices are active.

EDIT - New Mode button shortcuts: The soft button functions for Layer Solo, Layer Mute, FX bypass and Edit Compare can now also be controlled using the MODE buttons. In Program Edit Mode:

 

Press the Program Mode button to toggle the layer Solo function.

Press the Multi Mode button to toggle the layer Mute function.

Press the Song Mode button to toggle the FX Bypass function.

Press the Global Mode button to toggle the Compare function.

EDIT / COMMON - Tuning Map implementation improved.

EDIT / Keymap - Playback Mode can no longer be changed for FM layers.

EDIT / KEYMAP / SAMPLE - Improvements to sample editing.

EDIT / ARP - Arpeggiator implementation improved.

EDIT / ARP / CC SEQ - After saving a new Arp or CC Seq preset, it is now selected.

EDIT / CC SEQ - CC Sequencer implementation improved.

EDIT / CC SEQ - Changing CC Seq presets now works in all cases.

 

GLOBAL MODE:

 

Features:

 

MAIN 1 - "Show Controllers" now offers the added option of "Yes Including Pedals".

 

Fixes/Improvements:

 

MAIN 1 - Display = Quick Access view: Keypad and User buttons now reflect proper LED state.

MAIN 1 - Display = Quick Access view: double button press of Channel Up/Down buttons selects QA Bank 1.

MAIN 1 - Display = Quick Access view: the QA Bank name is now also shown when the Global Mode Show Zone Info parameter is set to Yes.

OBJECTS - Improvements for Object and QA Bank utilities.

 

GENERAL:

 

Fixes/Improvements:

 

Keyboard Action: Improved velocity curve.

CANCEL/DELETE button working in Naming pages.

 

Past Release Notes

Version 1.00 - Sept 2019

 

Initial Release

 

-END-

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Fuster and other interested Kurzweil PC4 users, reviewers

Thanks for your post and thoughts on the PC4 and comparisons to Yamaha MODX.. I also used to own an MODX8 and like you I liked the board and sounds ,but didn"t find the action suited me. I then purchased a Roland RD2000 which I do like the action on .I love the ability of its 8 zones for layer and split usage for 'multi-sounds iperformance ' and its sounds generally but as an older player who gigs regularly find it too heavy and cumbersome to lug. I am interested if you did in fact purchase a Kurzweil PC4 what you think of it having travelled down much the same road as I have.We are all searching for 'the ultimate one board for gigs'

( dream on Yes- I know in an ideal world scenario!? )especially older players, small stages and performance areas and quick and easy setups. I say this even though I own quite a few keyboards current and vintage ( Legend organ, Rhodes,Wurly, Nord electro, Modx7 ....). Sometimes the gig just requires for a variety of reasons just one keyboard.

Any comments and opinions would be most appreciated.

Regards and greetings from 'Downunder' Australia. ð¶ ð¹ð

 

 

 

 

 

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Musomarc,

I recently received my Kurzweil PC4, and find the board and keybed very much to my liking.

 

..my path thru the long 'keyboard highway', has included Rhodes, Wurlitzer EP, Yamaha CP-25, Korg SV-1, RD-800, FP90, several Privias (incl. 5s), others, and I also have a KAWAI grand

..the continuing search over time has always been for improved sounds, keybed action, controls, and more recently programming flexibility.

..I think the PC4 'hits the spot', and is a true sleeper, and although I often bring a backup, this is my one gigging board.

 

As you talk about flexibility in numbers of zone, layers, multi-sounds....there is certainly an extensive capability within the PC4. (I anticipate you might have already waded thru some youtube's demos/discussion)

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kurzweil+pc4+demo

 

I might suggest before you make a decision, contact Kurzweil and see if the can direct you to a physical board you can try. Another contact point might be Weisersound.com. Dave Weiser is a dealer/retailer in the Boston/USA area, does sound design using Kurzweils, used to work for Kurzweil, and might be able to point you to somebody in the Sydney area that could get you access to one of these boards.

 

 

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I'm close to grabbing a PC4 but might have to do it without actually playing one first. Can anybody confirm that it can switch between patches and setups without the sound cutting out (like the Korg Kronos)? The PC3s I had could do it to some extent depending on the complexity of the effects involved.

Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4, Roland Fantom-06, Casio PX-350M; 2015 Macbook Pro and 2012 Mac Mini (Logic Pro X and Mainstage), GigPerformer 4.

 

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