Crumar Mojo 61 and Other Boards -- Mono versus Stereo

[Old No7]

Let's talk about sound quality with mono out versus stereo, as this old-school keyboardist needs help on new-school technology...

 

I'm running my new setup of a Crumar Mojo 61 organ, Yamaha MX61 synth (Rompler) and Roland FP-30 piano through the left line out jacks getting mono sound from my one Mackie Thump 12A. All 3 boards have stereo out capability, and It's just me playing upstairs for now to resurrect my long-dormant keyboarding skills from the 80s & 90s. But I do dream about getting into an Over 50 (or 60...) Classic Rock Band just for fun some day, so at some point "more and better sound" will be important to me.

 

I know for sure I'm losing some sound quality by running mono out instead of stereo out, but...

 

A guy at a local music shop was trying to convince me to use something called a "DI Box" to replicate the stereo sound out of a mono speaker (What???)... With the price of the box itself plus the extra cables he said I'd need, it would total almost $200 or so. For just a little more, I can get a used 2nd Mackie and have left and right powered speakers -- with more volume as a bonus.

 

I don't recall ever hearing about these DI Boxes back in the 80's when I was playing regularly with a Hammond/Leslie & Moog, and the few articles I've read about them mention they were first used in studio to connect passive instruments like acoustic guitars to amplified systems.... But how that black box makes an instrument's mono output "sound just like stereo" when played through a mono amp'd speaker really has me stumped...

 

* Was the salesman on to something, or was he just trying to push some slow moving equipment on an unsuspecting buyer?

 

* And if I truly want to get higher-quality stereo sound from these 3 boards, wouldn't I be better off to just get another amp'd speaker?

 

Thanks for any help or ideas,

 

Old No7

[Stephen S]

A DI Box is simply an interface device that goes between your keyboard and a PA system. It takes the signal from your keyboard (or other instrument) and provides a balanced, microphone-level signal that can be sent to a mixing console. A DI will also have "loop through" connectors that allow you to pass the signal from your keyboard to a local amp/powered speaker, while keeping everything electrically isolated from the main PA to avoid ground loops (hums and buzzes). It MAY have provision to combine the L & R outputs from your keyboard into a single, mono signal but that would depend on the exact model of DI. Some stereo DI's have this provision. There is no magic here to create a stereo result form a single speaker. If you want stereo, you need 2 loudspeakers.

 

DI's have been around for quite a while and are essential gear for interfacing your stage rig to the main PA. They cannot create a mono output that "sounds just like stereo".

[Reezekeys]

$200 for a DI box & cables? You're beeing suckered. Oh, BTW ... a DI box will not magically give you stereo sound from a mono output. I'd love to hear this salesman's explanation for how that works.

 

All you need to do is get a second powered speaker. It should be the same as the one you already have, for obvious reasons of having a balanced sound.

[lightbg]

Not much to contribute here, but since you are seeking sound quality I can relate this much: when I ran my Electro 4 in mono I enjoyed it, but I now use a Key Largo mixer into a pair of QSC K12.2"s and the stereo effect on the rotary sim is devastatingly superior. The schlep factor for a 2nd speaker pales compared to the sonic result.

 

Jake

[Doerfler]

* And if I truly want to get higher-quality stereo sound from these 3 boards, wouldn't I be better off to just get another amp'd speaker?

 

 

Yes. That's all.

[Dr Mike Metlay]

As mentioned here, DI boxes are legit technology and do have their uses, but they're definitely not "mono magically turned into stereo" things. I would recommend a good passive stereo DI for your toolbox anyway; it's a great thing to have when the PA wants a long cable run with a good clean signal. The Radial Engineering JDI Duplex is not cheap, but it's hard to find a better stereo DI out there; I love mine and gig with it everywhere. The Radial ProD2 is a more affordable alternative, and if you want a cheap and cheerful solution that may still be better than a poke in the ear with a branch, both ART and Mackie make 2-channel passive DI boxes for way less money.

 

However! That presumes a stereo input. Turning your organ's mono signal into stereo can be done in a variety of ways -- yes, including just getting another amped speaker, which is probably fine for small gigs where your organ sound isn't being run through a PA. If you'd like to learn more about mono-to-stereo options for your keys, feel free to ask, I and many other folks here can give you practical solutions that are BS-free, but until then, yeah, another Thump is probably all you need.

 

mike

 

[Delaware Dave]

".. I'm running my new setup of a Crumar Mojo 61 organ, Yamaha MX61 synth (Rompler) and Roland FP-30 piano through the left line out jacks getting mono sound .."

 

I might be mistaken but I'm not certain that you are getting mono sound. You probably would be for organ out of the mojo but if you are using the mojo for other sounds like its rhodes, wurli or clav I'm not certain you are getting mono, you would be getting the left side of the stereo field but not the right side. I don't believe that plugging into the left side only of the mojo field provides a way for you to get the right sound. It doesn't do a combine left and right and move the output out the left jack. For organ this probably doesn't matter but for non-organ sounds it probably does as those extra sounds using stereo effects and unless panned to the left you are missing the right side of the stereo field, which is different than combining both fields out to one jack.

[Joe Muscara]

Let's talk about sound quality with mono out versus stereo, as this old-school keyboardist needs help on new-school technology...

[Stokely]

Your boards will likely sound a fair bit better in stereo, especially any sounds with effects.

 

Mono vs stereo is a holy war on here and many forums

 

I've gone over now to the stereo side, as it helps me hear my keyboards much better (I have a stereo monitor feed thanks to our current live mixer). I do have to make sure any patches also work well in mono though, as some gigs we don't run our own sound, and I've yet to encounter any sound companies who will hand me TWO lines/DI boxes...they are always mono at the "low level" of our band at least. I tend to like to hear what front of house gets, so if I'm sending them mono I'll monitor in mono. Others do it differently, ymmv.

 

You may find it easier to get a small mixer, though the cheapo ones may affect the sound a bit. I now use a Key Largo mixer, which has nice direct boxes built-in.

[Old No7]

I might be mistaken but I'm not certain that you are getting mono sound. You probably would be for organ out of the mojo but if you are using the mojo for other sounds like its rhodes, wurli or clav I'm not certain you are getting mono, you would be getting the left side of the stereo field but not the right side. I don't believe that plugging into the left side only of the mojo field provides a way for you to get the right sound....

 

Yes, you're right; I'd forgotten that after my initial setup, I added a Y-adapter cable on the back of the Mojo that takes the L&R out and combines them (using a dual stereo headphone cable, reversed). It seems to work, but in mono of course,

 

Just for sh*ts and grins, I just played around on the Roland EP using its built-in L & R speakers -- and not running it through the Thump like I've done since day 1 -- and WOW, the stereo sound on the Rhodes and other tones is incredible. This has convinced me that I want the same full, lush and stereo sound for my Mojo and Rompler too.

 

Thanks all for the comments above, I'll plan to use any Christmas Bonus $$ I may get to upgrade my sound system to stereo.

 

Old No7

 

[pinkfloydcramer]

For playing live, the simplest, most hassle-free way I have found to enjoy stereo sound is the new generation Motion Sound amps. They're great for EP's and organ leslie sim and no compromise for acoustic piano, either IMO. Schlep in one box, connect your keyboard to the amp with a stereo 1/4" to dual mono 1/4" cable (stereo 1/4" to keyboard's headphone jack), built-in DI's on back for FOH and you're done.

 

Cons are, the one box is heavier than some individual powered speakers (lightest of the line, which I own, is the KP 408s at 40 lbs) and they're pricey- $1,000 and up. For playing at home I would advise OP to just get another powered speaker. I bought the 408s primarily for solo piano gigs where stereo sound was a necessity and I also wanted the quicker setup and minimum of cabling. My current rig (Yamaha CP73, Hammond XK3 with Vent) sounds good enough mono that that's how I usually roll for louder band gigs.

 

In the past, Motion Sound amps like the KP 200s I used, were considerably more lo-fi. It's hard to find a detractor that has heard the new models. Just an option I feel the OP should be made aware of..

[EricBarker]

Useful Mojo tip, since it's not immediately documented anywhere. Left only output is a mono-summer. This is true of some keyboards and but not for others. Many times it says "mono" next to the L, but not on the Mojo. But it's there! Since my band plays through a mono PA, this is very helpful. When I plug it into the R channel, the Leslie sounds like a washing machine!

[Sven Golly]

Yes, you're right; I'd forgotten that after my initial setup, I added a Y-adapter cable on the back of the Mojo that takes the L&R out and combines them (using a dual stereo headphone cable, reversed). It seems to work, but in mono of course

 

Please stop doing this, as you are not doing anything remotely approaching what you believe you are doing (you are either only hearing the left side, or far worse, you are introducing phase issues and run the risk of damaging your keyboard and other audio gear with this approach).

 

So many discussions about this here; do some research, but please stop using a SPLITTER cable to SUM audio signals.

[stoken6]

Let's talk about sound quality with mono out versus stereo, as this old-school keyboardist needs help on new-school technology...

 

Stereo is not new-school - the first demonstration of sterephonic sound was in the 19th Century. DI boxes are also not cutting-edge. But as mentioned, for stereo you need two speakers (or two earcups). That salesman wants you to buy his snake oil.

 

Cheers, Mike