New Keyboard Advice

[Stefan Ioan]

Hello,

 

I've recently decided I wish to play keyboard and have been gifted a Yamaha Reface CP for my birthday a few months ago that has been great in both sound and portability. I have had one year of piano lessons about 14 years ago and since I've played guitar and drums in a few bands.

 

I'd like to buy a new keyboard that will enable me to play with a few friends, learn music and practice playing the keyboard. I'm currently enjoying looking for older styles of music that use organ, electric piano, acoustic piano and similar type of sounds and am currently learning a few songs by Bill Withers. Will probably want to explore more moderns sounds at some point but I would probably get something for that purpose when the need arises.

 

I'm currently looking at two boards:

1. Studiologic Numa Compact 2x

2. Roland Juno DS76

 

I'd like to have good organ, EP, AP sounds, enough keys for most types of music (I will try to learn a few classical songs but that is not the purpose for this keyboard and if I change my mind I'll get something with weighted/hammer action keys), fairly portable.

 

From what I could find:

1. the Studiologic may (subjectively) have better sounds and semi-weighted action (I used to own a M-Audio Axiom MK2 61 and I found someone saying that the action is very similar) and actual drawbars. No favorites buttons even if the category buttons will recall the last used sound (I think) and no "workstation" abilities such as looper, drum sequencer.

2. the Juno DS76 should have a greater variety of sounds, ability to play samples and add more sounds later on (maybe your own sounds instead of depending on the manufacturer to add the sounds you want, not sure how this works yet), enough keys to not run out of.

 

My question is: which one should I get and why ? I'm very much still a beginner and will probably benefit from either of them so I'm not sure how to choose between them.

 

Thank you very much,

Stefan

[stoken6]

Both are nice boards. The DS has the latest Roland soundset, but will be probably weaker for Organ. I'm underwhelmed by the Numa sounds, but it does have those nine organ drawbars.

 

Do you own an iPad? Numa's party trick is a single-cable connection to the iPad, sending MIDI to it and receiving audio back, playing it through internal speakers.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Stefan Ioan]

Thanks for the quick reply stoken6.

 

The drawbars are nice.

The DS also has the volume sliders for upper/lower that seems very handy.

 

I can occasionally borrow my wife's iPad but I think that DS has the USB Audio feature too.

 

I don't really care about the internal speakers since I either play using headphones when I need to be quiet or my audio monitors when I can make some noise.

 

[16251]

For now, buy a midi keyboard for CP. No presets but analog controls.

[mate stubb]

Standard question - what's your budget?

[AnotherScott]

I'm currently looking at two boards:

1. Studiologic Numa Compact 2x

2. Roland Juno DS76

 

I'd like to have good organ, EP, AP sounds

...

1. the Studiologic may (subjectively) have better sounds and semi-weighted action...and actual drawbars. No favorites buttons even if the category buttons will recall the last used sound (I think) and no "workstation" abilities such as looper, drum sequencer.

2. the Juno DS76 should have a greater variety of sounds, ability to play samples and add more sounds later on (maybe your own sounds instead of depending on the manufacturer to add the sounds you want, not sure how this works yet), enough keys to not run out of.

You have a good take on it, and in that price range, those would probably be my two picks. Specifically for piano/EP/organ, I'd choose the Numa. It's action is more amenable to piano playing (as non-hammer actions go), and I think those particular sounds are as good or better on the Numa compared to the Roland. The Roland is certainly much more versatile overall, but for the particular uses you named, I'd go for the Numa,. Though yeah, patch selection is a weakness. It will remember your sound choice for each category, but unfortunately, you can't repurpose those buttons to select your 8 favorites or navigate your patches, you do have to use the scroll wheel, and that is one of its biggest weaknesses.

 

As for adding your own sounds, yes, you can add your own sample sets to the Roland, using their Tone Manager software. Another way to add your own sounds is through an iOS device, which you may already have... and the Numa is better at integrating sounds from an external device than the Roland is.

[djdisbro]

I have the Juno DS88 and the Numa Compact 2x. I personally would use the Juno sounds over anything that comes standard on the Numa. I use the Numa solely as a controller as I find the action very playable and map the drawbars to the various plug-in parameters.

[AnotherScott]

I have the Juno DS88 and the Numa Compact 2x. I personally would use the Juno sounds over anything that comes standard on the Numa.

It's subjective, but which AP, Rhodes, Wurli, and Hammond sounds on the DS do you find better than the ones on the Numa? Are they stock, or are you using an SRX-based EXP axial expansion?

 

[Stefan Ioan]

Standard question - what's your budget?

 

Initial budget was 700 euro but I stretched that for the Roland

 

Would you have any recommendations ? If there are other options that are a lot better I could try stretching the budget again but I need to keep in mind that this board should be a good starting point and doesn't need to be an end all do all thing (I was drooling over the nord electro 6d for a while but I would only get such a thing once I have done a few shows, have a few musicians I'm playing regularly and potentially be good enough to earn some money while I'm at it).

 

I find the world of keyboard players to be a vast domain with many types of music, musicians and sounds in general. I'm eager to explore but I often get lost ... it is easier for me to find what I need to do to learn piano than what I need to do to learn to play a keyboard.

 

My goal is to do shows, play music for people who aren't necessarily my friends, write some music, have a few beers and have fun in general.

 

Thanks for all the great info,

Stefan

[stoken6]

I wonder if a Roland VR09 is also worth considering? Only 5 octaves, but ROMpler soundset plus organ (with drawbars) plus a bit of VA. I think that would be my choice as a beginner keyboardist. EPs perhaps not the strongest but you can MIDI up your Reface.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[ajstan]

My recommendation would be to start off with a board that you won't lose a lot of money on when you sell it to upgrade, which typically means something you find a great deal on, or something that is relatively inexpensive.

 

I'm thinking that you extended your budget for the DS76 because you wanted more than 61 keys, otherwise the VR09 could be a great choice. I wouldn't recommend the 73-key version (VR-730) since you are then at a price level where you can get a more advanced keyboard. I had a DS61 and I enjoyed the classic Roland synth sounds way more than the APs, EPs, and Organs.

 

Depending upon your sound priorities and how important drawbars are to you, another option to the Numa Compact 2x could be the Casio S3000. There is a lengthy thread on it here at KC and numerous demos available online.

 

[Stefan Ioan]

I did like the Roland VR09 but you are right in saying that I'm looking for more than 61 keys. This is mainly to avoid "runing out of keys" even if I know that a 61 keys board will be fine 80% of the time (a very wise man once told me here on this forum that "while you can always add more sounds (using midi), you can't add more keys").

 

Losing a lot of money is something that I wish to avoid but since this is a hobby/passion, I only spend money when I feel like I need something more (and when I have them). I also like to think that I'll enjoy learning all I can about any keyboard and finding all I can do with it.

 

The Casio S3000 looks interesting but weighted/hammer action is not what I'm looking for right now due to weight (it adds at least 3kg) and I want to keep things portable... I know it is a trade-off but I've seen a few 88-key hammer action midi controllers around that I could add in the future if I feel the need for that type of thing (the Studiologic SL88 Studio seems an interesting choice if I wish to explore this). A friend of mine also told me that he wants to give me his M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 - very heavy master keyboard but should be great to learn on.

 

I'm very new to organs and drawbars. Drawbars are nice to have but I don't feel like I need them for now (what I really need is more practice )

[AnotherScott]

I had a DS61 and I enjoyed the classic Roland synth sounds way more than the APs, EPs, and Organs.

I also find the APs/EPs/organs to be among the DS61's less impressive sounds, which is why I lean Numa here, since those are the exact sounds he cares about.

 

[EricBarker]

Man... it's questions like this that make me really wish the old Alesis QS series was still kicking around. A bit dated by today's standards, but back in 1998 I would scream "GET A QS6/7"! Cheap, reliable, surprisingly good organs and EPs, got me started on the basics of synthesis in a very meaningful way. I owe a lot to my QS8. I still have it, but it's pretty much kaput.

[EricBarker]

I'm very new to organs and drawbars. Drawbars are nice to have but I don't feel like I need them for now (what I really need is more practice )

I think this is smart. Drawbars really takes thinking with 3 hands. You've gotta get pretty good independence with 2 hands first, and then time your drawbar "swipes" during rests. I mean, a lot of it is "set it and forget it", but there's a lot to think about when playing organ: the leslie speed, the swell pedal, plus it takes a little different play style. Back in the 60s, most keyboardists started from the piano school or organ school. Church organ was really huge, so there were many young organ students, and in older communities many households would have a small console organ, so it was second-nature. These days, it's a little more foreign to most who start piano or synth based. I come entirely from the piano side, but have really tried to build my organ chops over the last decade. I'm still crap with the swell pedal (largely because I stand), but I'm getting better.

 

â Eric

[ajstan]

I did like the Roland VR09 but you are right in saying that I'm looking for more than 61 keys.

â-

The Casio S3000 looks interesting but weighted/hammer action is not what I'm looking for right now due to weight (it adds at least 3kg) and I want to keep things portable...

Makes sense. The only other option I can think of that is >61 keys but not hammer action and sort of close to your budget is the Korg Krome EX 73. I don"t have any experience with it, although I"m sure some of the others around here can help you out if have any interest in it.

[ajstan]

I had a DS61 and I enjoyed the classic Roland synth sounds way more than the APs, EPs, and Organs.

I also find the APs/EPs/organs to be among the DS61's less impressive sounds, which is why I lean Numa here, since those are the exact sounds he cares about.

In retrospect, the Numa 2x would have been a better choice for me than the DS61. I"ve always had a thing for the Roland synth sounds, and at the time (last September) I was missing the JV1080 I had sold. I wanted a battery-powered option, which left the DS and Kross as my two main options. Today, I would probably get the Casio S3000 for a compact, battery-powered, practice board with built-in speakers.