Kurzweil PC4

[Doerfler]

LOVE IT!!

 

dB has posted this in the shameless plugs section of this forum

[felis]

Oops - missed it. Oh well - consider it as being for anyone else who missed it up there too.

[Fleer]

Thanks for posting that vid, felis!

[Dave Weiser]

If you want a "two manual split" you'd have to use one KB3 organ and one sample-based VAST organ program. I'm guessing (though do not know for certain) that the two organ patches (KB3 and non) could be simultaneously processed through the same overdrive+rotary effects to give them a sense of unity (i.e. they would speed up and slow down together)

Yeah, I've done the two-manual trick with the Fisher drawbars on my PC3s. It works well enough. I never did get the Leslie-as-Aux-Effect thing working, but I think I'll give it another try in honor of this thread.

 

Multiple taps of the KB3 engine (like a real Hammond -- one set of wheels serves both manuals) is one of the two items on my wish list that did not make it to the PC4. The other item is deeper sample editing / loop modulating, like I used to do with an Ensoniq EPS. (The latter should be cheaply doable even with ROM samples.)

 

Back when I worked at Kurz I made a Setup (now called Multis) in the PC3 factory set that had the KB3 and non-KB3 configured for the dual-manual mockup. Worked pretty well though I do prefer having a second board up top.

[Tom Williams]

Back when I worked at Kurz I made a Setup (now called Multis) in the PC3 factory set that had the KB3 and non-KB3 configured for the dual-manual mockup. Worked pretty well though I do prefer having a second board up top.

Dave, do you remember if they share[d] a single effects chain? Is that even doable within a PC3 Setup?

 

[AnotherScott]

I slightly prefer the PC4 action to my Casio PX-5S - certainly the keys are quieter, and organ sounds are much easier to play due to the high attack point in KB3 mode on the Kurzweil. Both are a cut above the heavy hammer actions on the cheaper models I"ve tried from various other manufacturers.

It's an interesting comparison. Casio has slightly shorter throw, textured rather than glossy white keys (and more textured rather than matte black), and is bouncier on the return, which I think exacerbates the noise difference... i.e. you can hear two clunks on a key return, vs. one on the Kurz. The Casio action is a little lighter in terms of force required, which, combined with the shorter throw, kind of makes it feels quicker, but the bounce on the return also means it takes longer to finally "land" its return. The Casio has the third sensor, though I don't think its implementation is so good (retrigger point too high, and inability to get more than minimal velocity on a middle-sensor-originating restrike), so I wouldn't really miss it.

 

At my age, I'm pretty much done buying keyboards.

I no longer even try to fool myself by saying that a new board is going to be my last one. ;-) Already, I'm semi-eyeing the Jupiter Xm.

 

But yes, I got my PC4 and am very happy with it!

 

I initially felt that the default piano's velocity mapping wasn't working for me, I just couldn't get it to really give me the forte I expected (and I have a pretty heavy touch). I tried the other velocity curves, and if I got the forte I wanted, the pianissimos were too strong. But I found that I could get what I wanted out of it just via EQ.

 

I do wish for more contrast between the faders/knobs and the background surface, the controls are hard to see in less than ideal light conditions (and can't see the position marks on the knobs at all); similarly, the legends that are "inside" the non-illuminated buttons are often not easily readable. For the first, I think I'll look to buy replacement slider/knob caps (or maybe create a thin light colored service to go beneath them).

 

 

 

[Coker]

Another Scott, I have the same velocity issue with my SP6. Can you tell me what you did to the EQ to get what you wanted?

[AnotherScott]

I'm just getting my feet wet, and I'm afraid I don't know how to tell you what I did! I twiddled EQ knobs and saved the program, but I don't know how to see what EQ I saved it with. As soon as I move a knob, it jumps to the value I moved it to, so I never get to see what it was set at before I moved it. I'm sure there's a way, but I haven't gotten there yet. But it was basically a big boost with bass and treble, a big cut at midrange, and turn the midrange frequency knob until it's at the right spot. ;-)

[felis]

It can take some time to track down what's doing exactly what with some of those complex patches.

I think the first piano patch has 17 layers, and an untold amount of parameters that could be producing an affect.

 

If you're experimenting with it at first, and run across something that you particularly like,

it might be best just to save the patch, and figure out what's going on with it later.

[Malcs Myth]

Kurzweil PC4 vs Roland Fantom - piano comparison

 

Hope not posted already. This is quite a surprising comparison considering the PC4 is half the price of the Fantom and has a reduced set of samples (over its parent the Forte). The comments appear to be favouring the Kurzweil so far, which is pretty cool.

 

On the sound quality itself, I"m very mixed - in a good way - I wish I could combine the best of both. Actually that"s possible to some extent, as they both allow you to tailor the sound to your liking.

 

Infact it"s interesting that the Kurzweil Forte sampling tech and the Roland Fantom V-Piano modelling tech, even though they approach the design problem from completely different angles, are getting closer and closer to each other, closer to a real piano.

 

 

[Ken Beaumont]

Just listened to the comparison, I agree with the comments. The PC4 sounds better to me. It seems more present. But you never know with some tweaking the Roland might sound better.

I assume the those are the default Grand Piano settings for each. The midi response curve setting might also not be optimal for the Fantom.

[theshinenz]

If you really must do the comparison thing, from someone who owns both the Forte and Fantom I"d say:

 

Kurzweil is better for:

Midi control options

Orchestral sounds

Vintage flavoured sounds.

Better arpeggiator

 

Fantom is better for:

User interface

Programming sounds from scratch

Synth sounds and synth bass sounds

Modern sounds / super saws etc

 

 

Stuff like pianos/eps etc are good on both so really a matter of taste. The kurzweil is more flexible but with that it becomes less user friendly and easier to get tied in knots programming, the Roland much easier to find your way around and quicker to program. The Roland is also better for quick patch selection live which is why I make it the master in my rig.

 

Obviously this is just my opinion and I love both these machines for what they do well.

 

[felis]

..........................

[Fuzzy1]

At the Kurzweil site they have the updates for a PC4.Also Ver. C of the user Manual .

[felis]

Looks like they added a listing of the programs and multis in the manual.

 

It's a start. I'd like to see a listing of the DSP functions, and the FX too.

 

I just noticed there are two threads with the exact title 'Kurzweil PC4'. Maybe they should be joined?

[Tom Williams]

They gave us an OS Update today.

 

 

Version 1.06 Release Notes

(OS 4.18.32782 / Object 1.00.21)

 

MULTI MODE

Fixes/Improvements:

EDIT / ARP / CC SEQ - After saving a new Arp or CC Seq preset, it is now selected.

EDIT - Fixed a rare crash that would sometimes occur after editing the FX chain of a KB3 program from within multi mode.

 

PROGRAM MODE

Features:

Over 100 new FM programs.

 

Fixes/Improvements:

FM Engine - Improvements in voice allocation, voice stealing, layer cascading, and Program editing.

VAST Engine - Improvements in Oscillator Key Sync and XFADE Alg.

EDIT - The ChanCnt control source now properly sends values 1-127 when 1-127 voices are active.

EDIT - New Mode button shortcuts: The soft button functions for Layer Solo, Layer Mute, FX bypass and Edit Compare can now also be controlled using the MODE buttons.

 

In Program Edit Mode:

Press the Program Mode button to toggle the layer Solo function.

Press the Multi Mode button to toggle the layer Mute function.

Press the Song Mode button to toggle the FX Bypass function.

Press the Global Mode button to toggle the Compare function.

EDIT / COMMON - Tuning Map implementation improved.

EDIT / Keymap - Playback Mode can no longer be changed for FM layers.

EDIT / KEYMAP / SAMPLE - Improvements to sample editing.

EDIT / ARP - Arpeggiator implementation improved.

EDIT / ARP / CC SEQ - After saving a new Arp or CC Seq preset, it is now selected.

EDIT / CC SEQ - CC Sequencer implementation improved.

EDIT / CC SEQ - Changing CC Seq presets now works in all cases.

 

GLOBAL MODE

Features:

MAIN 1 - "Show Controllers" now offers the added option of "Yes Including Pedals".

 

Fixes/Improvements:

MAIN 1 - Display = Quick Access view: Keypad and User buttons now reflect proper LED state.

MAIN 1 - Display = Quick Access view: double button press of Channel Up/Down buttons selects QA Bank 1.

MAIN 1 - Display = Quick Access view: the QA Bank name is now also shown when the Global Mode Show Zone Info parameter is set to Yes.

OBJECTS - Improvements for Object and QA Bank utilities.

 

GENERAL

Fixes/Improvements

Keyboard Action: Improved velocity curve.

CANCEL/DELETE button working in Naming pages.

 

 

[Fuzzy1]

I was trying to load my dx7's sysex to load into my PC4 & was having a bit of a problem (I was trying to port the sysex to the PC4 by midi) ,got a bit frustrated , & then downloaded Dex librarian /editor & preceded to load 1,023 dexed FM programs to my thumb drive ,then dumped these dexed programs into the PC4 & wow just wow! 10;s of thousands more. WWHHEEeee

[Fleer]

I"m really wondering how many GB are in the PC4 for later enhancements. That LENA chip can address 128GB but I don"t think it"ll be that much. EvilDragon suggested on another forum that it might be 8GB.

[Fleer]

I wouldn"t mind if factory sounds memory stays at 2GB, but having more than 2GB user memory would allow me to host the full Purgatory Creek collection and more.

[Dave Weiser]

I wouldn"t mind if factory sounds memory stays at 2GB, but having more than 2GB user memory would allow me to host the full Purgatory Creek collection and more.

 

I believe it's a hardware limitation, it's part of the hardware spec. A different memory spec in this case would mean a different product.

 

Bummer it can't quite do the whole Purgatory collection, but I think you'd only be losing one instrument. I'm curious if anyone has tried to load the whole thing? Sometimes a spec like "2GB" could be slightly over - if it were 2.2 I think the Purgatory stuff would fit.

[miden]

Been trying Ksetlist and all I get is a "bad gateway" message, or a 404 message??

[Dave Weiser]

Been trying Ksetlist and all I get is a "bad gateway" message, or a 404 message??

 

The guy who runs it (Kurz R&D's software manager, Fran) posted on Facebook a few days ago that it's down for a much needed overhaul. Said it could take a few weeks, but had to be done.

[miden]

Been trying Ksetlist and all I get is a "bad gateway" message, or a 404 message??

 

The guy who runs it (Kurz R&D's software manager, Fran) posted on Facebook a few days ago that it's down for a much needed overhaul. Said it could take a few weeks, but had to be done.

 

Cool, thanks for the heads-up Dave!

 

haha, btw I did reply to your email

[Fleer]

I wouldn"t mind if factory sounds memory stays at 2GB, but having more than 2GB user memory would allow me to host the full Purgatory Creek collection and more.

 

I believe it's a hardware limitation, it's part of the hardware spec. A different memory spec in this case would mean a different product.

 

Bummer it can't quite do the whole Purgatory collection, but I think you'd only be losing one instrument. I'm curious if anyone has tried to load the whole thing? Sometimes a spec like "2GB" could be slightly over - if it were 2.2 I think the Purgatory stuff would fit.

Thanks, that would be great.

As for hardware limitations, they did 'unleash' 3.3GB in the Forte, so here"s still hoping.

[C.J. Lewis]

For those of you who've bought / gigged / recorded with PC4, is your overall impression still positive? Does it feel like a modern Kurzweil and/or a less cool Forte? As a Kurzvangelist (there's a term I haven't typed in many years) and former employee (RSM), I'm pre-disposed to love it because it's a Kurzweil PC series product...not unlike being an Apple fanboy. I never resonated *at all* with the SP series, and if I ever owned Kurzweil (HA!), that whole series would get an incredible overhaul. I toured with a K2600XS, then PC3X and/or K8 for a number of years and finally upgraded to the Forte platform a few years ago, first an 8, now a 7. The fact that Forte 7 lives in a Road Ready 61 key flight case that fits in the back of my Yukon SIDEWAYS is a total win for me. All that crazy power and flexibility, and I can still take my wife and all 5 kids + luggage, my keyboard rig and maybe toss in a gun case too for a weekend road trip is excellenté.

 

P.S. - I recently purchased a Yamaha CP88 for the studio and/or a foundational board whilst gigging, and I LOVE IT. It's the perfect weapon for a player like me who spends a ton of time in the worship community and simply need a few great sounds with dead easy basic front panel editing. I've put it underneath my Forte 7 / Macbook Pro rig and wow...FIRE!

 

At the risk of derailing this thread, I'll get back on topic. I do some consulting on the side (Mackie is my day job), and I'm helping an old friend & previous customer through some PC4 basics: layering sounds, connecting to his computer to trigger VI's, etc. Touching back on my opening questions - does it work as you'd expect a Kurzweil to work?

 

Also, I've forgotten how much I love this forum - it's been too long since I spent any time here.

[Modler]

For those of you who've bought / gigged / recorded with PC4, is your overall impression still positive? Does it feel like a modern Kurzweil and/or a less cool Forte?

 

Well, I won't say it is less cool than a Forte. It all rather depends on your needs.

For me the PC4 is actually coolest keyboard I can think of to fullfill my needs as an amateur playing in a rock cover band.

Compared to the PC3 the PC4 has definately retained the Kurzweil DNA, but it also feels a lot more focused and fine-tuned towards gigging musicians I think.

[Fleer]

Question about the PC4 buttons. They"re made of a kind of rubber, I guess, compared to the hard plastic on Forte boards. Probably for reasons of cost, yet I seem to prefer them, but wonder how sturdy they will remain. Are their other (pro) keyboards that have been using them?

[Modler]

Question about the PC4 buttons. They"re made of a kind of rubber, I guess, compared to the hard plastic on Forte boards. Probably for reasons of cost, yet I seem to prefer them, but wonder how sturdy they will remain. Are their other (pro) keyboards that have been using them?

 

I may be wrong about this, but these buttons seems to be of the same kind that is used for trigger pads, for example on Roland workstations, Akai MPC"s, etc.

In that case they should be able to withstand quite a lot of abuse.

The pads on my FA-06 has been very sturdy. My Mininova has similar buttons too and I"ve had no problems with that one either.

 

I have, on the other hand, had some problems with the normal small 'clicky' buttons on most of the keyboards I"ve owned, with text wearing off and buttons that stops working due to bad switches.

So I am curious to see how the squishy buttons on the PC4 are going to hold up.

[Fleer]

Same thoughts here. Good to know the Mininova has them too. And a great description, squishy indeed.

[Coker]

I had no problems with their durability on the SP6, but they don"t give you any tactile feedback when you have successfully depressed them. It took awhile to use just the right amount of mash to use the buttons. I do prefer the feel of a hard plastic 'click.'