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Help me refresh my setup?


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Hello friends,

 

I am the keyboardist in a very casual band that plays rock covers in bars. My current keyboard setup is starting to show signs of failure so I'm hoping for some help looking for an update (and forgiveness when I get some of this terminology wrong). My current keyboard is a Korg X5D which I use in conjunction with a Roland SonicCell. I like it well enough and am sort of proud of how old/weird it is but I've now got power issues on the SonicCell and the buttons on the Korg are starting to become less responsive.

 

Things I like about my current setup:

- lightweight

- pre-existing sounds on the SonicCell acceptably cover most classic synths and organs/EPs, right out of the box

- Korg has decent key responsiveness and works fine both as a midi controller and an emergency backup incase the SonicCell fails me

 

What I need:

- technical reliability: I tried to run VSTs via a midi interface off an iPad mini and then an iPhone but neither one could keep the apps running through a show, and some things had significant lag. I don't currently have a laptop that can manage this either, and honestly I find the technology kind of a headache. However I'm willing to go this route if it can be done without constant reboots (and isn't super expensive).

- a wide and good-sounding base of classic keyboard and synth sounds so I don't have to mess around with finding/making samples/sounds--we cover stuff from Elton John to the Black Keys to the Doors to Van Halen, sometimes with little notice.

- easy sound selection during performance so I am not dialing through a zillion sounds looking for the one I need when the band calls an audible on the setlist

- portability--I am a small weak person and I have to schlep all this stuff myself on public transportation

- to stay under $2000 (better yet if I can stay under $1000), unless this truly can't be done

- a minimum of 61 keys (better 70+ unless it's really huge/heavy)

 

Obviously Nord is the name I see the most out there, and while it seems a bit like overkill for the level of musician I am, there is currently a used stage 2 (73 key) for $1200 that seems like maybe it would do the trick? Or would a different model/setup suit me better from the sounds of things above? I'm open to options and would be grateful for any insight you might have...

 

 

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Nord Stage 2 could be a good choice. Sound selection (preset recall) can be a bit cumbersome if you need quick access to more than 25 sounds (the max you can get to from the front panel within two button presses and no scrolling).

 

As an alternative, FYI, the Roland Juno DS76 has a sound set that is similar to the Sonic Cell (and good real time patch selection, unlike the SC). Yamaha MODX7 is a very capable 76 with touchscreen patch selection and I think a stronger sound set. Both of these are lighter than the Nord. Nord's strengths over these will be organ, real-time knobby virtual analog synth, and probably pianos. Though most other acoustic instruments (e.g. strings, brass, winds) will be better on a Yamaha or Roland. And while it is easier to create/tweak sounds on the Nord, there's probably a better chance of finding a sound that is already close to what you're looking for on the Roland or Yamaha. Or to put it another way: Nord upside is it's very easy to tweak/create sounds; Nord downside is you're more likely to need to tweak/create sounds. IMO, at least.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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As far as new stuff goes ... the form factor of the Artis 7 looks cool. The Roland FA06 and VR-09 are light. FA-07 is relatively light and the action plays way better than on the 06.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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Thanks so much for your advice, and a couple of other leads I can follow up. I have yet to find a brass patch that doesn't hurt my band nerd soul just a little :). However I would miss the wide gamut of built-in synths at the touch of a button so it's good to know of those other two options. I do like the idea of being able to layer synth with piano--something I can't easily do now but seems to be more and more common in the songs we cover.

 

You also make a good point about the Nord's weight--and it seems like a good gig bag with backpack straps for the Nord stage 2 76 is a bit hard to come by.

 

As far as Nords go, do you think an electro might meet my needs better than the stage? It seems more designed for portability, although it's less feature-rich.

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As far as new stuff goes ... the form factor of the Artis 7 looks cool.

Yeah, I like the Artis7 as I"ve posted about before, though its 28 lbs starts to push into cumbersome territory for public transportation, I think. If you can handle the weight, the new PC4 is better at the same weight, though bigger. The lightest Kurz would be a used SP4-7, which is really quite nice in sound, operation, and form factor. It's limitation is a relatively small sound set, and the need to use a computer for any substantive editing (also an issue with the Artis). You can load your choice of many other sounds into it, but the process is a bit cumbersome and not so well documented. And at 24 lbs, it's still not super light, though it is about as compact as a 76 could possibly be, and patch selection is very nice.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I do like the idea of being able to layer synth with piano--something I can't easily do now but seems to be more and more common in the songs we cover.

You should be able to create whatever layer you want in the Sonic Cell (using its feature that lets you create Performances out of multiple Patches) or by creating a Korg Combi that layers one of its internal sounds with the external Roland sound.

 

You also make a good point about the Nord's weight--and it seems like a good gig bag with backpack straps for the Nord stage 2 76 is a bit hard to come by.

You said 73 before... The 73 is a lot lighter than the 76 (they differ in semi-weighted vs. hammer action).

 

As far as Nords go, do you think an electro might meet my needs better than the stage? It seems more designed for portability, although it's less feature-rich.

An Electro 73 and Stage2 73 are roughly equally portable. Stage2 is much more capable particularly on the synth side of things.

 

 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The VR-09 is a nice instrument overall; Roland released an editor for its deeper functions for iPads. You'd especially want that for the synth section. Manufacturers are notorious for not updating such things after the first gen or so. They put their resources to work on the next big release, so make sure your iPad will run that editor, if its meaningful to you. One man's deal breaker is another's I Can Live With That. If you're getting your gear to a gig that way, I foresee a used Korg Krome or Yamaha MX61 in your future. They have the right specs for your needs, offer broad sound sets, don't require laptops and they're recent enough to hold up to banging around a bit, far better than a vintage item could.

 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

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You said 73 before... The 73 is a lot lighter than the 76 (they differ in semi-weighted vs. hammer action).

 

Ugh, you're right. It was a typo--my apologies. I was looking at the 76. Although now I know there's a lighter 73.

 

Also I clearly need to investigate the options on my SonicCell a little more--thanks for that tip.

 

@CEB I checked out the online demo of that Artis7. It does seem fun.

 

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The VR-09 is a nice instrument overall

Yes, and it is also available in the preferred 7x size in the VR-730... but in this case, Roland-wise, looking at the OP's listed criteria, I think the Juno DS is preferable because of wider selection of sounds and easier live patch recall. VR's biggest advantage is in organ sound/operation, which does not seem to be a priority here.

 

I foresee a used Korg Krome or Yamaha MX61 in your future.

Krome could work, it's kind of between my Juno DS and Yamaha MODX suggestions, at least price-wise... maybe sound-wise as well, but that's more subjective. Since he seems to prefer his SonicCell sounds to his X5D, I was thinking jhe may tend to have a preference for the Roland sounds over Korg's, but really, the Krome is much more different from the X5D than the DS is from the Sonic Cell, so it's would be worth a listen as well.

 

MX doesn't come in a 7x size. Since that size is his preference, and there are numerous 7x options that are in the right price and weight spec, I'd stick with one of those.

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I did consider his desire for a 7x, but I decided to err with caution because he's hauling his instrument on foot. We all know how bad the schlep factor can get, even with a wheeled case. He should consider the 61-key models, just to help winnow it down to the most practical buy. You're also right about the VR-09. Its a bit better as a top 'board than your only one, but sometimes a certain bell rings and you take the plunge on something a bit unlikely. I've "settled" a few times and been better served than I'd expected. Its all part of The Great Synth Project.

 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

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Someone mentioned the Yamaha MODX 7, which I would second that suggestion. Strong all around meat and potatoes board. Great brass, great electric pianos, decent acoustics piano once edited, DX7 sound set if you like the FM sounds and very light weight. Organs are usable but not as flexible as the Roland VR-09, which I owned but found to be cumbersome in the patch selection. Liked the VR-09 but sold it recently. Easy to create layers and splits. It also serves an a computer interface which eliminates the need for an external computer interface device if you want to go down the VST route at some point. Nice touch screen interface with a setlist capabilities. Easy to edit.

 

The action is not the greatest but works for most. I have been using for a while now and really happy with it at the price point. Best if you can get your hands on one to test out in a store before you buy it. This is true for whatever keyboard you are interested in.

Montage 7, Mojo 61, PC-3, XK-3c Pro, Kronos 88, Hammond SK-1, Motif XF- 7, Hammond SK-2, Roland FR-1, FR-18, Hammond B3 - Blond, Hammond BV -Cherry
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Yes The MODX7. I want one for my road rig but I need the keypad sampler in my Roland so I"m still committed to Roland. Patch control on the MODX is good. It"s not as good as Korg SetList on the Kronos but it"s getting there.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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The MODX7 is the history of Yamaha, and then some, over the past 18 years; and a used Nord Stage 2 would offer a lot of hands-on control. Both are good choices; same with some of the others mentioned so far. However, the MODX offers a more extensive, grab-n-go sound set for a cover band. The Stage 2 would likely require more time to set up/organize sounds.

I still like Scott's suggestion the best: a Roland Juno DS76. Another Roland option would be the FA-07; it also offers an equally extensive range of great sounds and features. Some players prefer the SuperNatural modeling-based sounds of the FA-07, others favor the PCM-sampled sound set of the Juno DS 76. I'd definitely give both a listen.

 

Another option would be to replace the X5D with a Korg Kross 2; it offers a lot of great sounds and thoughtful features. That's one I've spent some time with (along with the Roland Juno DS76) and enjoyed playing. Also wondering if the Sonic Cell power issue is repairable. If so, a Kross 2 / Sonic Cell combination might offer familiarity plus a greatly expanded keyboard instrument to work with. The only caveat re the Kross 2 is the choice of keyboard size: it's either 61 or 88, no 73/76 option. Though the OP mentioned 61 as being doable, having 73/76 keys does offer more wiggle room.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ah, yes, the FA-07, like the Krome, provides another option... though again, as you allude to as well, whether it is sonically best will depend on personal taste and exactly which sounds are most important to you.

 

Personally, at that price, I'd take the MODX7 for its sound set, the gig of memory for loading additional sounds, better seamless sound transition, 2 fx per sound vs 1, FM synth, touchscreen patch selection/interface. But FA has strengths in VA synth, and maybe the handful of SuperNatural Acoustic tones. Trigger pads and assignable out can be useful, and it might beat MODX in MIDI functionality and sequencing depending on exactly what you need to do.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The Nord Stage 2 76 at $1,200 is quite the deal, but probably heavier than you want to deal with.

 

I recently bought the

Gator PG-61

for $170 from Amazon and really like the backpack straps. Wheeled bags can be great, but you need back pack straps for stairs! Depending on the size of the 76 note board you get, you might be able to use the 61 note bag.

 

Sounds like you need 76 keys, but if you can deal with 61 I'd also recommend the Korg PA700 auto-arranger keyboard. It has the best sounds of any board I've owned, and while it's not designed like every other board mentioned here, it's an amazing board once you get oriented. I've seen them for $1,000 used, they weigh 22 pounds, and the built-in speakers are very decent, some of the better ones you'll find with 50 watts of amp power. When I first got the board I was really surprised at how good it sounded, how punchy the drums were, and how good the rhythym patterns were. I LOVE the brass, cornet and trombone sounds, its the first time I've had a board where I didn't shy away from playing brass on a keyboard because of how inadequate it sounded.

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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I agree, the Korg arrangers are sometimes unfortunately overlooked here. They are good performance boards even if you don't care about the arranger features. I have the PA1000, which is very similar to the PA700 (the 1000 has upgraded speakers, better keys with aftertouch, tilt screen, more sample memory, some more sounds, vocal processor, some other stuff). I do wish they had made it with 7x keys, though.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Yeah, I've got the Pa1000 as well and love it. Once you experience the quality of musicianship that went into making these Styles, and then hear the vibrant and character-full sounds it has in abundance, you're likely get over your reluctance to even consider an arranger.

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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The one thing I prefer about the 700 over the 1000 is the front panel is easier to see/operate. The black controls on a black background aren't as good as the knobs being on a contrasting background, and the use of red type for some legends on the PA1000 is also more difficult to read.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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