Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

5 Reasons Musicians Should Stop Doing Gigs For $100


Recommended Posts

 

 

I don"t agree with all of his points because some of it is not up to you. I understand what he is saying but there are other factors. People play for free and fuck up the scene, that is a big thing and should be numbers one, it sets a precedent. There are reasons for some of the things he is talking about. People have to remember music is a disposable commodityâ¦â¦â¦..no one cares. I know that"s a not a popular belief but there are competing priorities or forms of entertainment⦠clubs aren"t packed like the 1970"s. The DJ scene/internet changed and ruined a lot of things for musicians. Back then there wasn"t Netflix, streaming services, smartphones or anything like that so more people went out. As wages changed the cost for hiring musicians didn"t. Most bands don"t get a $100 a man even now. I know people personally that are in good bands that struggle.

 

He isn"t being realistic also as different markets are different. I know very few guys making $200 - $500 a man at a gig unless they are making music for a living or playing wedding band/corporate bullshit type gigs. That"s an entirely different scene. Someone should show me where a local band or regional is making a ton playing music? I don"t see it in Western NY or even some other states where I know guys gigging. They all supplement there income differently. Now if he is talking about touring for a living that"s entirely a different thing, which I don"t think he is. I"d rather work with a promoter and club owner to make both parties happy if it"s possible. If you want to think you better than anyone else good luckâ¦.you won"t play out much and be sitting in the basement. Club owners will never pay you what you are worth. If you think of music getting paid by the hour that"s another huge mistake because you"re never going to get your worth unless you are at an extremely high level musically.

 

[video:youtube]

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 82
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

I get an error message when trying to play the video. Is this the correct link?

 

Nord Stage 3 HA88, Nord Stage 3 Compact, Casio CT-S1, Radial Key Largo, Westone AM Pro 30, Rolls PM55P, K&M 18880 + 18881, Bose S1 Pro, JBL 305p MKII, Zoom Q2n-4K

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now remember, I"m old!

 

As a kid the family had to watch The Ed Sullivan Show on Sunday evenings. There were musicians sure, but there were also magicians and jugglers and ventriloquists and mimes and plate spinners and dancers and families of circus performers making human pyramids. For real money.

 

With very few exceptions that world is gone along with Vaudeville.

 

I"m very glad I picked music instead of magic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Few public venues will pay a decent amount unless you're pulling people who wouldn't be there otherwise (who will in turn spend their money on food and drinks). But you're unlikely to develop a following unless you're playing gigs, which you're not going to be paid well for until you have a following. Catch 22.

 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are many original musicians making much more than $100 per gig, I even know some of them. The difference between them and the people that don't is they have fans, lots of them, they can ride into just about any town and fill a room.

 

I'll never understand those that complain about pay, as if they have tons of fans and the promoter/clubs aren't paying them, that really doesn't happen, those clubs are more than happy to pay an act that sells tickets, even desperate to, the guys that bitch about $$ are those that think they're providing a service that takes a lot of work and investment to achieve so they've earned it, and that's not how art works, art isn't a job.

 

So I'll keep playing for little money, because playing is the only way to build fans and fans are the only way to get paid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

people who wouldn't be there otherwise

 

Hey! Here's an idea: "Open Stages" and "Blues Jams" so even players, who wouldn't be there otherwise, will spend their money while waiting their turn to entertain for free.

 

 

 

 

 

____________________________________
Rod

Here for the gear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now remember, I"m old!

 

As a kid the family had to watch The Ed Sullivan Show on Sunday evenings. There were musicians sure, but there were also magicians and jugglers and ventriloquists and mimes and plate spinners and dancers and families of circus performers making human pyramids. For real money. With very few exceptions that world is gone along with Vaudeville. I"m very glad I picked music instead of magic.

 

Jeff Dunham has a net worth of $140MM. Let's see my net worth ...... hmm....

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice thought, but ...

 

I and my bands could demand more, but the only outcome would be that we get far fewer gigs. The way this stuff works is that the venue sets the pay, and we can choose to take it or not. As is the case with most paying jobs.

Want to make your band better?  Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band"

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

His whole scenario that he bases all of this on is unrealistic in my experience. If I'm called up for a gig, usually it's with a gigging band and not a band that doesn't exist that is being thrown together for a one-off gig. They're going to send me a set list, and will not WANT to have to do a separate rehearsal just for me (there was just another thread on this). The time I spend learning songs will be of value for other gigs. If I learn a song, it's not likely that this ONE gig is the only time I'll EVER get paid to play it. There have been some times when I've learned a song that was never played again, but usually it's something I can add to my repertoire that makes me more valuable and also means I may not need to spend as much time preparing for a future gig. So you can't take time learning songs and tack it onto ONE gig, to be reimbursed for that time.

 

When he makes the point that if you make less, you're more likely to slack off, show up late, not give it your all - yeah, if you're unprofessional. The 2 go hand in hand and if you remain professional, you'll likely get more for future gigs.

 

Most bands don"t get a $100 a man even now. I know people personally that are in good bands that struggle.

 

He isn"t being realistic also as different markets are different. I know very few guys making $200 - $500 a man at a gig unless they are making music for a living or playing wedding band/corporate bullshit type gigs. That"s an entirely different scene. Someone should show me where a local band or regional is making a ton playing music? I don"t see it in Western NY or even some other states where I know guys gigging. They all supplement there income differently.

 

Only time I've gotten $100 for a gig is when I was first starting out, or if I've done easy ones just for fun. By easy, I mean I can bring out my acoustic bass and more or less jam. In my most successful cover band playing bars, we got $400-$450 each (bar gigs, much more for private/corporate/wedding, etc) and were booked solid. My least successful band we got $150-$200/man and played a few gigs a month. Filling in with bands now, I tend to get $200-$300. I think the least I've gotten filling in so far was $175.

 

So maybe it's the market, but to me it seems more like experience, professionalism, and making the right choices.

 

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

100 is typical for us, and many gigs pay less. We are not all full-time musicians, though the income is very important for several of us.

 

Corporate gigs we have gotten do pay higher, our typical gig is at a bar/club/restaurant. Personally I think bands are going the way of the dinosaur at most places. We've already seen a couple places close recently and these were run by owners that REALLY wanted to do live music (nice stages, they required good bands) but they were losing money. Just not enough people that want to come out to bars period (crackdowns on drunk driving have certainly had an effect IMO), and a whole new generation seems not to care if music is canned or live.

 

On the other hand, tribute bands seem to make a LOT more around here. Don't think I could stomach it personally but it depends just how tribute-y they are I guess.

 

I take issue with the "I make less so I'm a deadbeat" stuff...we wouldn't be late to a free benefit, that's just not cool. We may not be pros but we try to act like it in every way possible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Way too many variables to make gross generalizations.

 

Just more interwebz clickbait, I refrained.

 

Tip jars and swag can make a big difference.

Not playing the same places (or places that are nearby) too often will increase your draw, over-saturation of a market can kill you.

So, there is some traveling involved if you want to gig steady.

 

I was in a Motown cover band booked by an agency, years ago. We played from Whistler to Seattle and some gigs paid well but adding in travel time will bring the averages down.

The agency took 15% but got us some gigs most bands would never hear about - corporate events. We once played the top of the Space Needle for a National Librarians Convention. Fun gig but very time consuming and despite serving more food than the librarians could ever eat, there were no comps of any sort. From departure to return literally took over 10 hours, everything was difficult. Load in, load out was a nightmare. Of course you find all these things out on the spot, take your $250 and move on.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We once played the top of the Space Needle for a National Librarians Convention.

 

I'm sorry, but the first thing that popped into my head is on the downbeat, they all turn to you, put their finger to their mouth, and go "Sshhhhhhhh!!!"

 

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not arguing the points, but $100 gigs do not exist in many parts of the country.

 

They exist, but like I said, that was maybe when I was first starting out in college. Somebody local posted the same video on FB today and one of the first responses was "who plays for $100?"

 

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We once played the top of the Space Needle for a National Librarians Convention.

 

I'm sorry, but the first thing that popped into my head is on the downbeat, they all turn to you, put their finger to their mouth, and go "Sshhhhhhhh!!!"

 

:- D

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Somebody local posted the same video on FB today and one of the first responses was "who plays for $100?"

 

Solo acts in not-overly-rich areas for sure. I charge about the same as the going rate for other musicians in my area, which is $50/hour, including setup if there's more than usual, or $45/hour plus tips. Usually piano plus accordion (so the Motif XF8, sometimes the Krome on a second tier, one or two accordions, two mics [one per side of the accordion], a mixer and a speaker or two). It's pretty unreasonable to ask for more than this for private events here. My usual gigs are about 2.5-3 hours so approx. $150. It's what I've charged my whole life. If I have a weekend festival-type gig out of town, I usually am paid around $400-500, but that's for 8-9 one-hour segments split over three stages on three days.

 

I'm happy with that. But I am not making a living from music.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not arguing the points, but $100 gigs do not exist in many parts of the country.

Not sure which way you meant this, but I can attest to the fact that many times a $100 gig is a luxury, in some areas.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a local winery here offering $50 per gig for 3+ hours.

 

One of my friends was performing there (solo guitar and singing). I was interested in doing some of my original tunes there until he mentioned the pay.

When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This...

 

...clubs are more than happy to pay an act that sells tickets, even desperate to

Simply put, there are many more entertainment options available now than ever before. Why spend the money and fight the crowds to go out when there is so much to keep you at home?

 

The other side of this equation concerns the level of musicianship, professionalism, and entertainment value live acts bring to the venue. The barrier to entry is low and many acts could do much more to improve the quality of their product.

 

Tom

 

 

"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wouldn't consider wedding or corporate gigs BS type gigs. If you rely on music for all or part of your income it's part of the routine.

What about steady vs one offs? Cash vs 1099? Tip jar?

I play steady solo weekends on acoustic piano which if not for the tip jar helping out the cash pay I'd quit. But it's a short drive, no load in and some regular listeners.

Not a dream gig but not a lot of them out there anyway. Lots of places just have cable tv and piped in music.

Last night word got out there was a dui checkpoint down the road. A couple next to the piano started panicking. I was going the same way and tolded them of a road to bypass it, which I did.

Hope they made it. This checkpoint seemed to be going nowhere and was at least 15-20 minutes long drivethru at the pace it was going.

So, $64 in the tip jar was nice. I do the occasional event gig with a band and skip out on the solo gig at times. More money but way more driving and hassle not to mention theft of instruments which happens around here. Do I want more pay sure? Sure last week was packed they had to turn away regulars, last night not so much. Balance.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 Reasons Musicians Should Stop Telling Other Musicans How Much To Accept For A Gig...

 

There. I fixed it for you.

 

How about it's nobody else's business what I charge or don't charge for my time. If I want to play music for free, play for tips, $50 or have a minimum of $500 for an appearance that's entirely up to me as the individual. These topics have come up on Facebook before from our local musicians community because one player wants to blame everybody else for their market value going down on bar and pub gigs. Who made YOU the gig pay police?

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a local winery here offering $50 per gig for 3+ hours.

 

One of my friends was performing there (solo guitar and singing). I was interested in doing some of my original tunes there until he mentioned the pay.

 

There are several wineries in my local area. The businesses that offer a venue are specific or quirky with entertainment.

 

Three I approached were identical in 1 fact- if the entertainment does not encourage large consumption of wine, they are not interested in the act.

For example, they refuse jazz acts since folks are inclined to listen to jazz vs getting drunk.

 

The crass economics are the rule out here , not the artistic expression or musical excellence

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, you! Are you having trouble making a living playing music? Try this: create a YouTube channel and boost your subscriber numbers by saying you can teach them how to make a living in music "quickly and easily," then just dispense the same advise that's been echoing around internet forums for years. Yes, YouTube will actually pay you a portion of their advertising money, and you didn't have to play a lick of music for it.

 

Only got 2 points into it, but as for "market depreciation" If you choose as your profession something so fun and inherently rewarding that people will do it for free, then you shouldn't be surprised that folks are (allegedly) undercutting your value by doing it for free. It's gonna happen and you can't stop it.

 

It's not that he's completely wrong about the economics. There's at least a kernel of truth in it. But I have a fundamental problem with musicians telling other musicians not to play music wherever and whenever they want to.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are several wineries in my local area. The businesses that offer a venue are specific or quirky with entertainment.

 

Three I approached were identical in 1 fact- if the entertainment does not encourage large consumption of wine, they are not interested in the act.

For example, they refuse jazz acts since folks are inclined to listen to jazz vs getting drunk.

 

The crass economics are the rule out here , not the artistic expression or musical excellence

crass

/kras/

adjective:

1. lacking sensitivity, refinement, or intelligence.

 

I"m not thinking that"s the correct adjective for a business owner who prefers to pay for things that help their business make money. I"m sure there are many places where people are free to demonstrate their artistic expression or musical excellence. It comes across as entitled and self-absorbed for someone to believe that it"s a pejorative-worthy shortcoming of a business owner who won"t provide the use of their property and pay someone who isn"t going to help their business.

 

If you"re not going to be an asset to a business, then you"re actually asking for charity when you ask them to reduce their income so you can express your artistry and musical excellence. That"s cool if that"s the route you want to take, but it doesn"t make a business owner 'crass' if they don"t want to donate to your cause.

 

Nord Stage 3 HA88, Nord Stage 3 Compact, Casio CT-S1, Radial Key Largo, Westone AM Pro 30, Rolls PM55P, K&M 18880 + 18881, Bose S1 Pro, JBL 305p MKII, Zoom Q2n-4K

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, you! Are you having trouble making a living playing music? Try this: create a YouTube channel and boost your subscriber numbers by saying you can teach them how to make a living in music "quickly and easily," then just dispense the same advise that's been echoing around internet forums for years. Yes, YouTube will actually pay you a portion of their advertising money, and you didn't have to play a lick of music for it.

 

Only got 2 points into it, but as for "market depreciation" If you choose as your profession something so fun and inherently rewarding that people will do it for free, then you shouldn't be surprised that folks are (allegedly) undercutting your value by doing it for free. It's gonna happen and you can't stop it.

 

It's not that he's completely wrong about the economics. There's at least a kernel of truth in it. But I have a fundamental problem with musicians telling other musicians not to play music wherever and whenever they want to.

 

 

A few thoughts on the topic.

 

There"s a difference between art, creating art, sharing art and business. Business has a whole other purpose. Music as a business is a business like any other. It requires a viable idea and plan, entrepreneurial knowledge, development of the product/service, cash, marketing, sales, the right pricing, team development, knowing your region, etc. In other words - a great deal of time and attention from the owner that is beyond and in addition to the X amount of years you invested in learning to play and developing musical skills.

 

If you are not highly successful in running a musical business/act then you must diversify your sources of musical income - gig solo and in band or various combo situations in varied musical styles, teach, use technology to broaden your reach, offer your musical services to people less experienced and skilled than you, get into producing/recording/arranging for others, publish your tutorials/arrangements/recordings and sell an actual product, etc.

 

It"s a lot of work. Dwarfs the time and energy necessary for music as a hobby or for fun. And over a lifetime like any other job, becomes less interesting and less 'fun'. I"ll do an open mic with musician friends, fundraisers, etc. for free. I won"t give away my product or services for free because that"s a failing business model. You"re worth how much your customers are willing to pay and their belief that they are getting a product/service of great quality. So work hard, aim high, and be better than the guy across the street that"s giving it away for free.

 

Just my two cents. ymmv

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Imagine if YouTube existed in 1960. John and Paul are talking and one says "we should go to Hamburg and play all night every night. The money's not guaranteed, but the experience will make us the greatest rock band on the planet." "I hear you, but this guy on YouTube says we'll be deflating our self-esteem and depreciating the market." "Hmm, I guess he's right. Let's get day jobs instead."

 

The point is, there are many paths to success, and infinite paths to failure. But taking a chance on something that doesn't promise an immediate payback isn't always a dumb move.

 

 

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great presentation in Video, thanks for posting that.

 

It's hard to grasp the context for this: you have to imagine a time when a union card was required to play for money, period.

 

Bing Crosby was the first paid singer in a travelling band, who did not double with an instrument.

 

I love those 30's recordings where only a third of the time has lyrics. Before marketing kicked in.

 

The complexity of it all:

The Great Musicians Strike

 

Today, we have the Uber model. Jonathan Swift predicted it all. People were less distracted and smarter before screens.

 

Not just music makers: taxi drivers, ski instructors, supermarket baggers, all make a fraction of what they did in the 80s. On the other hand music and gear are cheap and plentiful. Like taxi rides.

RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, 

SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2

Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4

MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals

Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...