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kurz forte se 88 or PC4


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I was going to pull the trigger on the PC4 to replace my PC1x .... but see an online retailer has just "sweetened" the offer by reducing the price of the Forte SE 88 .... wonder if that would be an option (not as light as the PC4, but still 10lbs lighter than my PC1x)

PC1x, Hammond XK1c, Deep Mind 6, MS500 (gig rig)

Kurz PC4, Mini Moog Model D, Little Phatty, Hammond M3, Leslie 145, viscount op-3, Behringer model D, Roland GAIA.. (home studio)

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PC4 looks much better to me. Is the Forte reduced enough to be cheaper than the PC4? If so, then I guess it would depend on how valuable you find the PC4 advantages.

 

Advantages over Forte SE (someone correct me if I'm wrong about any of this...):

 

Large color display.

2 GB user sample space (instead of 188 mb).

Knobs above the sliders (though no dedicated EQ knobs).

Twice the polyphony.

FM synthesis engine.

16 zones (vs. 8).

Twice as many factory programs.

Second pair of auxiliary outputs.

Second CC pedal jack.

Ribbon input.

16 arpeggiators (vs. 8).

Additional line inputs.

Riff generators.

MIDI CC step sequencers.

Dedicated transport controls.

5.5 kg less travel weight (though with external power supply vs. internal)

Dedicated transpose buttons.

Probably better feeling action.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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PC4 looks much better to me. Is the Forte reduced enough to be cheaper than the PC4? If so, then I guess it would depend on how valuable you find the PC4 advantages.

 

Advantages over Forte SE (someone correct me if I'm wrong about any of this...):

 

Large color display.

2 GB user sample space (instead of 188 mb).

Knobs above the sliders (though no dedicated EQ knobs).

Twice the polyphony.

FM synthesis engine.

16 zones (vs. 8).

Twice as many factory programs.

Second pair of auxiliary outputs.

Second CC pedal jack.

Ribbon input.

16 arpeggiators (vs. 8).

Additional line inputs.

Riff generators.

MIDI CC step sequencers.

Dedicated transport controls.

5.5 kg less travel weight (though with external power supply vs. internal)

Dedicated transpose buttons.

Probably better feeling action.

 

Is there a better value right now? PC4 is impressive.

 

RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, 

SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2

Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4

MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals

Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. 

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The PC4 is also likely to get new software features for much longer than the SE, which strikes me as a first attempt at a cost-reduced Forte that didn"t really hit the mark. Opinions will differ regarding their respective actions, of course, but the SE"s TP100 doesn"t get a lot of love so that doesn"t seem like a draw for many. In every other way that matters the PC4 looks to be clearly superior. I"m not surprised dealers are trying to move SE stock as aggressively as they can.

 

... and I agree with the poster above me that the PC4 looks to be a real monster at the price point.

Acoustic: Shigeru Kawai SK-7 ~ Breedlove C2/R

MIDI: Kurzweil Forte ~ Sequential Prophet X ~ Yamaha CP88 ~ Expressive E Osmose

Electric: Schecter Solo Custom Exotic ~ Chapman MLB1 Signature Bass

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The PC4 is also likely to get new software features for much longer than the SE

...and it seems like it's already happening. The new Forte OS which adds the FM synthesis engine doesn't appear to apply to the Forte SE.

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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In the long run, you won't even remember the little bit more that you pay for a PC4.

 

I got a PC4 last week. Of the many boards I've had over the years, this is the closest ever to my dream board.

Previous to this, my K2600 came close, but I didn't like dealing with scsi, and it was way too heavy.

My Andromeda was the closest I've had for an analog board. Just to give you my frame of reference, and my priorities.

 

AnotherScott gives a good rundown of the differences, and you've probably seen the Kurzweil comparison chart.

I don't think you'd ever regret getting a PC4 over the Forte SE, but the SE looks like a very nice board too.

 

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  • 8 months later...

PC4.

 

Forte SE was a failed product for Kurzweil. The PC4 corrects its flaws.

 

However, if you can find a used Forte or Forte 7 anywhere close to $2,000 you should get one. The resale value of the Forte dropped off tremendously when PC4 came out, but Forte is still the flagship and worth every penny. With Purgatory Creeks Virtual Keyboard Collection and David Weiser Sounds, plus the PC3 sounds and FM I've never had anything that sounded so good.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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PC4.

 

Forte SE was a failed product for Kurzweil. The PC4 corrects its flaws.

 

However, if you can find a used Forte or Forte 7 anywhere close to $2,000 you should get one. The resale value of the Forte dropped off tremendously when PC4 came out, but Forte is still the flagship and worth every penny. With Purgatory Creeks Virtual Keyboard Collection and David Weiser Sounds, plus the PC3 sounds and FM I've never had anything that sounded so good.

 

That's interesting. I've been looking into these three models for a while and have pretty much decided on the Forte 7, although I haven't played any of them and really want to before deciding. That's partly because I particularly want the 76 note keyboard for size and weight reasons. General consensus also seems to be that the Forte has better action, better build quality and a sturdier chassis.

 

Comparing the PC4 with Forte (not SE), the following would remain from AnotherScott's list as advantages of the PC4:

 

Knobs above the sliders (though no dedicated EQ knobs)

Twice the polyphony (but KB3 mode in Forte doesn't count towards 128 total, so it's plenty).

Twice as many factory programs (actually the PC4 has more than three times as many as the Forte)

Ribbon input.

Additional line inputs.

Dedicated transport controls.

5 kg less travel weight than Forte 7, or 7kg less than Forte 8 (though with external power supply vs. internal)

 

Whereas the following would be advantages of the Forte:

 

LED ladders with the sliders.

3.3 GB user sample space to PC4's 2GB.

Forte has three switch pedal jacks to PC4's two (though I can't think what anyone would use that many for).

Probably better build quality.

Better action.

 

Everything else in the list is the same between the PC4 and Forte, I think.

 

That's a fairly even number of features each way, and probably comes down to which are more relevant to you. For me, build quality and action are much more important than all the others - although I would like to have the larger set of factory programs.

 

The Forte is much more expensive though.

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Forte has 16 GB flashplay, vs 2 GB in the PC4... i.e. it has a much bigger wave sample set. The Forte-specific sounds are "Japanese and German Grands, new Classic EPs, Wurlitzer, Clav, Harpsichord, Orchestral Percussion, Celeste, Glockenspiel, Chimes, Bells and Crotales" -- the PC4 has smaller versions of these Forte sounds (or may be missing some of them?).

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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'Knobs above the sliders (though no dedicated EQ knobs)

Twice the polyphony (but KB3 mode in Forte doesn't count towards 128 total, so it's plenty).

Twice as many factory programs (actually the PC4 has more than three times as many as the Forte)

Ribbon input.

Additional line inputs.

Dedicated transport controls.

5 kg less travel weight than Forte 7, or 7kg less than Forte 8'

 

... surely wouldn"t want to miss those PC4 perks.

 

And if I"m not mistaken Forte also lacks the new Lena FPGA chip.

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'Knobs above the sliders (though no dedicated EQ knobs)

Twice the polyphony (but KB3 mode in Forte doesn't count towards 128 total, so it's plenty).

Twice as many factory programs (actually the PC4 has more than three times as many as the Forte)

Ribbon input.

Additional line inputs.

Dedicated transport controls.

5 kg less travel weight than Forte 7, or 7kg less than Forte 8'

 

... surely wouldn"t want to miss those PC4 perks.

 

To be honest the factory programs are the only one I'm concerned about - and I'm not sure whether PC-series ones can be loaded onto the Forte anyway. Certainly there's loads of third party ones available to increase the choice.

 

Forte apparently uses separate memory for the KB3 organ mode so it's 128 PLUS whatever that uses. I've never owned a keyboard with more than 128 and never felt it as a bottleneck, but then maybe that's because I'm looking at it as a performance instrument not a studio workstation, as I do the studio stuff ITB.

 

The travel weight is a double-edged sword: The Forte has a steel chassis whereas the PC4 is plastic, and Forte apparently has a better action (which probably means more weight). I don't really have a problem taking my current 24kg keyboard to gigs, so figure losing 6kg plus some length to get the 18kg Forte 7 will make it feel really easy. Losing any more weight beyond that is just not important enough to me to sacrifice build and action quality. One thing I've learnt is that quality and roadworthiness means weight, to a degree. The keyboard I'm upgrading from is an all-metal Oberheim beast that has never given me a moment's problem on stage or off.

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Just a quick note on the "plastic" build of the PC4.

 

I've been gigging with my Casio PX-5S which is essentially plastic for almost 7 years now. It's been beat on pretty good. I have no issues whatsoever with the shell. It is solid.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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Yeah, to be clear: I haven't actually seen or played a PC4 and want to do so before deciding. I'm only going on specs and forum comments etc. Of course there's plastic and there's plastic, and there's more to it than that in appraising build quality.

 

I guess I just mean that once you get weight down to the point where you can carry a board on your own in its case from van to stage (even if it's really heavy), losing more weight beyond that point is less important to me than roadworthiness and build quality. So if the difference between an 18kg board and a 13kg board is due to the fact the former is made of steel and the latter of plastic, I'd rather have the former because it's light enough for me to carry so what's the point of it being any lighter? I'm not planning to use it between sets in my juggling act.

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Is anyone here in Forte SE beta testing?

The video in the post above hints at some FM loading and fx additions, but no real details, like if it'll be full FM editing or just loading, etc.

I know you're asked not to disclose stuff, but it could help someone decide on an SE.

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There's a store not too far from me that's going through an ownership change and they're blowing stuff out.

They put out a new Forte SE a few days ago. I went to check on it again just now and it was gone.

I could have gotten it for $1,190 (plus tax). Of course, they couldn't advertise that - it was 'in store' only.

 

I hesitated because I have the PC4 and don't want another 88 key board.

I've got my fingers crossed that Kurzweil comes out with 76/61 key versions of the PC4 soon.

Even if they do come out with smaller PC4 versions, I suspect that Forte SE will always be 'the one that got away' for me in the future.

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Even if they do come out with smaller PC4 versions, I suspect that Forte SE will always be 'the one that got away' for me in the future.
Have you played a Fatar TP100? Your tastes may vary, but I don't think you're missing out.

 

Cheers, Mike.

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Even if they do come out with smaller PC4 versions, I suspect that Forte SE will always be 'the one that got away' for me in the future.
Have you played a Fatar TP100? Your tastes may vary, but I don't think you're missing out.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

No, I haven't played one. But I'm not especially fussy when it comes to actions.

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What would you be missing in your PC4, @felis?

 

Nothing. My PC4's not going anywhere.

 

Just getting impatient waiting for a smaller PC4 version to supplement it with.

The size of the Forte SE is the main thing that stopped me from buying it on the spot at that price.

I didn't get to try it, because it was new and still boxed up.

 

But yes - the SE is missing some stuff compared to the PC4. A pair of outputs, all the knobs, that 2GB of user space and so on.

But still, I thought that was a pretty good deal.

I can wait for a PC476 or PC461 though.

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