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OT: Calling All Star Trek Fans


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I likes all the original Star Trek movies, but Rick Berman himself said the whole conceit of Star Trek doesn"t really work for movies, especially today"s action (that is, explosion) driven ones, which sf like Star Trek has to be. That"s why the return to TV is such a great thing.

Brilliant! I've always felt the same way. I like the Star Trek movies, but only because they stand on the backs of the shows. The movies are just fun fluffy side adventures to be gobbled up. That's what makes the JJ reboots so weird and unenjoyable. You have a cast that (though you know the characters) you've never seen before, their dynamic is either different of trying too hard to be something that's long since passed. It's not a disgrace to Star Trek, as it's a disgrace to good cinema. Beyond started to find its footing, maybe we've gotten to know the cast well enough that the dynamic worked... or just maybe Simon Pegg is such a fantastic writer that he made something impossible work, I dunno.

 

In any case, Star Trek movies only have a chance of working at all (some don't) if they're bolstered by a TV series to really get things going. Star Trek is a slow churn.

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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3: Search for Spock (Christopher Lloyd - great; story - meh)

My friend Joey is a linguist and good friend of Mark Okrand (creator of Klingon). He relayed the story of Mark going over to Christopher Lloyd's house to help coach him with his Klingon. Chris was a lovely guy, and as fun as you can imagine him to be. Read a bunch of the Klingon lines very well. Then after about an hour, says, "okay, hold on, let me go get my teeth" (all Klingon actors have to wear prosthetic teeth). Slipped them on, and sounded like absolute GARBAGE, impossible to get all the consonants right when you've got a half inch of plastic in your mouth. Mark had to go back and rework a lot of the script just so that anything could be made intelligible at all.

 

This is one of the many reasons that Discovery's Klingon is so slowed down. I actually offended Joey (who's fluent in Klingon himself and a professor of Linguistics) when I relayed to him that "most fans think the actors are struggling with their Klingon". I guess he worked with the woman who was the Klingon language advisor, and it turns out Mark's original concept was that Klingon had a different pacing than most human languages, and that Discovery was actually the first show to really follow Mark's vision. But to a layman like me, it just seems like that actors are struggling. Joey found that an interesting criticism. I don't think I'm alone in this, and that's why they sped the pacing up in Season2, along with a lot of "Red October"-style code switching.

 

Also, they new masks in Discovery are so that they can avoid prosthetics. It took Michael Dorn 4 hours to get into his Worf face. They wanted a huge cast of Klingons, so they made masks that they can slip on in 5mins. I think they look like crap, but I can understand the technical reasons. Just... why did they give them 4 nostrils and elude that they had 3 penises?

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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This may be beyond heresy, but I quite enjoy Star Trek 5, and believe it always gets a lot of bandwagon hate. Come on, it's not that bad. For one, it has one of the best soundtracks in the series. And it has some GREAT comedic moments between the characters. Honestly, it feels like the prototype for a Simon Pegg/Nick Frost buddy movie with Kirk/Spock/McCoy and their weird dynamic. Yes, I know Shatner's ego is all over the walls, and the overall story is CRAP, it's not high art, but it's got some fun moments. I can sit back and be entertained by it more than some of the other movies that try too hard (Generations), or try too little (TMP).

 

Intro scene with Kirk being a dipshit in Yellowstone is worth it in of itself.

 

Who's gonna come out and admit that they enjoyed it too?

 

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While I wouldn't call ST5 a great movie and it has some cringe-worthy aspects, I have to admit I enjoyed it, actually more than 6 or most of the TNG movies. And it did give us this...

 

http://m.quickmeme.com/img/c5/c5639bf8b09ac0dbb6fae7651ae255679037bbe7ac535c5d67ba4d6e2deb2917.jpg

 

 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Wha sucked me into JJ's Star Trek was the opening scene in the first one, with Kirk's father. Even though that rewrote Kirk's backstory (you'd think the original timeline would have mentioned that Kirk's dad was in Star Fleet), I thought that sequence of what he did was very powerful and moving.

 

What was lacking was that those movies weren't about what humanity could be, something that Gene's vision imparted to the TV series. To me, that's what overrides anything else in Star Trek. It's not just a space adventure. It's about things like IDIC.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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What was lacking was that those movies weren't about what humanity could be, something that Gene's vision imparted to the TV series.

 

Exactly. :thu:

 

People were asking me what I didn't like about the reboot. My first comment was always "JJ Abrams doesn't have the same vision as Gene Roddenberry."

 

 

 

When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
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What was lacking was that those movies weren't about what humanity could be, something that Gene's vision imparted to the TV series.

 

Exactly. :thu:

 

People were asking me what I didn't like about the reboot. My first comment was always "JJ Abrams doesn't have the same vision as Gene Roddenberry."

 

 

I do think the casting, for the most part, is inspired. Especially Karl Urban as McCoy and Zachary Quinto as Spock. And Chris Pine shows flashes of Shatner. I keep waiting for an over-acting moment, snuck in with a wink and a nod.

The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

 

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin

 

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And Chris Pine shows flashes of Shatner. I keep waiting for an over-acting moment, snuck in with a wink and a nod.

At the end of the first movie, I can't recall the exact line, he's walking on to the bridge and says, "Bonesâ¦" with that exact same sort of punch Shatner used to say it. I always get a kick out of that.

 

I agree with you about the casting. Bruce Greenwood as Pike, Anton Yelchin as Chekov, John Cho as Sulu, I liked 'em all.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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My biggest issue with JJ's movies is that ALL THREE ended up being about a single insane villain coming after us with a terrible weapon. I already mentioned how Nemesis and ST2 shared that (Shinzon/Khan). Obviously lots of other kinds of stories can be told... in literally hundreds of other Trek episodes and movies that had preceded them, this was almost never the plot (I can't think of any off-hand, but I imagine it must have popped up)... yet after doing it with ST2 and again in Nemesis, Abrams kind of did it three more times. Each time we wait years for yet another story about a madman with a personal obsession to destroy us and a tool to do it. (It doesn't matter whether "us" is our captain or crew member or ship or planet, whatever... same plot device).

 

Yeah, Chris Pine got off a great little Shatner-ism at the end of the first one. Though the main re-casting didn't thrill me overall, except for Karl Urban who amazingly channeled McCoy without in any way "doing" DeForest Kelly. Pine is fun to watch, but he wasn't Kirk. Quinto was pretty good, but he lacked the gravitas of Spock... I actually think it came down to their not having cast someone with a deep enough voice. While I like Simon Pegg in other things, he was absolutely not Scotty, they turned him into comic relief. Anton Yelchin was an excellent Chekov. The Sulu and Uhura were just okay, but since the originals were not so heavily defined in the first place, I give them more latitude there. Bruce Greenwood was outstanding, and Chris Hemsworth though a new character was a better Captain Kirk than Chris Pine was. He was great, and I'd rather they had built the new series around him as captain instead of Pine, it would have felt more legitimately Trek.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Insurrection reminded me of "Search for Spock"... nothing particularly wrong with it, but it felt slow and plodding. And yes, it was exactly like a 2hour episode.

 

Insurrection gets a bad rap. I've seen it a few times... there's really more there than you might think, and the music is top notch.

 

 

Agree. I actually like Insurrection better than ST1, 6, 7, and 10. Once I watched it twice I got a better idea of what was going on.

 

This may be beyond heresy, but I quite enjoy Star Trek 5, and believe it always gets a lot of bandwagon hate. Come on, it's not that bad. For one, it has one of the best soundtracks in the series. And it has some GREAT comedic moments between the characters. Honestly, it feels like the prototype for a Simon Pegg/Nick Frost buddy movie with Kirk/Spock/McCoy and their weird dynamic. Yes, I know Shatner's ego is all over the walls, and the overall story is CRAP, it's not high art, but it's got some fun moments. I can sit back and be entertained by it more than some of the other movies that try too hard (Generations), or try too little (TMP).

 

Intro scene with Kirk being a dipshit in Yellowstone is worth it in of itself.

 

Who's gonna come out and admit that they enjoyed it too?

 

Me. :laugh: Liked it a lot. Can I make a statement that is even more of a heresy? I think ST5 was better than the Original Series. :rocker:

 

 

 

I have watched every Star Trek movie except for Into Darkness, and most of Voyager, TNG, and Enterprise (I"ve watched some of TOS and a few episodes of DS9 but not Discovery). The Voyage Home/ST4 is my favorite of any of the movies, but I like time travel (hence I also liked the Temporal Cold War in ENT and have watched every episode involving time travel in any Trek series). First Contact/ST8 is my second pick though they"re both pretty close to a tie for me. Time Travel, the Borg, invasion, the Phoenix, yep. :thu:

 

Star Trek 1 was not that interesting. A good concept but very very slow and drawn out. Wrath of Khan was pretty good. Search for Spock was better I actually thought.

ST5 was very good but a little different for Star Trek. I didn"t care for ST6/The Undiscovered Country; not the best plot or acting in my opinion. Generations was not my favorite. Not because of Kirk dying but it was really sort of 'strange' if that makes sense. We did get to see the Enterprise B though. Insurrection I really (mostly) liked; a different plot, new tech, and nice scoring. On the other hand, Nemesis I just rewatched last month. It seemed so disconnected from the others and was closer to the new trilogy than to the older movies. Not a big fan.

 

Speaking of the new trilogy (haven"t seen Into Darkness but I have watched the others), I don"t like JJ Abrams" directing very much. I like alternate timelines and all, but both the reboot and Beyond seemed to be just mediocre, dark moody movies focused more on the killing than any 'science'; not really in the tradition of the old franchise.

 

As far as the individual series are concerned, Voyager is my favorite, followed by The Next Generation. Enterprise is a distant third; great concepts and VFX, but I thought it became more focused on the crew members themselves than on the actual events taking place; just a pet peeve of mine. TOS and DS9 are sort of strange I think. Not quite my cup of tea. Excited to see what the new series will be like. I don"t have All Access as we don"t have good internet up here in the woods, but this could convince me if its good enough. Discovery looked like a washout, sort of like Stargate Universe.

 

 

 

 

Well, that got me talking, didn"t it? :laugh: I had best beam back up to my ready room for my cup of Earl Grey, hot. :abduct:

 

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Discovery Season1 is ABSOLUTELY a "Stargate Universe" travesty. However, Season2 completely blasts away those grim-dark aspects from Season1, and fully embrace the quirky, hopeful future that is Star Trek. Worth a watch. Stargate Universe is an awful show.

 

But I blame Battlestar Galactica for ALL of this. It may have not been terrible in-of-itself, but it was the most successful Sci-Fi in years, and everyone else had to copy its tone. I wasn't a fan. To me it just felt like Days of Our Lives in space. Lots of unprofessional personal drama and backstabbing, everybody hates each other, everybody fights and f***s, not much actual "Sci-Fi" but when there is, it's always mystical and weird. But it was a hit. Then the fun-loving Stargate had to make a dismal copycat series, and JJ Abrams had to insert that soap opera drama into the movies. Discovery Season1 is just another retread. Thankfully, i think that age is starting to play itself out. The writers realized that Season1 didn't work, and we're starting to see lighter, more nerdy SciFi come back. Thank god!

 

PS: I will say that although I don't think it's amazing, I thought "Beyond" was far-and-away the best of the JJ Trilogy. It finally felt like a community of characters working together, there were some wonderful moments, particularly between Bones and Spock. Wasn't great cinema, but I thought it was better "Trek" than the first two. "Into Darkness" was just terrible.

Puck Funk! :)

 

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But I blame Battlestar Galactica for ALL of this. It may have not been terrible in-of-itself, but it was the most successful Sci-Fi in years, and everyone else had to copy its tone. I wasn't a fan. To me it just felt like Days of Our Lives in space. Lots of unprofessional personal drama and backstabbing, everybody hates each other, everybody fights and f***s, not much actual "Sci-Fi"

 

The original 1970's Battlestar Galactica wasn't like that at all. Have you ever seen it?

 

 

 

When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
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The original 1970's Battlestar Galactica wasn't like that at all. Have you ever seen it?

 

 

 

Yes - what Synthoid said! The original Galactica was a blatant Star Wars ripoff but it had a certain panache to it that made it fun to watch, much like TOS and also Firefly (and don't even get me started bitching about how Fox pulled the plug on that series waaaaay to early :) ). In the Galctica reboot it was like they tried to suck the very last ounce out of any joy of living that might have still remained and, as Eric says, everyone felt a need to copy that feeling after that. Also,The Orville may shamelessly copy Star Trek but at least there's some hope for the future in that series and it's fun to watch as well. Amazing, this correlation between keyboard players and SciFi geekedness. It may spell hope (or doom) for humanity after all :)

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Yes - what Synthoid said! The original Galactica was a blatant Star Wars ripoff but it had a certain panache to it that made it fun to watch, much like TOS and also Firefly (and don't even get me started bitching about how Fox pulled the plug on that series waaaaay to early :) ). In the Galctica reboot it was like they tried to suck the very last ounce out of any joy of living that might have still remained and, as Eric says, everyone felt a need to copy that feeling after that. Also,The Orville may shamelessly copy Star Trek but at least there's some hope for the future in that series and it's fun to watch as well. Amazing, this correlation between keyboard players and SciFi geekedness. It may spell hope (or doom) for humanity after all :)

Clarification, I'm talking about the BSG reboot.

 

Love The Orville! I feel like Seth McFarlane pulled an amazing bait-and-switch on Fox. They expected him to do a goofy comedy, and the first few episodes set that up. Now, it's full fledged "serious" Star Trek in all but name, and really carries the Roddenberry torch beautifully. I also love that they got rid of transporters. As much as I like them, they were simply a product of keeping production costs down with using shuttle sets. If you think about it, they rarely actually do anything that a 5min shuttle ride can't. One of the nice developments from DS9 and Enterprise is they used shuttle rides for some nice one-on-one character scenes, and cut down on the "instant scene change" jumps that TNG and TOS had. Orville obviously noticed this, and purposefully doesn't have transporter technology to make this more available.

 

In TNG, they had to make up weird reasons for using the shuttle and getting those scenes. The weirdest was Picard + Wesley taking a shuttle to get Picard heart surgery, when the Enterprise could have been there an 30secs. It made for some nice personal moments, but man did the plot points feel forced!

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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It sucks that The Orville will no longer be on Fox and will now be on a paid service I don"t subscribe to (Netflix?). I was really digging it. I loved that not only did he have some Star Trek vets behind the scenes such as Brannon Braga producing and Frakes directing, but some vets acting as well.

 

I generally agree with the comments about the BSG reboot. It was really annoying they hardly gave them a win, there was always some new disappointment or struggle before you knew it. But that"s Ron Moore for you. I think when he did Trek, he pushed for more darkness in it. OTOH, his new series For All Mankind on Apple TV+ looks like it could be really good.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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EricBarker wrote:

 

"Clarification, I'm talking about the BSG reboot."

 

Sorry Eric, I should have described it better. So was I.

 

Bone Muskeleton wrote:

 

"It sucks that The Orville will no longer be on Fox and will now be on a paid service I don"t subscribe to (Netflix?)."

 

I have the solution in one word for you: Firestick.

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I've had my time with Star Trek and I'm with Brian Posehn on how Lucas defiled StarWars. Now I'm more of a "Why is the Hulk not naked after Banner bursts out of his SHIRT? Why do the pants hold up?" guy. Answer: Shut UP and ogle Scarlett like a real man.

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 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

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Got my 13th Doctor (Jodi Whittaker) costume all ready for Halloween! Yeah, I seem to have a habit of cross-dressing on Halloween, but now I get to do it while being a huge nerd!

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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This says it all, doesn't it? ;):D

Hilarious!

 

Now, I don't want to detract or be pedantic, because I found that very, very funny (especially thinking about George Lucas with little action figures). It just made me think a bit and I wanted to discuss the differences between the two franchise's philosophies. We all know Star Wars has its share of elevated philosophy, too (I mean, some of Yoda's monologues in Empire are just classic, and move me to this day). It's just that Trek is absolutely about the human race as it could be, and what we could aspire to. Star Wars isn't that, because as much as it's always been first and foremost a fun adventure serial in space, its stories are rooted in contemporary human conflicts. The original film was a Vietnam allegory, the prequels were trying to be a War on Terror allegory, and I argue that the new films examine the rebirth of fascism in the latter days of the generation that grew up during the Vietnam War. That's my crackpot theory, anyway.

 

Personally, I need both kinds of stories. It's good to watch stories where heroes you see yourself in triumph over villains that seem beyond defeat.

 

But I also need to hope we can transcend the "destructive conflict" that marks all the Star Wars stories, and prize knowledge and truth, and explore peacefully.

Samuel B. Lupowitz

Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.

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But I also need to hope we can transcend the "destructive conflict" that marks all the Star Wars stories, and prize knowledge and truth, and explore peacefully.

 

One of the possibilities I've seen floated about regarding 7/8/9 is that it's about the need for balance. While the Dark Side can't be running the galaxy, it doesn't work if the Jedi/good side are doing it either. It seems that Rey and Ren need each other to bring peace to the galaxy once and for all.

 

I guess we will find out in December.

 

:popcorn:

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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