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Single Keyboard Rig for covering 60's, 70's and 80's music


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Folks,

 

need your input as I keep spending money trying to figure out what works best for me. Current rig is an SKx and a Korg Grandstage 73 played out of a Motion Sound KP-500s. I play in a 9-piece band covering music from the 60's, 70's and 80's. I would like to get down to a single keyboard that can cover all this music. My needs are as follows:

 

1. Excellent sounding AP's/EP's and pads.

2. Strong organ section with all associated controls (Leslie, percussion, CV, etc.).

3. Usable synth sounds for covering the 80's music genre.

4. Flexible and multiple split points as this will be my only keyboard.

5. Decent key action (somewhere in the middle of weighted and synth action) - I'm not that sensitive to key action. I play very hard to begin with.

 

My thoughts are something in the Nord Stage 3 or Kurweil Forte 7 range.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Thanks in advance. Mike

 

 

My Rig: Stage Piano: Korg Grandstage 73 - Organ: Hammond SKx - Amps: Motion Sound KP-500s - Mixer: Yamaha MGU10
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I would have said Kurzweil pc3 (I think the organ is as about as good as the Kronos cx3 personally), but I have had reliability issues with mine. Those issues ironically scared me away from doing anymore 1-keyboard gigs unless they are free, short benefits or something.
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The Forte 7 would be my choice, I really like the sounds in my SP6 and the Forte has much more to offer. Having had a chance to play one, the sounds that are on the SP6 sound even better on the Forte. I assume it better DA converters or just he more memory, but its a great sounding board with a lot of power. I haven't played a Kronos.

Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12

Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell

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I have a Nord Stage 3 88HA and its the only keyboad I ever take to a gig. The action is exactly the compromise you mention. It took me a while, but I am now perfectly able to execute all of organ styles on this action, and it suits piano/ep superbly. The organ section is awesome, although I use a Ventilator sim (many think this unnecessary) and an Ocean Beach midi drawbar unit since I can't stand using "drawbuttons". Piano,ep,and synth are perfect for your uses. Great control interface and new sounds are continually being developed and over time, the keyboard has gotten even better. The only box it doesn't check is that is has fixed split points, but they can create 4 zones on the 88. Highly recommended!!
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I have both the Kronos and Stage 3.

 

A used Kronos 73 would be a lot cheaper the a Nord stage 3 88 and would have flexible splits and more sounds available. Some disadvantages of the Kronos would be the weight and learning curve is probably tougher versus the Nord. Also the organ sound and controls are better on the Nord, imo.

Yamaha Montage M6, Nord Stage 4 - 88, Hammond SK-Pro 73, Yamaha YC-73, Mainstage, Yamaha U1 Upright

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Folks,

 

need your input as I keep spending money trying to figure out what works best for me. Current rig is an SKx and a Korg Grandstage 73 played out of a Motion Sound KP-500s. I play in a 9-piece band covering music from the 60's, 70's and 80's. I would like to get down to a single keyboard that can cover all this music. My needs are as follows:

 

1. Excellent sounding AP's/EP's and pads.

2. Strong organ section with all associated controls (Leslie, percussion, CV, etc.).

3. Usable synth sounds for covering the 80's music genre.

4. Flexible and multiple split points as this will be my only keyboard.

5. Decent key action (somewhere in the middle of weighted and synth action) - I'm not that sensitive to key action. I play very hard to begin with.

 

My thoughts are something in the Nord Stage 3 or Kurweil Forte 7 range.

NS3 has a nice front panel immediacy (more in line with your current SKx and Grandstage), but fails your requirement #4, it does not have completely flexible split points (splits must occur between B/C or E/F), nor complete flexibility in terms of what sounds can be assigned where (i.e. a split/layered combination cannot include more than two sounds that are not some kind of organ or piano). Forte looks like your stronger choice. Organ is weaker, but you can use an assignable out to send it to a pedal like a Ventilator, which can help there. The biggest Forte limitation here is there are fewer front panel controls. So for example, if you're splitting an organ and a synth on the Nord, you have simultaneous front panel access to all your organ controls AND all your synth controls, whereas on the Kurzweil, you'll have to decide whether at any given time you want your 9 sliders to control drawbars or synth controls or some of each, and you'll have to set up the controller assignments you want instead of having them all already "there." The forthcoming PC4 has an advantage here in having 9 sliders AND 9 knobs that you can define, but the quality of the action will probably be a trade-off.

 

As for Kronos that has been mentioned, the Kronos LS would probably be the one to look at... I think the 73/88 actions will be pretty disappointing for organ, and the 61 will be small and disappointing for pianos. You may like that it will have most if not all the Grandstage sounds you're used to.

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I have had the NS3-HA88 for two years and just bought an NS3-Compact. The HA88 has been a single-board solution for me and I only added the Compact because I wanted a backup board that was lighter to carry to rehearsals and casual events. My band plays 70s/80s light rock/yacht rock so there are plenty of pianos, epianos, organs and synth sounds used with multiple parts and splits.

 

On a few programs, the fixed split points (between B/C and E/F) are irritating, but a welcome tradeoff for having lights that show where the split points are for each program. For probably 20% of the songs, I use multiple programs which are conveniently called up in Song Mode, where each Song can store up to 5 separate programs. At any one time, you can have up to 6 parts playing (two organs, two pianos, two synths) via splits and layers and bring parts/effects in and out with a control pedal, the mod wheel, or through after-touch.

 

I really like the action on both and am comfortable playing either board for piano, e-piano, organ and synth, but I'm not that sensitive about actions. The Compact has a quicker return for fast repeated notes and drawbars instead of buttons for the organ.

 

Regarding the synth sounds, I'm able to create just about whatever sounds I need, but you may want to take a look at the Nord website to see the sampled instruments they have available.

Nord Sample Library

 

Also, the Nord User Forum has a section where users post programs for songs that they developed, so you may want to check out what's there, since most post an mp3 sample so you can hear what it sounds like.

Nord User Forum - Stage 3 Programs

 

Finally, here is what I think is a very good tutorial series on the NS3 synth engine, you're going to want to roll-your-own at some point.

 

Nord Stage 3 HA88, Nord Stage 3 Compact, Casio CT-S1, Radial Key Largo, Westone AM Pro 30, Rolls PM55P, K&M 18880 + 18881, Bose S1 Pro, JBL 305p MKII, Zoom Q2n-4K

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When the Roland FA-06/08 came out I saw it as exactly the keyboard you describe. It does all that, for a medium high price, in a medium high quality. Its APs, EPs, organs, synths are all good, but definitely not as good as the top-end boards. (No C/V in the organ though.) I'm leaving this info here for someone searching for a bit cheaper solution to the same problem.

 

The same sound engine lives in the more expensive Roland Jupiter-80/50 synths, and those have an excellent synth action I hear, but the new Fantom lacks the organ sim, and possibly the Jupiter-X too.

Life is subtractive.
Genres: Jazz, funk, pop, Christian worship, BebHop
Wishlist: 80s-ish (synth)pop, symph pop, prog rock, fusion, musical theatre
Gear: NS2 + JUNO-G. KingKORG. SP6 at church.

 

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If you want a single board, you're going to have to decide between:

- A synthy/sprung action that's also tolerable for piano (an example of such an action is the Studiologic Numa Compact 2/2x)

- A hammer-action that's also tolerable for organ (such as the Kurzweil Forte 7/8 - not Forte SE, or the Nords with their high trigger point. The early hammer-action Nord Stage, 2 and older, are anecdotally better for organ than 2EX and newer)

 

I like hardware's suggestion of a soft rig. The Casio is a great controller, but not my first choice as a compromise "piano action you can organ on". Numa Compact would be great here, with its USB MIDI+audio and plenty of controllers.

 

I must admit, whenever the "which single keyboard" question comes up, I'm thinking:

- You really need hammer and sprung actions, so two boards

- You can typically get two boards for the cost/weight of a single hammer-action board, and setup time is minimally higher if you use one only as a controller.

But you have two nice boards already. So what are your "hot buttons": budget? weight? stage footprint? setup time? etc. Asking a different way: what's the problem with your existing rig?

 

Cheers, Mike

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When the Roland FA-06/08 came out I saw it as exactly the keyboard you describe. It does all that, for a medium high price, in a medium high quality. Its APs, EPs, organs, synths are all good, but definitely not as good as the top-end boards. (No C/V in the organ though.) I'm leaving this info here for someone searching for a bit cheaper solution to the same problem.

 

The same sound engine lives in the more expensive Roland Jupiter-80/50 synths.

The FA and the Jupiter80/50 share the same SuperNatural Synth engine (though the effects structures are different).

They share very few other sounds, though. The FA has only a small subset of the Jupiter SuperNatural Acoustic tones, while the FA does not have the XV-5080 sound set or SRX-based expansions of the FA.

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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If you do consider the Kronos, I think the LS would be the better choice because its acton is much more organ friendly. It's also much lighter. I use it as a single board rig. Plenty to complain about, but I'm not sure there's a better option.

Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio

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I know some don't like the keybed but I play in a band with similar requirements and the MODX7 covers things beautifully for me though more complex splits could be a challenge room-wise. I also have a Kronos LS and agree it is great but even it's a bit heavy for my liking.
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on the Kurzweil, you'll have to decide whether at any given time you want your 9 sliders to control drawbars or synth controls or some of each, and you'll have to set up the controller assignments you want instead of having them all already "there."

This is not completely accurate. On the Kurz there is a feature called zone mutes in which you can use any controller (usually a switch) to turn off the zone controls of one zone while simultaneously turning them on for another zone. Zone 1 could be the organ zone and the 9 sliders control the organ's 9 drawbars, Zone 2's 9 sliders could controller a synthesizers 9 functions (pitch, vcf, vfo, etc). By hitting a button (a switch) you can disable the organ's 9 sliders and simultaneously activate the 9 sliders for the synth. Retapping the button reverses the logic. The Kurz organ is not bad at all, actually it is fairly good, especially the overdrive. What isnt good are the C/V and the leslie. The Vent takes care of the leslie issue; hell I even use a Vent w/VB3. If you keep the C/V @ C2 or C1 you still get the movement without the exaggeration that C3 unfortunately provides. Since you mentioned piano and organ are needed I might suggest something like a PC3, PC3K7 or an Artis which have the semi-weighted keybed that allows you to play organ and piano. I don't think that the Artis will provide the zone mute functionality but the PC3/PCK/PC3A series do and the PC3A7 has an upgraded piano, so a PC3A7 w/ a Vent will provide you what you need at a cost far less than a Stage or Kronos. I purchased a PC3 for the exact reasons as you, all in one functionality, semi-weighted keybed to play organ, piano, synths, etc.. I've been using it since 2011, still rock solid. My two cents.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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Such keyboard doesn't exist. There will always be some level of compromise no matter what you get. Believe me, my bandleader has tried out just about every pro board out there in a similar quest only to be disappointed with either the action or sound of one instrument group. Lots of suggestions for the Kronos but there's boards with better pianos (Nord), better organs (Hammond), and better actions (Kawai).

'57 Hammond B-3, '60 Hammond A100, Leslie 251, Leslie 330, Leslie 770, Leslie 145, Hammond PR-40

Trek II UC-1A

Alesis QSR

 

 

 

 

 

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I played in a band that did 60s, 70s, and 80s. My rig was a Kronos 61 on top and a MIDI controller on bottom. Mine was an A70 but I'd recommend using your favorite 88 key weighted for piano stuff. Never a sound I couldn't get, plenty of splits/layers. Set it all up ahead of time and use setlist mode. The Kronos pianos are fine for live. You're playing through a PA, not doing a studio recording.

 

Note: for the 80s and some 70s synth stuff, if you want to really nail it, you'll need to roll your own sounds, but that's with any synth. Kronos has 3 analog engines to choose from and as I mentioned there has never been a sound I couldn't get. Also to expand on the choice of K61 on top and a weighted controller - it works out best to put the organ sounds on the Kronos so that you have easy access to the buttons and sliders for drawbars, V/C and Leslie, and you'll want that to be unweighted. Plus then it allows you to pair of your favorite action for piano.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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What dan said. And you don't have to think about programming the controller at all. It's just a slave action with all sounds coming from the Kronos.

 

Easy, fast, powerfull, no compromise action wise. But 2 boards. But one DI out, no keyboard mixing, etc.

 

 

Korg Kronos 2 61, Kronos 1 61, Dave Smith Mopho x4, 1954 Hammond C2, Wurlitzer 200A, Yamaha Motif 6, Casio CDP-100, Alesis Vortex Wireless, too much PA gear!
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And while not TECHNICALLY a single board solution, it has most of the advantages on one:

1) only one board to program and send to FOH

2) on a 2-tier stand, same footprint as a single board.

3) even though two cases to carry, each is likely lighter than a single 88-key do-it-all keyboard

4) since anything can act as the lower tier controller, you can leave keyboards in multiple locations and just transport the Kronos 61. I have a stand at home with a Triton pro set up, a stand at rehearsal space with an A70, and another stand and A70 that I gig with. I just take the Kronos from place to place. The gig stand and controller usually just stay in my car.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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An advantage of the Kronos over other "master" boards is its ability to act as a USB host. So if you want to use a Casio PXS1000, or a Yamaha p121, as a controller, you can do that without any additional hardware. (Kronos 61+Yamaha p121 weighs pretty much the same as Kronos 88 btw, and 61+Casio is only a couple of pounds more).

 

Cheers, Mike.

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Mike use two keyboards and be done with it. IF your the only keyboardist it makes sense....forget the gear think of the logistics. I have played in the same types of bands and would never use one board...never. You need two seperate keyboard actions for piano and organ. Forget semi-weighted actions also..go heavy or go home. Like someone said the footprint is the same.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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Mike use two keyboards and be done with it. IF your the only keyboardist it makes sense....forget the gear think of the logistics. I have played in the same types of bands and would never use one board...never. You need two seperate keyboard actions for piano and organ. Forget semi-weighted actions also..go heavy or go home. Like someone said the footprint is the same.

 

I used to completely agree with Outkaster. As I get older, my desire to schlep gear decreases accordingly. I've taken to covering many gigs with a NS3/88. Is it perfect? No. Does it do most things well enough to get by? Many times, yes. When needed, I use the Mojo for gigs that are organ heavy, and I've got several synths that I can pull from the bench when need be.

DISCLAIMER - professionally affiliated with Fulcrum Acoustic www.fulcrum-acoustic.com
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Mike use two keyboards and be done with it...

 

I used to completely agree with Outkaster. As I get older, my desire to schlep gear decreases accordingly. I've taken to covering many gigs with a NS3/88. Is it perfect? No. Does it do most things well enough to get by? Many times, yes...

I"ve been using a NS3/88 to cover everything from the 50"s to current, in multiple bands, with no issues. In a live setting it"s more than adequate, and simple to edit on the fly.

I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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If choosing one board for a rock/pop band context, I"d make it unweighted. I can easily 'fake' rock piano technique on unweighted keys, but can"t fake organ on weighted. That"s me, I know some people would say for them it"s the reverse.

 

I"ve done the top board midi"d to bottom board thing. What I like about it is gets the boards close together with all controls on top. But it accomplishes very little man n terms of reducing shlep.

 

I"m 2-boardin" these days but if I were the OP, NS3compact.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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I guess I am pretty hard core because I like options Adan but I hear you. Now due to the music I am playing I can't. Had I a horn section it would be different.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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