Crap Production - An Object Lesson

[BMD]

Exhibit A

 

If only I knew what I was doing

[Anderton]

Well, the tracks are good...and that's the hard part. You just need someone to get the mix right, and with your material, that's mostly about EQ.

[skypuppy123]

Being a producer for a group to assist in creativity is something that is lacking in today's music, imo. It takes a good ear and the ability to know when to say 'stop, that's a take!'.

 

George Martin, Tod Rundgren, Tom Dowd, etc, they all had a special gift - not sure if was just a lot of trial and error but they had that 'something'.

 

Listening to you're work , it really isn't that bad - Getting a second opinion to make alterations or adjustments to a mix is always a good thing.

[Anderton]

Agreed. Remember, John Lennon hated his voice. Good thing he had a second opinion

[KuruPrionz]

Exhibit A

 

If only I knew what I was doing

 

First of all, I would not bother if I didn't think you had something there, something good and worth improving. You can make your songs compelling, they have value.

 

I just want to address arrangement and production. Mixing is another animal, no amount of mixing will change what I feel is missing.

 

Tension and release.

 

I listened to fairly sizable parts of quite a few songs. As I jump from place to place I hear a sameness. I've done it myself many times. For me, it appears to arise from indulging a sense of comfort, the result is a sense that the song is "flatlining" and not creating that emotional roller coaster that engages one's attention. Do not be afraid to speed up and slow down, these tracks sound like they are holding steady when tempo changes might speak to human feelings more effectively (this is something I am tackling myself and it is not easy, I find it quite intimidating).

 

Many of your parts find a safe place riding 4 beats per measure and stay there. Go back and imagine how much "air", and how much tension you can create. Comfort is your enemy, poke it until it is not comfortable.

That's arrangement, as best as I can advise.

 

As to production, I hear sounds that might be much more effective if they were less full and big. Don't double things unless you are adding a flavor in a spot for emphasis. Don't bury clarity with plugins that add space (modulation effects). Leave room for your songs to grow and shrink, right now they are more or less the same "size" for too long.

 

One way of doing this is to create multiple instances of the same track and blend subtle amounts of the effects you want, automating to bring them in and out just where they belong instead of slapping a cool sounding plug in on a track and just letting it run.

 

Homework assignment: Listen to Midnight Rambler off Get Your Ya Ya's Out by The Rolling Stones. There is much inspiration there that is driving my determination to rule the tempo instead of letting the tempo rule my art.

 

I hope you find at least some of this helpful!!!!

 

 

[Anderton]

Exhibit A

 

If only I knew what I was doing

 

First of all, I would not bother if I didn't think you had something there, something good and worth improving. You can make your songs compelling, they have value.

 

I just want to address arrangement and production. Mixing is another animal, no amount of mixing will change what I feel is missing.

 

Actually, I think these days that mixing has become tangentially part of arranging. I often drop tracks out to let a song breathe more and go through changes. The Mute button is my friend

 

As to tempo changes, I couldn't agree more. I've recently perfected a technique of adding tempo changes to the final two-track mix, and started a thread about it. I realize adding changes after the fact isn't quite the same thing as a group of people playing together with a natural feel, but I'm not a group of people playing together...and besides, I use a lot of tempo-based processing. Regardless, the songs where I've added tempo changes have a certain "something" that definitely makes a difference. Makes we want to go back to all my old songs and add tempo changes to them

[KuruPrionz]

Mixing is another animal, no amount of mixing will change what I feel is missing.

 

Actually, I think these days that mixing has become tangentially part of arranging. I often drop tracks out to let a song breathe more and go through changes. The Mute button is my friend

 

Mixing is certainly part of both arrangement and production. When I listened to a chunk of one of the OP's songs and then jumped to another spot, I heard exactly the same parts played and mixed exactly the same way. As it stands now, you could change the mix but the part will still be the same if and when it reappears. One important way to bring tension and release into the story is to play the same part but differently. This approach is especially well suited to guitar parts, these songs are primarily guitar based. You can use the palm of your hand on the bridge to create a more muted, stacatto tone, you can pick close to the bridge or close to the neck, you can change the pickup, pick tightly or bang away with abandon, all in service of the song. These are all techniques I deploy at gigs when I am accompanying a singer. I am not hearing that here and I think it could make a positive difference.

 

We agree that mixing parts in and out of the composition can help tell the story.

I do something similar and advised that the OP consider it.

By now most DAWs should have some form of automation. I think it is important to learn how that works and to use it to best advantage.

When I am done mixing, the song mixes itself automatically.

Waveform has Automation tracks, you can create as many per audio track as you need. At the start you have a track with a single straight line, this can be assigned to Volume, Pan and to many aspects of the plugins on that track (if there are any). You add points by double clicking, you can drag those points up or down. There are tools to create curves instead of straight slopes on the lines. That is an Additive way to adjust the mix.

 

If I feel committed to an idea I may just split the tracks and delete the clips I want gone. That is Subtractive and fraught with peril, doing more than a couple Save As commands starts eating up storage space quickly. Sometimes it is expedient. There is a certain relief to commiting like that, you CAN'T go back. A decision is made and done, on to the next.

 

In some ways the computer has made it too easy to go back and forth on an idea. This is a reason some of us don't get as much DONE as we might.

[Anderton]

I like your posts, KuruPrionz

 

I've done a few covers of Mark's songs because I thought the songs were great, and wanted to add my own spin. "Black Market Daydreams" is a just plain wonderful song...

 

[video:youtube]

 

It got me back into recording after a multi-year hiatus. I liked it so much I wanted to record it. My "Neo-," "Simplicity," and "Joie de Vivre" albums all trace back to my sort of "re-awakening." That's how powerful music can be.

 

"Only After You" is really different. He did it as a kind of punkish thing, I heard it as a ballad. It's pretty much the only ballad I've ever done. I even changed a few words...I thought when he heard it, he might hate me forever, but he liked the version. My point was that a good song is a good song, and virtually indestructible

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KuruPrionz]

Thanks Craig, I like this forum and this thread.

It's refreshing to have constructive conversation.

Also nice to put gear discussions/quibbling in their proper place, to serve the music.

 

Your recordings are nice! I've listened once on the speakers in my laptop. Will fire up the studio monitors and listen again later, busy day!!!

You've broken up the "4 on the floor and pummel away" aspect of the links from the OP. You've also validated the material, these songs hold up nicely.

They are worth a fresh start and a fresh perspective.

 

I hope the OP is encouraged and inspired to try and expand their horizons. I look forward to hearing "new and improved."

[Anderton]

Mark has a lot of self-doubt. If he just got rid of it, he wouldn't have any reason for self-doubt

 

The irony...

[KuruPrionz]

Mark has a lot of self-doubt. If he just got rid of it, he wouldn't have any reason for self-doubt

 

The irony...

 

Seems doubtful. :- D

 

It is a catalyst for his songwriting as well.