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What won�t� you put up with anymore?


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Some of J. Dan"s threads got me thinking about a few things. This thread isn"t meant really to be humorous as these things are all things we go through. Being a musician is a pain in the ass sometimes and you put up with more than other professions, I"m sure of it. Are there any things you just won"t" put up with anymore? Things you can"t deal with, situations to steer clear of? It can be anything band or instrument related. I have a few to start:

 

 

Lazy or opinionated club owners that think they know what is better for your band then you do (yes they actually exist)

Back yard or private parties that end up hurting the band (drunk patrons, inadequate power or places to accommodate a performance)

Musicians that bully other members into quitting or display a lot of passive aggressiveness. These people also try to get players to draw sides sometimes.

Musicians that want to tell other members what to play when they can"t relay the information or can"t relay things in musical terms

 

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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I will add musicians showing up at gigs high or intoxicated! I've had people in the past miss the last two sets and found them sleeping in their vehicle.

I put up with it when I was younger. But now either they go or I do.

Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12

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Playing with drummers who are inconsistent with their feel or (heaven forbid) time. Not something you want in any musician, but I've spent enough time over the years fighting mediocre drummers that it's one thing I feel comfortable saying I've graduated from and won't tolerate anymore, no matter how informal/hobbyist the musical endeavor is.

 

To be clear, I'm not talking about the occasional flub or error in a fill or a part -- we all have our "special moments." I mean players who consistently can't keep it together, and make everyone else's job harder as a result.

Samuel B. Lupowitz

Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.

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. . . and those damn kids playing on my lawn!

 

On the one hand, getting older means suffering fools less gladly. On the other hand, my particular circumstances are that my playing opportunities have decreased significantly over the past several years. The corollary is that my standards for what gigs I will play have lowered significantly.

 

As long as I can get in and out quickly and play for an appreciative audience, I'll consider it.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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I can't think of anything in others I would refuse to "put up with," unless I am the BL. Some stuff makes gigs a drag, but that's the price of admission IMO.

 

If I am BL: don't show up drunk, don't drink sloppily on stage, do dress how the gig requires, do do your homework, and don't make me start a set wondering where you are. Also it's a pet peeve of mine, but unless this is your gig, don't livestream yourself during a gig, it's a band show, not the "drummer's gig."

 

If I'm sideman, I am done with wig-gigs. No more, ever. Except if the pay is great. Then many more. But only then. Or if the music is great or the women are hot and might flash. But only then, no other times. Well, maybe as a favor. But only those times.

 

 

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
www.joshweinstein.com

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I always explained what kind of music I played BEFORE I took a job. I made sure what I played was a good fit for their crowd or I passed.

 

One of the last gigs I had was an outdoor gig under a large gazebo in a Public Park. The people that were in folding chairs right in front of me grew up in the 1950's, yep, as old as dirt. So I started my show with oldies, and the people in front ate it up. But whoever the guy was that was in charge of the facility, turned on the OD sound system, which I didn't need or want, and it was causing feed back into MY system. He wasn't there to shut it off and it ruined my show. Then of course some of the younger people came up in the middle of my oldies show for the old folks and started yelling "Hey play something less than 50 years old" "Play something FAST". I was not a fun night. I never played there again.

 

Hecklers are my biggest gripe. I used a workstation, played sequences over the PA, but always played KB's, sang all the songs, and operated the harmonizer. On time I was playing a downtown Club and a couple of the employees that got off duty (college kids) started heckling me because I was using a sequencer in order to sound like a band. The crowd liked what I was doing and were not complaining. These employees thought they were being funny, I did not. When I took a break to hit the head, one of these hecklers was laughing it up as I came out of the rest room. I had enough, I grabbed this Kid, put him up against the wall and told him to STFU. I was trying to entertain the people and pay the bills and these kids thought they were funny.

 

That was the last time I ever played there too. Since then I made it clear to people that hired me about the technology I was using, but stressed that I played and sang every song. I was a substitute for a band. It they didn't want that, then don't hire me. Playing in bars sucks, college kits? Rude. Their parents are paying their bills but I pay mine.

 

It got old.

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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I always 'enjoy' people trying to talk to me while I"m TAKING A SOLO. One particularly aggregious customer repeated this for a couple weeks, to the point where I abruptly stopped playing, stopped the band, listened to her while the rest of the audience watched, then let the audience take care of her after we started playing again.
CA93, MODX8, YC88, K8.2
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Playing with drummers who are inconsistent with their feel or (heaven forbid) time. Not something you want in any musician, but I've spent enough time over the years fighting mediocre drummers that it's one thing I feel comfortable saying I've graduated from and won't tolerate anymore, no matter how informal/hobbyist the musical endeavor is.

 

To be clear, I'm not talking about the occasional flub or error in a fill or a part -- we all have our "special moments." I mean players who consistently can't keep it together, and make everyone else's job harder as a result.

+1 this is the first thing that came to mind and you expressed it so well!

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I grew up in a very diversified neighborhood lot of "street" attitude to deal with. Then got into music and that "street" combined with creativity taught me a lot especially when in and around the Jazz world. Then I changed gears and got into computer programming in the early days and it was the same attitude and we tell new hires you better be ready to show up to work with your asbestos underwear and rhino-thick skin. If they thought we were kidding they found out quick we weren't. So I see a that message about the asbestos underwear and rhino-thick skin applies to music too.

 

I bounced back and forth between music biz and computers until I retired a few years ago and things have mellow out some, but I still say it's good advice to have your asbestos underwear and rhino-thick skin to survive and not let the egos and business eat you alive.

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Unprofessionalism on stage is a deal killer for me.

 

I played a couple gigs with a band leader who had a horn band. The horn players were college kids who sounded like they had never played a gig. Cracked notes, no cohesion, the whole bit. He also had a bass player who would screw up every time in the same place in What is Hip - just before the organ solo.

 

This was bad enough. What made it unbearable was that he stopped the band in the middle of a song to berate the horns, before starting again. I stopped taking his phone calls after that.

Moe

---

 

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Unlike some/most of you, I'm not a pro musician...however I do try to act like one as best I can, and prefer the rest of the band do so as well.

 

After 7 years of "success" (small s, playing bars and clubs!) with one band, it would be hard to go back to square one with another band, because here are my requirements:

 

- everyone learns songs for practice (just lost 75% of bands, boom)

- everyone communicates in a timely manner

- willing to keep volume down for certain gigs and for practices

- I have in-ears, I intend to use them, though I can supply a speaker if monitors aren't good enough for non-iem users to hear me

- someone has to be dedicated to booking the band

- nobody spazzes out with anger when things get challenging (old bass player used to rage when sound issues arose, not going to have someone vent their anger on me over minor things)

- everyone has to be willing to compromise somewhat. Song choices, venues, schedules, whatever. Nothing will be perfect, we aren't rock stars with minions to get us all we desire

- Nobody get overly nitpicky about patches and parts, ESPECIALLY when that part is not being played by you. I'm not going to sit there and rag on the drummer for changing a fill slightly, you don't tell me my patch needs more reverb etc. That said, constructive criticism is fine as long as it isn't nagging and bullying.

- If you can't get a song right in a practice or two, move on and learn 5 others. Not every band can pull off every song.

 

Edit: read above me about unprofessionalism on stage. Forgot that one! That can range from sitting there discussing which song to do (not good) up to dropping f-bombs left and right (really not good), which one guy did at our one and only gig years ago

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Plus one on just about everything said here. I'll add musicians who don't want to rehearse, as well as those who think rehearsals are for learning one's individual parts. (No, that's called homework. Rehearsals are for integrating the parts together and working out intros, endings, arrangements, and song transitions.) Sadly, my original and current hometown of Burlington, Vermont seems to have more than its share of lazy people. A few months ago I jammed with a rather well-known local drummer. He was great. But I was asked to bring in ideas for songs I want to cover, and I did. The bass player, a friend of his, looked at the Steely Dan, '80s synth pop, and a few other things on my list, and said, "Nothing too arrangement-heavy. I don't want to have to rehearse a lot." I did not contact them about getting together again.

Stephen Fortner

Principal, Fortner Media

Former Editor in Chief, Keyboard Magazine

Digital Piano Consultant, Piano Buyer Magazine

 

Industry affiliations: Antares, Arturia, Giles Communications, MS Media, Polyverse

 

 

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Mine is simple:

 

Attitude

Arrogance

 

There's a guitar player in town.. He is absolutely incredible.. He can play anything. He is slowly being blackballed from all bands. He's the best and he will let you know it..all day, everyday.

Your turm for a solo? You will get a couple measures in, and then he takes over "look at meeeee!"

 

 

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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Playing with drummers who are inconsistent with their feel or (heaven forbid) time. Not something you want in any musician, but I've spent enough time over the years fighting mediocre drummers that it's one thing I feel comfortable saying I've graduated from and won't tolerate anymore, no matter how informal/hobbyist the musical endeavor is.

 

To be clear, I'm not talking about the occasional flub or error in a fill or a part -- we all have our "special moments." I mean players who consistently can't keep it together, and make everyone else's job harder as a result.

+1 this is the first thing that came to mind and you expressed it so well!

 

I'm running into that in my current band.

 

We can never get comfortable because we never know when he'll mess up. Some times he plays almost good. Other times he makes it miserable. The last couple times we played "Bargain" the intro was a total train wreck. We play a mild funk version of "After Midnight", and he'll screw up the beat 20% of the time, even though we play it at every gig.

 

We actually rehearsed "Black Magic Woman" for a couple hours with the guy, and he NEVER got it.

 

A couple weeks ago he dragged so badly on the slow songs, I thought they were going to stop.

 

Bad Company's "Feel Like Making Love" if he doesn't count out loud with a strong high-hat, he'll come back in wrong every time.

 

He CAN play. After all, he nails the drum fill coming out of the organ solo in "Born To Be Wild"

 

He is a good guy, a good friend, and he works hard booking the band. But, he concentrates on the business end of things when he should be concentrating on the music.

 

There's a good chance we'll be making a change around the first of the year.

"In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome.

So God helped him and created woman.

 

Now everybody's got the blues."

 

Willie Dixon

 

 

 

 

 

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I won't put up with playing the gig unless my bowl of M&Ms backstage has all of the brown ones removed.

 

There will be no brown M&M"s in the backstage area, upon pain of forfeiture of the show, with full compensation.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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First thing I thought of:

 

When I lived in LA, what I wouldn"t tolerate anymore...

 

The Queen Mary.

 

(You have to be there. Often bands had to load in through a single tiny service elevator, shared with food staff, that would never be enlarged for historical preservation excuses).

 

homey don"t do the Queen.

Barry

 

Home: Steinway L, Montage 8

 

Gigs: Yamaha CP88, Crumar Mojo 61, A&H SQ5 mixer, ME1 IEM, MiPro 909 IEMs

 

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I just joined another band. Great set of guys; probably the first band I've played in where there are 5 "normal" people; i.e. no drug/alcohol/drunk friends/personal issues. 5 normal people; a first for me, there is always someone in every band that has some issue; this band so far doesn't. They all come prepared to practice, musically like minded; act professional, yada yada. So I don't think I can put up with going back to bands where there are attitudes, loud guitar players, all of that stuff. just getting to old to deal with it.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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Your turn for a solo? You will get a couple measures in, and then he takes over "look at meeeee!"

 

Oh, man. That is my absolute number 1 no-no. I played with a guitar player who wouldn't even wait for 2 bars. ANY space in a solo and he would jump all over it and start shredding. It was awful. Sign of an immature player.

 

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

-Mark Twain

 

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If I had to abstract them, I absolutely will not put up with

 

- manipulators or deceivers. #1 pet peeve. Applies not just to musicians.

- alpha personalities. These people cannot be reasoned with.

- incompetent musicians. Drummers who can't, singers who can't, etc

- I'm done "holding hands"

- immature guitar players, and there are too many of them.

- alcohol or narcotic use that interferes with the show.

- SJWs who use the band as a soapbox or to browbeat band members into their political mindset. People come to play/hear live music to forget about life for a while.

 

I'm not shy about calling these people out either.

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I have no patience for people (drunk adults. curious children, oblivious passers-by) playing the gear without asking us. This has happened increasingly frequently. I used to be a little more meek about it, not to upset clients or bandleaders, but not anymore. Unless I know you are a respectful, professional keyboardist, or you have ASKED me to try the gear. you get a death stare and "no" in multiple languages.

 

I also will not put up with extended feedback in soundchecks. I will leave and have someone text me once they've tuned the system. My ears don't need to suffer through a technician's inefficiency or lack of ability.

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First thing I thought of:

 

When I lived in LA, what I wouldn"t tolerate anymore...

 

The Queen Mary.

 

(You have to be there. Often bands had to load in through a single tiny service elevator, shared with food staff, that would never be enlarged for historical preservation excuses).

 

homey don"t do the Queen.

 

Well... I just had to look this one up :laugh: Is this it? Does look rather funky...

 

[video:youtube]

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The "sit in" guest transposing my keyboard and not putting it back in key afterwards.

 

The "sit in" guest who doesn't understand any controls on my keyboard and requires an extensive training session on how to operate it.

 

The "sit in" guest who knows how to change patches and then has to audition 500+ presets to nail "the sound" before the tune can be counted in.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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My list is a little different. Well, same as others in that I won't put up with musicians who get so drunk they can't play. But I'm an old weekend warrior. I don't play for a living, although I play with other musos who play for a living. I won't drive 2 hours to get to a gig. I won't even drive an hour unless the money or the hang is good. And I won't do 4 sets from 9:00 pm to 1:00 am (or 1:30 or 2:00), especially if it's far away or involves crossing a bridge in the SF Bay Area. Life is too short and at this stage I want to enjoy playing music, not stressing.
These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise.
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Wow, I feel pretty lucky. I have only been in two bands. No issues with personalities, drugs or alcohol. All great guys and competant musicians.

 

BUT I CAN'T STAND LOUD !!!!!!!!! And it comes from the drummer and the guitar player. At this point in my life a loud drummer or electric guitar is like being hit in the head. I can't take it. I guess I feel lucky to be able to only write this much.

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The comments about schlepping onto the Queen Mary cause me to shudder about an upcoming gig.

 

We're playing on a Casino boat sailing out of Port Canaveral, FL. We have to be there NLT 4 PM (It's a Friday, and I normally work until 5:30). PA will be supplied, but that's it. We MUST be able to bring our gear on and off in one trip a piece. OK, I can, with the help of several bungee cords holding everything on the dolly. The drummer, well it normally takes him 5 trips for his gear. Bass player should have no issues, because he won't be schlepping the PA. Guitar player, no problem.

 

We get set up, then play while the boat is sailing out into international waters, where they can turn on the machines. We then quit for several hours, and start playing when they turn the machines off on the trip back in.

 

8-10 hours for probably 2 sets

 

"In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome.

So God helped him and created woman.

 

Now everybody's got the blues."

 

Willie Dixon

 

 

 

 

 

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I have no patience for people (drunk adults. curious children, oblivious passers-by) playing the gear without asking us. This has happened increasingly frequently. I used to be a little more meek about it, not to upset clients or bandleaders, but not anymore. Unless I know you are a respectful, professional keyboardist, or you have ASKED me to try the gear. you get a death stare and "no" in multiple languages.
Yeah, that is completely unacceptable. I've seen murder in the eyes of my guitarist on the more than one occasion when people have just moved his amp without talking to him first. Once, we were chatting at the bar while the other band was setting up in front of our backlined gear, and the other band's keyboard player must have decided he needed more room, because we heard the telltale sound of a spring reverb being jostled. I've never seen my bandmate move so fast.

 

Touching other people's equipment without permission is a breach of decorum, full stop. It boggles my mind that people would think it's okay to play your gear.

 

Tangent, but that reminds me of the time during the Monday night piano bar gig that I had one summer in high school that a drunk woman sat down next to me on the piano bench and started plunking out notes. I was 17 and didn't know what to do about that. There were only two or three other people in the bar. A few minutes before, the same woman was shouting at me "PLAY SOMETHING WE KNOW" in the middle of a song.

 

I was playing "Brick" by Ben Folds Five. I guess she hadn't turned on the radio anytime between 1997 and 2004.

 

Samuel B. Lupowitz

Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.

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