Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

Yamaha Modx malfunctions at gig


Recommended Posts

I'm reminded again why I bring two keyboards to gigs. My new modx7, which I got to replace a malfunctioning PC361, started acting up last night. Kind of ruined my night, I limped though four sets but it wasn't enjoyable.

 

Here's what it is doing: Randomly, it changed patches to a particular one. Always back to that one. I would see a red "dot" or "ping" on the screen when this would happen; like it received a patch change or it thought the screen was being pressed (?). It seemed to mostly do this when I *wasn't* playing (I'd look up and it would be back on the same patch again), but several times it changed while I was playing--I couldn't use it for songs where the parts were prominent and different (say a piano, since the patch it kept changing to was a synth....)

 

I am going to set it up shortly to see if I can reproduce the issue. Going to look for anything out of the ordinary (sequencer on, anything.....)

 

I leave the thing on "live set" mode, so because it kept going back to one patch from the "grid" of that screen, my best guess is that the touch screen is registering a touch at that location. I most certainly was NOT hitting it, and nothing was touching anything on the keyboard at the times it was happening. There was no midi or usb connections. The only non-audio connection was a sustain pedal, and I took it out after the first set just in case. I rebooted the modx twice, didn't help. If it wasn't the touch screen screwing up, it almost seemed like something was sending patch changes. Timing was random...I could make it through a whole song at times, on others it would change multiple times during a song.

 

Anyway, really, really, really tired of gear ****ing up on me....I baby my stuff so this is just really disheartening.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Aaaaaannnnd....ten minutes of trying to reproduce it (which was far longer than I could go at the gig without it happening) and I can get it to do it. In other words, it works fine.

 

 

argh. I may never know what caused this....if it wasn't the screen responding to a phantom touch I really have no clue at all.

 

It's possible I didn't reboot *after* removing the sustain pedal though. So if that pedal was the issue, it could have remained an issue until this morning I suppose. Really clawing for anything right now.

 

Sucks because if I can't find the reason I'm going to have to return it...can't risk another gig like last night. My electro can get me through a lot of songs to finish a gig but not our newer more synth-driven stuff. Bottom line, I paid a lot for this thing and this really pisses me off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a good thing to check. I only have a page and a half on my live sets currently, and the one in question is 3rd row, 2nd from left on the first page....my second page doesn't have a patch there.

 

That would help tell me if it's location-related or related to that patch. The patch is "universal comp" for what it might matter...if that is like patch 000 or something it would be suggestive.

 

Edit: checked to rule that out, it's responds to patch change 116 in bank lsb3....

 

Currently can't get it to mess up though!

 

I don't get what the red "pings" were though. They definitely represented whatever "signal" was causing it. I believe I did see them while I was once on the performance page for a patch, but they didn't change the patch that time. Sounds weird, not sure how to explain it better. There are no red dots or whatever now when I'm pressing the screen. My impression is that they were some kind of incoming signal, as wacky as that sounds. But again, no usb or midi was connected.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(Side note: I played a Hammond on a boat one night. Worst gig ever. Really bad generator power.)

 

Your not being able to reproduce the problem at home seems to point back to the venue or has this happened at other locations? They might have AC power issues.

 

On another side note, has anybody else here ever 'looked' at AC power on a scope?

I"ve seen some crazy stuff riding on AC current that makes me wonder about some gear being susceptible.

 

Good luck with the MODX. I gas badly for one so watching this carefully.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like fluctuating power. Have you used the ModX in this venue before with no trouble? Some instruments are more touchy about unsteady power than others. Back in the dark ages I had a Korg Polysix that would revert to patch 1 if the power was funky. Started using a voltage regulator and all was well. Good luck.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can add something about low voltage power with the modx.

 

We play a gig every year, with absolutely terrible voltage levels! The voltage varies between 89 and 95 volts, depending on how hard the subs are being pushed, and if the venue is using their AC! :o

 

This year was the first with the new modx8. I saw no effects visually, however, when the voltage dipped (for example when the bass and bass drum were played heavily, exactly together) the sound on the modx would reduce to a low distorted sound - to - dropping out altogether. I didn't see any unexpected sound changes or any ill effects from the screen or lights.

 

As a comparison, in these past gigs with different gear:

 

moxf6 - no problems

Korg Kronos - Powered off at random times (which really sucked, as it took over 2 min to boot up!)

Nord Stage - rebooted once, but mostly stayed normal.

 

This year was the last straw for me, though. I am going to absolutely insist on a generator (outdoors gig) for next year!

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Come to think of it, this was the same place where my Kurzweil once went out of tune on me...that keyboard had a number of problems over the years and I didn't even make the connection until all these posts about power.

 

As far as default patch, I'll have to wait until I set it up again to see what it comes up with. edit: just played six hours on it (2 at home, 4 at practice), not one problem.

 

This was an outdoor gig, and our humidity is still pretty high...but operation was normal with the touchscreen (other than this issue, if it was the touchscreen). I can't explain those red flashes, they almost looked like those little highlights that people put on videos when they click the mouse...little red circles.

 

We run all our power from the main rack, but it's not a super-expensive one that would level out power (regulator?). It's a furman rack unit, I'm guessing under 100 bucks (next time we gig I'll see what it is).

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So if this was due to bad power....any suggestions on remedies? Would a computer UPS help with keyboards (assuming the wattage can be handled?) Edit: just some initial reading on UPSes suggests the normal cheaper ones wouldn't help at all, they only use the battery when the power goes out (until then, it just passes the power along).

 

Wonder if I could go 3-4 sets worth on a UPS with two keyboards pulling from the battery :D

 

We have a couple very handy folks (one an AC repair guy) in the band, so I'll start bringing a meter to test power at these gigs and have them "train me up" :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keyboards don't normally draw a lot of power. (power amps are another matter). So, a relatively small UPS can operate a pair of boards easily. Some of the more expensive UPS units also can maintain the output when incoming power is low but not gone. I've used several different APC UPS to run my gear, especially at sites where I didn't know if power was stable or not.

 

I have a plug in AC voltmeter (made for RV use) right on the power strip of my rig at church. At one time, there was a lack of ground problem that meant one side of the AC was a lot lower than 110 volt and the other side was a lot higher. Lets me know before I power up the boards, and didn't cost all that much.

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, thanks...yep, my bass player (who repairs AC) suggested a line-interactive UPS (one of the ones with Automatic Voltage regulation).

 

Added bonus is avoiding the "oops, tripped on the main power cord" shut-off of your gear, though my stuff does boot quickly.

 

My two keyboards combined look to draw about 40W, and I don't really care about battery time. I found a couple on amazon that run around 65 bucks, handle 400 watts and are compact...can always use one for the computers at home if it doesn't help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I doubt it's the power. It runs on DC provided by a switching regulated (iirc) power supply so the voltage variations are actually sorted pre-DC out. I had random patch issues as well with mine and that along with the crappy keybed caused me to ditch it a while back.

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I doubt it's the power. It runs on DC provided by a switching regulated (iirc) power supply so the voltage variations are actually sorted pre-DC out. I had random patch issues as well with mine and that along with the crappy keybed caused me to ditch it a while back.

 

Ah, I hate to hear that. I'm ok with the keybed (not my favorite but I love the weight) but I really don't like to hear about someone else having patch issues. Were they like this, randomly changing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll throw in a wild card based on experience I have had using touch screens generally. Is it possible that a strobing stage light, direct sunlight let in by a flapping tarp or similar is randomly hitting the touch screen?

 

Oily residue from fingers can compound the effect of random bright light on the screen.

A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, I'm trying to think of any card, wild or tame :)

 

In this case, it was an evening gig, not really hot but certainly not cool...no tarp overhead but I did have my fan blowing on me from the back...can't really imagine that would cause it. Nothing else was near the screen or the buttons...one of the first things I thought of was something sitting on a button.

 

I keep coming back to those red flashes, which seemed to indicate the incoming whatever-it-was...or just were part of the same glitch.

 

We did have wireless stuff going on with our digital board, and this was the first gig where we had a router set up with an ipad controlling it. A band friend who runs sound was out front tweaking the mix...is there any way possibly that his actions on the ipad would have sent a signal to the modx that it interpreted as going to that patch? He was using the QSC touchmix app, certainly not a yamaha app of any sort, so this seems far-fetched....but it did occur to me, since it's the first time we've done that, and it's the first time this has happened....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only IPad mixing interference I"ve heard about is 2.4ghz router interfered by wireless guitar signal. I haven"t heard of a router or IPad interfering with keyboard patching or keyboard anything. I doubt it was the case here, but never say never.

 

Unless there was a midi program on that IPad? But even then, it wasn"t actually connected to the keyboard, correct?

Barry

 

Home: Steinway L, Montage 8

 

Gigs: Yamaha CP88, Crumar Mojo 61, A&H SQ5 mixer, ME1 IEM, MiPro 909 IEMs

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately I haven't had this one very long. I'm probably going to return it if I still can...just can't risk whatever this was happening again. It took a major bite out of the gig, fortunately it was a low-pressure fun gig (though not so much for me I can tell you....)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a new MODX7 owner, I would really appreciate it if you would send a note to Yamaha support about it to see what they say. They may be able to determine something between the red flashes and the return to the same Performance in your Live Set. It would be nice to know if the problem is either unique to your unit or common for all MODX7s or MODXs in general.

 

Also, I think power may still be the culprit. I could be wrong, but I thought that all electronic devices had a DC converter for the circuit boards. Doesn't matter if the conversion is done via a wall wart or built-in power supply, so fluctuations would still have an impact if they met a certain threshold. Also, it could be that the combination of the AC/DC converter and the MODX7 were not as fault tolerant as your other devices were in handling any power issues you may have experienced at the venue .

 

On a separate note, it sure would be nice if there was a Yamaha version of Mike Martin that frequents this forum.

Nord Stage 3 HA88, Nord Stage 3 Compact, Casio CT-S1, Radial Key Largo, Westone AM Pro 30, Rolls PM55P, K&M 18880 + 18881, Bose S1 Pro, JBL 305p MKII, Zoom Q2n-4K

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I will do that. I did pick up a voltage regulating UPS, wasn't that costly or heavy and basically it shouldn't hurt anything.

 

The programmer in me REALLY wants to try to reproduce this, but not sure I'm seeing myself setting up a keyboard out by the bar on a random night :)

 

I did post on the yamaha forum, haven't had much responses there just yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I keep coming back to those red flashes, which seemed to indicate the incoming whatever-it-was...or just were part of the same glitch.

 

Random thought: A red dot to me means "record", and I notice it does have some automatic recording function that can be triggered by level.

 

But it doesn't sound like it was triggered by high levels, and I don't know why starting to record would affect the current patch....

 

Definitely curious what support says if you ask them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I will do that. I did pick up a voltage regulating UPS, wasn't that costly or heavy and basically it shouldn't hurt anything.

 

The programmer in me REALLY wants to try to reproduce this, but not sure I'm seeing myself setting up a keyboard out by the bar on a random night :)

 

I did post on the yamaha forum, haven't had much responses there just yet.

Thanks, Stokely, I appreciate it! I've been watching the Yamaha forum too. I haven't posted there yet, but I have an account from when I was updating the firmware in my DX7-IIFD and looking for information.

 

Nord Stage 3 HA88, Nord Stage 3 Compact, Casio CT-S1, Radial Key Largo, Westone AM Pro 30, Rolls PM55P, K&M 18880 + 18881, Bose S1 Pro, JBL 305p MKII, Zoom Q2n-4K

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You just discovered the joy of a "brownout" - when the AC voltage dips below nominal. Very few modern synths can tolerate a brownout. My Moog Voyager survived a brownout from a bad extension cord and merrily kept going, while my Andromeda shut down and my mixer was showing weird levels on the meters. Moog Music later told me the Voyager was designed to operate down to 90VAC, and mine was the first actual case they heard about.

 

Conditioners only filter out noise. Only a voltage regulator will protect against brownouts. The downside is they can draw more current to make up the loss of voltage, so only put the sensitive stuff - not powered speakers or power amps - on the regulator to minimize current draw.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...