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New Roland Fantom


gino

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Well, watching the Bonner Music video actually turns me away from this keyboard. The fact that you can"t changes tones (and their corresponding FX) and have that change saved within a scene WITHOUT changing the original sound forever ( or having to save a slightly tweaked version of the same sound) really disappoints me. That seems like something the industry has had out there for years now with the Kronos and why a $3500-$4000 brand new board would not have that capability is beyond me.

 

Ok so just to make sure I'm understanding this - you can't alter an actual tone and save it as a new one? Not that I do that much but it seems a pretty big shortcoming although maybe that's what the new Jupiter is for..

 

Available offset parameters saved in a scene are on page 12&13 of the parameter guide. Editing anything beyond those requires saving as a new tone.

 

:thu:

 

Yes, even my originals Fantom X6 had this "offset"

 

Anytime you changed a tone and wanted to save it, it saved as a new tone under "user". The original was kept as is. Same way on the Fantom G, and then the current FA series, and now the new Fantom inside the scenes.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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If you can't edit the tone right inside the scene down to the oscillator level (instead of just doing offset), than it doesn't really count in my book as not having different modes.

Since obviously tones have to be saved separately, I'm also curious how many user slots are there for own tones. There are 3500 or so preset tones, but how big is the user area?

 

That was just 1 example. You can edit a tones from scene level. When you press one of the 4 parameters keys, osc/filter/eg/efx, it drops you right into the edit menu for the selected zone. If I'm creating a combi and I want to edit a single tone I need to remember the patch name & location, enter program mode, find the patch and parameter, make adjustments then save & exit back into combi.

 

I think I read 512 user tones. I could be wrong about that.

 

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If that is the way how it really works on the new Fantom, then the statement about not having modes, as they say on their official web page is simply not true and very misleading IMO!

The implementation is different from Yamaha's, but in both cases, they have eliminated the typical dichotomy between single-sound and multiple-sound modes while playing the keyboard... you are always in a multi-sound capable Performance on the Yamaha, or a multi-sound capable Scene on the Roland, even if you're only playing one sound. (This is also similar to the Casio PX-5S where you're always in a multi-sound capable Stage Setting even when playing only a single sound.) Editing is a bit different though. If you make a change to a sound in the Yamaha, you save those changes within that Performance, and if you ever want to re-use that sound you just edited, you invoke a Part from one Performance while you're in another Performance. With Roland, it looks like you save those changes into a library of Tones, and if you ever want to re-use that sound you just edited, you invoke that Tone while editing a Zone within a Scene. I'm not sure which is less complicated. ;-)

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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If you can't edit the tone right inside the scene down to the oscillator level (instead of just doing offset), than it doesn't really count in my book as not having different modes.

Since obviously tones have to be saved separately, I'm also curious how many user slots are there for own tones. There are 3500 or so preset tones, but how big is the user area?

 

That was just 1 example. You can edit a tones from scene level. When you press one of the 4 parameters keys, osc/filter/eg/efx, it drops you right into the edit menu for the selected zone. If I'm creating a combi and I want to edit a single tone I need to remember the patch name & location, enter program mode, find the patch and parameter, make adjustments then save & exit back into combi.

 

I think I read 512 user tones. I could be wrong about that.

 

I had a look on my Fantom 6, and user tones appear to go up around the 2000 mark, think people are getting mixed up with the "Scenes" which there are less off, but PLENTY of space to save your own tones.

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I had a look on my Fantom 6, and user tones appear to go up around the 2000 mark, think people are getting mixed up with the "Scenes" which there are less off, but PLENTY of space to save your own tones.

 

 

IIRC, my Jupiter-50 is structured similarly; somewhere in the vicinity of 2000 preset tones, and 1000+ slots for user tones. And like the Fantom, Tones edited beyond the 'offset' parameters must be saved separately. Proves the point tha the Fantom isn't truly a single mode instrument, like the Montage/MODX. Though it's layout/work flow appear much more straightforward.

 

So a Fantom Scene is like a JP-50/80 Registration, and Parts and Tones are essentially the same. However the Fantom offers up to 4 partials to each Tone and 16 Tones per Scene. I amost see it as a 2019 love child between a JP-80 and FA-07, with a few genetic tweaks. And the touchscreen, expanded functions and much improved front panel layout are a welcome sight (especially after learning that the JP-50 iOS editor existed only briefly). The Jupiter 50's front panel interface/display has always felt unwieldy to me. Some here have criticized the Fantom as having PCM content, vs. the SN engine of the JP-50/80. Not so sure that that's warranted, as I hear plenty of behavior modeling happening in the various demo vids. The synthesis going on in the Fantom appears to be a behavior-modeled hybrid of PCM and VA; seems the natural progression forward from SN. I'll be able to tell more once I sit down at one.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Some here have criticized the Fantom as having PCM content, vs. the SN engine of the JP-50/80. Not so sure that that's warranted, as I hear plenty of behavior modeling happening in the various demo vids. The synthesis going on in the Fantom appears to be a behavior-modeled hybrid of PCM and VA; seems the natural progression forward from SN. .

I believe Fantom includes the same SuperNatural SYNTH capabilities as the JP-50/80 (not counting the effects), and what people are complaining about is the lack of the JP50/80's SuperNatural ACOUSTIC tones on the Fantom, giving you instead mostly the XV-5080 and AX-Edge PCM sounds for its acoustic instruments (not counting the V-Piano).

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Some here have criticized the Fantom as having PCM content, vs. the SN engine of the JP-50/80. Not so sure that that's warranted, as I hear plenty of behavior modeling happening in the various demo vids. The synthesis going on in the Fantom appears to be a behavior-modeled hybrid of PCM and VA; seems the natural progression forward from SN. .

I believe Fantom includes the same SuperNatural SYNTH capabilities as the JP-50/80 (not counting the effects), and what people are complaining about is the lack of the JP50/80's SuperNatural ACOUSTIC tones on the Fantom, giving you instead mostly the XV-5080 and AX-Edge PCM sounds for its acoustic instruments (not counting the V-Piano).

I downloaded the Fantom SoundList document. Under Preset Tones, there are three categories: ZEN-Core, CMN and V-Piano; 2,720, 868 and 17 tones respectively. There is also a set of Drum Kit Tones, with 17 appearing to be ZEN-Core and 74 listed as CMN; listed after that is a Preset Drum Instrument list, with 935 'instruments' (Basic, PCM samples?).

Under the ZEN-Core Tones, the acoustic instrument coverage is as comprehensive as that on the JP50/80. Since ZEN-Core is described as having PCM samples/VA with behavior modeling, I think it's the next step of evolution after SuperNatural, possibly an enhanced SN? I suspect CNM is older PCM technology, with less behavior modeling (if any); the sounds on that list appear to be derived from the JV/XV series of instruments. I'm guessing that programmers are going to have a lot of fun with this machine.

 

This is all academic until I'm able to play one of the new Fantoms. After all, it's the hands-on connection and sound/feel of an instrument that sell it for me. May be awhile, since the nearest one is at least one and a half hours away. I'm curious if a Fantom 7 could be a worthy replacement for my JP50. It would definitely replace a couple of other instruments in my somewhat overloaded stable. We've been on a downsizing kick this past year, and the Fantom might just be part of a leaner, more focused set of rigs.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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It'll be replacing my Korg Kronos, and that's a bold move indeed.

 

financial consideration ? Money is a most common motivator for a decision

 

I see my 8 yr old Kronos and Fantom co-exisitng in my home studio

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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Defintely money is a factor, also weight and making space in my home space. Seems more like a lateral move to me although some could argue that point, but this works fine for my situation.

 

 

definitely, the purchase has to make sense for your requirements and plans

 

I have years of song work exclusive to Kronos and enjoy the board as if it were 2011.

 

I also see the ' end result ' in terms of composition to be dramatically different between the 2 boards.

 

And when the strengths are combined, I see a potential monster hybrid, if that makes sense. And I have combined Roland + Korg for 20 years.

 

Thats my take. And I don't gig.

 

 

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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I downloaded the Fantom SoundList document. Under Preset Tones, there are three categories: ZEN-Core, CMN and V-Piano; 2,720, 868 and 17 tones respectively.

I haven't been able to figure out the significance of calling that bank CMN instead of Bank F. Specs say there are only two sound generating engines... ZEN-Core and V-Piano. According to a gearslutz post, bank B and bank CMN consist entirely of the sounds from the AX-Edge, and I am unclear about any particular distinction between the first 459 AX-Edge sounds (comprising Bank B), and the rest of the AX-Edge sounds (comprising bank CMN).

 

(The AX-Edge itself lists "Synth-EX" as its sound generator, and who knows what the relationship is between that and ZEN-core... a subset? an earlier version? the same thing with a different name? But it's kind of academic anyway.)

 

Under the ZEN-Core Tones, the acoustic instrument coverage is as comprehensive as that on the JP50/80.
The ZEN-Core banks A through E (i.e. not including the CMN bank discussed above) seem to have these sounds, again based on a gearslurz post:

Bank A = new sounds unique to the Fantom

Bank B = AX-Edge sounds, as discussed above

Bank C = SuperNatural Synth (from the Legends expansion for the Integra 7)

Bank D = SuperNatural Synth (stock presets from Integra 7 and FA)

Bank E = XV-5080 sound set

 

Since ZEN-Core is described as having PCM samples/VA with behavior modeling

Hmmm... I haven't seen any specific reference to behavior modeling. I mean, yes, that is part of the SuperNatural VA synth (i.e. it models the behavior of an analog synth), so it would be there in that respect, but I haven't seen anything that implies behavior modeling in its acoustic instrument sounds. FWIW, here's how ZEN-Core is described in the manual:

 

What is the ZEN-Core engine?

This is a new synthesizer sound engine that was developed using cutting edge technology based on VA technology developed for the V-Synth. It features analog-like response speed and high resolution, allowing you to create a wide range of high-quality sounds. It is also fused with the PCM sound engine developed by Roland for many years, supporting even more sophisticated sound design.

 

It will be interesting to see if some more V-Synth finds its way into the Fantom (i.e. variphrase, and the D50 and Vocal Designer expansions).

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Hi Greg,

I gig several times a month & lugging a lighter flagship board appeals to me, the others didn't rock my world. For home use, church & piano gigs I have the RD-2000. But I agree, the Kronos & Fantom would be a killer combination.

You don't know you're in the dark until you're in the light.
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I often wonder about the time it takes to transfer all my material from one workstation to another. What do we actually gain? Its us that hears the difference from one synth to another, so moving to a different synth for the sake of a small upgrade is not always beneficial. I always felt that a new synth has to pay for itself in order to justify the out of pocket cost. Being that I don't gig anymore, anything I would buy in my senior years would be strictly for wanting a new toy.

 

Today's workstations cost a lot of money.

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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I often wonder about the time it takes to transfer all my material from one workstation to another. What do we actually gain? Its us that hears the difference from one synth to another, so moving to a different synth for the sake of a small upgrade is not always beneficial. I always felt that a new synth has to pay for itself in order to justify the out of pocket cost. Being that I don't gig anymore, anything I would buy in my senior years would be strictly for wanting a new toy.

 

Today's workstations cost a lot of money.

 

 

Mike T.

 

I agree 100% !

For the live gear, I always looked for the best combo in the sense of using it for MANY years, if not decades.

It´s not fashion, it´s tools.

Learn the tools and squeeze everything possible out of it.

Quality gear is hard to find and hard to beat.

Once found, it´s usable for a long time.

 

At least it was in the past ...

 

A.C.

 

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Maybe because the Fantom is shipping and people are getting their hands on it, and no one's seen the Jupiters yet? I don't know, but the Jupiter Xm is the new Roland that most interests me.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I often wonder about the time it takes to transfer all my material from one workstation to another. What do we actually gain? Its us that hears the difference from one synth to another, so moving to a different synth for the sake of a small upgrade is not always beneficial.

 

Mike T.

 

Good topic. All of our sound programming developed on 'todays ' complex keyboards. And whether or not the keyboard co will

keep the architecture in place, to play our 'custom ' sound programming.

 

Since I have a large original song portfolio, all developed/recorded on Kronos SEQ, a future transition or a hard stop

is a big priority for me. And midi files simply don't get it done, not with all the loaded Kronos FX.

 

I am getting prepared for Korg to give up on its file structure on Kronos, when they eventually develop/introduce

a new concept production synthesizer [ I doubt it will be a formal w/s].

 

In case anyone plans like I do, I think there is a 60% chance Korg will introduce a new expensive production

synth by NAMM 2020. So, 40% ' chance ' well after. I have zero insider knowledge. Simply my tea leave reading.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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In case anyone plans like I do, I think there is a 60% chance Korg will introduce a new expensive production

synth by NAMM 2020.

 

They will release the all-new Romulus... a unique green workstation with cloaking technology and a quantum singularity as power source.

 

 

 

When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
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I heard it's not shipping until 4/20

 

I believe that"s just for the bigger Jupiter-X. The Xm is expected to ship this year.

Acoustic: Shigeru Kawai SK-7 ~ Breedlove C2/R

MIDI: Kurzweil Forte ~ Sequential Prophet X ~ Yamaha CP88 ~ Expressive E Osmose

Electric: Schecter Solo Custom Exotic ~ Chapman MLB1 Signature Bass

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In case anyone plans like I do, I think there is a 60% chance Korg will introduce a new expensive production

synth by NAMM 2020.

 

They will release the all-new Romulus... a unique green workstation with cloaking technology and a quantum singularity as power source.

 

 

 

I think Star Trek has a copyright on 'clever ' cross promotion :)

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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If the Fantom 8 is in play, I can assure you that the the PH50 keyboard far surpasses the Kronos 88...I had a Kronos 88 sold it for a RD-2000 with a bunch of software synths and love the RD keyboard action and midi capabilities. If I were to consider a move back to a workstation, the Fantom 8 would be the only board on the list. I don"t play live anymore, so the confines of a home studio makes it easier to make these choices.

 

Slàinte Mhath

 

 

Using:

Yamaha: Montage M8x| Spectrasonics: Omnisphere, Keyscape | uhe: Diva, Hive2, Zebra2| Roland: Cloud Pro | Arturia: V Collection

NI: Komplete 14 | VPS: Avenger | Cherry: GX80 | G-Force: OB-E | Korg: Triton, MS-20

 

Sold/Traded:

Yamaha: Motif XS8, Motif ES8, Motif8, KX-88, TX7 | ASM: Hydrasynth Deluxe| Roland: RD-2000, D50, MKS-20| Korg: Kronos 88, T3, MS-20

Oberheim: OB8, OBXa, Modular 8 Voice | Rhodes: Dyno-My-Piano| Crumar: T2

 

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Got a bit more info today from the Sud-Claviers video on youtube. I guy on facebook was nice enough to translate some of it.

 

The French Roland Rep confirmed the Fantom has 8 expansion slots, which will be used for Plug-Outs, Axial Sounds & New Filters... look forward to some of these rolling out

 

This is going to be one killer machine in the future.

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Got a bit more info today from the Sud-Claviers video on youtube. I guy on facebook was nice enough to translate some of it.

 

The French Roland Rep confirmed the Fantom has 8 expansion slots, which will be used for Plug-Outs, Axial Sounds & New Filters... look forward to some of these rolling out

 

This is going to be one killer machine in the future.

That"s huge! Thanks for sharing.

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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