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New Roland Fantom


gino

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I'm impressed by its integration with Mainstage/Logic (over Ableton, hm), but it also feels a bit like a clever dog trick. That's a rather specific form of work flow which assumes that you're going to live in front of the Fantom a lot. I'm sure some players will, happily, but they'll have to do a bit of a dance to make full use of its MIDI, CV and USB outs. Its a big synth, so you'll need a chair with rollers to use it as a production center.

 

OTOH, I'd like to hear the person who just sits in front of it for its own sake and makes it go kaboom. Its a brilliant take on the arranger keyboard for people who prefer to get their hands dirty, like whatever passes for proper 'manly men' in the synth realm now. Let me at all of the parameters or forget it. :curse:

 

Everyone who would like to hear Derek Sherinian shred on this one, raise their hands. :wave:

 

 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

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Many good informative videos on the Fantom out there but the Bonner's Music You Tube vid is the most practical for a gigging musician I've seen & convinced me to get one... hoping the F7 with the "new synth action" will work well with the APs & EPs.

I have the FA-06, the sounds are awesome but the synth action sucks.

You don't know you're in the dark until you're in the light.
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I have the FA-06, the sounds are awesome but the synth action sucks.

Although I could have lived with the FA06 having owned a System 8, I bought the FA-07 for the better action.

 

The Fantom 6 action is nice. I'd imagine the 7 should be the same or better. :cool:

 

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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Many good informative videos on the Fantom out there but the Bonner's Music You Tube vid is the most practical for a gigging musician I've seen & convinced me to get one... hoping the F7 with the "new synth action" will work well with the APs & EPs.

I have the FA-06, the sounds are awesome but the synth action sucks.

 

I have the FA06 as well and can't stand the action either. Rickzjamm, are you considering replacing your FA06 with a Fantom model? I am leaning that way......

Kurzweil Forte 7, Mojo 61, Yamaha P-125,

Kronos X61, Nautilus 73

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Hi aellison62,

Actually I'm thinking of replacing my Korg Kronos 73 with the F7 (may never part with my FA-06). Although the KK7 has amazing orchestral / sub sounds & is a great workstation and has served me on many a gig, I've never truly connected with the hammer action, APs / EPs and yes.. deep down I'm a Roland gut from way back. I have an RD-2000 for home practice (too heavy for gigging) and one at church in a piano shell, love the pianos on it better than the Kronos. Would prefer the F8 with the PHA5 action but the weight is definitely a factor & the F7 seems to be calling to me with all the right boxes checked.

You don't know you're in the dark until you're in the light.
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Many good informative videos on the Fantom out there but the Bonner's Music You Tube vid is the most practical for a gigging musician I've seen & convinced me to get one... hoping the F7 with the "new synth action" will work well with the APs & EPs.

I have the FA-06, the sounds are awesome but the synth action sucks.

 

And this is the vid and agree it's great:

 

[video:youtube]

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I've had my Fantom 7 for 4 days. At least 40 hours on the machine already. The organ is all PCM and drawbars control the registrations. There is nothing to see here. There are 380 ish PCM waves but there are empty banks so expansion looks very possible. There's a ton of old presets with familiar names but they often don't sound as good as the Jupiter. Some basic editing brings them to life...replace a PCM partial with VA and filter adjustments. The control surface makes it super easy to get to into and around the synth. Many of the new presets make use of the step LFO and they like routing that to pitch which created a few intonation issues in 1 particular composition. I spent a couple days with loop player and TR REC seq stuff. It's fun, ideas go down quick but workflow could be improved and it needs editing functions. By day 4 I was back in Logic and that's where things opened up. MacOS driver installation was a bit tricky, it could be documented better. Before you do anything set the USB setting in Fantom to "vendor" and write/reboot Fantom. 32 inputs and 6 outputs appeared plus MIDI over USB. Nice. DAW control works mixer adjustments, transport control via the pads. I'm Logic key commands guy so it's still faster using QWERTY but if you don't already know this stuff, you won't need a dedicated control surface for DAW. Fantom is 16 part multitimbral. Voices are big enough so they can stand on their own or in pairs. Have to say Fantom is light on EFX, 1 insert per part and 2 master.

 

Fantom 7 synth action is very nice. Better than anything else I've owned. Few quirks...V Piano can only be in zone 1. All the INIT presets in the machine are not fully initialized so watch out (velocity limited to 80, probably other things). Just init the scene before you dive in. Current presets pretty bad.

 

Roland folks very helpful on the FB forum. Folks have issues, usually pilot error and Roland guys are there with the answer. We're all learning the machine together so they've been a huge help.

 

Friends are asking me "are you going to sell the Jupiter? The Kronos?" The answer is neither. They all have their strengths and I've got years learning and understanding these instruments. All together, it sounds glorious. Really wonderful time to play electronic instruments I'm blessed. It's been a very exciting couple weeks!

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Sounds like firmware update v2.0 will be amazing.

 

It was the same with the Fantom X. They added the audio recording and some other things with a software update.

 

edit:

 

Wait, I might be wrong. My X7 has a sticker that says audio track expansion, and now I think I remember there being a hardware expansion board for it as well. It was 14 years ago and my memory is clearly not what it used to be.

 

Anybody know for sure?

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There's a ton of old presets with familiar names but they often don't sound as good as the Jupiter.

 

Not as good in what sense? Did they do a rush job porting them? Is all the old stuff from the 1080/2080/5080 days in there?

 

 

Have to say Fantom is light on EFX, 1 insert per part and 2 master.

 

That's disappointing. On their site they say:

 

Effects

Multi-Effects: 16 systems, 90 types

Part EQ: 16 systems

Drum Part COMP: 6 systems

Insertion Effect: 2 System, 90 Type

 

Chorus: 8 types

Reverb: 6 types

Master Compressor

Master EQ

Mic Input Reverb: 6 types

 

Not sure what they mean by 'systems' , it's a little confusing.

 

However, being stingy with FX is a time-honored Roland tradition. In its day, the Fantom X lagged behind the Motifs and Tritons as well.

 

Few quirks...V Piano can only be in zone 1. All the INIT presets in the machine are not fully initialized so watch out (velocity limited to 80, probably other things). Just init the scene before you dive in. Current presets pretty bad.

 

That sounds like they were rushing to get this thing on the market. Hope they'll spend the time to get it right with the first point update.

 

All together, it sounds glorious.

 

And that's the most important thing. Can't wait to get mine.

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. They added the audio recording and some other things with a software update.

 

edit:

 

Wait, I might be wrong. My X7 has a sticker that says audio track expansion, and now I think I remember there being a hardware expansion board for it as well. It was 14 years ago and my memory is clearly not what it used to be.

 

Anybody know for sure?

 

Yes I do. The Audio Track Expansion was a software/firmware upgrade that came on a Compact Flash Card to install After installed, you were set. No additional expansion cards to be placed inside.

 

The Kit also came with a CD that had the new version of the editor software that worked with the Audio Expansion.

 

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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Will have to get some playing time on one of these. There are only itwo locations in my region that have the Fantom though: Chicago GC, north side and Sweetwater. Just might try and talk Moonglow into taking half a day, and heading out to Fort Wayne. I want to get a handle on Zen-Core, and see if the hybrid of new PCM waves and VA behavior modeling can be as expressive and evocative as SuperNatural. I'd prefer the improved front panel and workflow of the Fantom 7, vs my JP-50. Plus having aftertouch would be great. The $$$$ is scary though. Might have to sell a body part :laugh:

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Well, watching the Bonner Music video actually turns me away from this keyboard. The fact that you can"t changes tones (and their corresponding FX) and have that change saved within a scene WITHOUT changing the original sound forever ( or having to save a slightly tweaked version of the same sound) really disappoints me. That seems like something the industry has had out there for years now with the Kronos and why a $3500-$4000 brand new board would not have that capability is beyond me.

Kurzweil Forte 7, Mojo 61, Yamaha P-125,

Kronos X61, Nautilus 73

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Well, watching the Bonner Music video actually turns me away from this keyboard. The fact that you can"t changes tones (and their corresponding FX) and have that change saved within a scene WITHOUT changing the original sound forever ( or having to save a slightly tweaked version of the same sound) really disappoints me. That seems like something the industry has had out there for years now with the Kronos and why a $3500-$4000 brand new board would not have that capability is beyond me.

 

This is not QUITE correct, the Fantom (like the FA) has a page called OFFSET where you can alter things like cutoff, resonance, attack, release, decay etc without altering the original TONE. I used it a lot on the FA series. This may work for some people, or may be something that can help talk yourself out of needing a new Fantom.

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Well, watching the Bonner Music video actually turns me away from this keyboard. The fact that you can"t changes tones (and their corresponding FX) and have that change saved within a scene WITHOUT changing the original sound forever ( or having to save a slightly tweaked version of the same sound) really disappoints me. That seems like something the industry has had out there for years now with the Kronos and why a $3500-$4000 brand new board would not have that capability is beyond me.

 

Ok so just to make sure I'm understanding this - you can't alter an actual tone and save it as a new one? Not that I do that much but it seems a pretty big shortcoming although maybe that's what the new Jupiter is for..

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You can alter a tone and save it as a new one. What I am talking about is the ability to alter a tone that you are using in a scene, save the scene with the altered tone, but have the original tone by itself remain the same as original. But, What theshinenz says about OFFSET may help this to a good degree. I was not aware of that ( and I own an FA!) so will have to see how this works and to what extent that OFFSET allows tweaking. Thanks for this info theshinenz!

Kurzweil Forte 7, Mojo 61, Yamaha P-125,

Kronos X61, Nautilus 73

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Well, watching the Bonner Music video actually turns me away from this keyboard. The fact that you can"t changes tones (and their corresponding FX) and have that change saved within a scene WITHOUT changing the original sound forever ( or having to save a slightly tweaked version of the same sound) really disappoints me. That seems like something the industry has had out there for years now with the Kronos and why a $3500-$4000 brand new board would not have that capability is beyond me.

 

Ok so just to make sure I'm understanding this - you can't alter an actual tone and save it as a new one? Not that I do that much but it seems a pretty big shortcoming although maybe that's what the new Jupiter is for..

 

Available offset parameters saved in a scene are on page 12&13 of the parameter guide. Editing anything beyond those requires saving as a new tone.

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[

Lot of people around here (Texas) gig with the X8 and G8

Heck, the Motif XF8 is almost 62lbs....and those are all over the gigging world around here.

Maybe it seems normal there, because everything is bigger in Texas! But that's gotta be more like 80 lbs in even a lightish case... that's roadie or backline material. I know I"m not going to be carrying anything like that, especially up and down stairs and such. So from my perspective, it's a "studio use only" kind of board (at least the 88).

 

I would go the extra mile and hire a roadie. Likely worth the $50 or more for a night

I doubt I could find a roadie for $50. And on some gigs even that can be a substantial percentage of your pay! And you do it enough times, you could have bought another keyboard. Roadies have no resale value.

 

I didn't spend much time with the bread and butter sounds (piano, EP, organ, clav, gtr, etc.) but what little I played didn't impress me much. Serviceable, but a bit déja vu.

Piano should have been nice with the V-Piano, but until/unless they add their SuperNatural stuff, the rest of those sounds, whether XV5080 or newer, seem to be using the same kind of Roland tech they've been using for a while. An instrument seems to be limited to 4 tones (their basic building block element), which is what Korg does only down at their Kross level, IIRC. MODX/Montage have the 8 element architecture of the earlier Motifs, but with "multi-part single instruments," you can create, for example, a 4-part single instrument that has 32 elements. I think Kurzweil's 32 layers per program is their comparable figure. So 4 tones is pretty basic. Though as I said earlier, sonically, I think Fantom and Jupiter are (surprisingly, to me) BOTH synths first, bread-and-butter sound machines second.

 

quote=Devnor]Have to say Fantom is light on EFX, 1 insert per part and 2 master.

It would be nice if they had a "Montage" mode where you could choose to use the same total 16 fx as 2 fx per part without losing patch remain provided you limited your scene to 8 parts. Something I read today, which was a pleasant surprise, is that the patch remain survives multiple patch transitions (unlike the Montage/Kronos implementations).

 

The fact that you can"t changes tones (and their corresponding FX) and have that change saved within a scene WITHOUT changing the original sound forever ( or having to save a slightly tweaked version of the same sound) really disappoints me. That seems like something the industry has had out there for years now with the Kronos and why a $3500-$4000 brand new board would not have that capability is beyond me.

This is not QUITE correct, the Fantom (like the FA) has a page called OFFSET where you can alter things like cutoff, resonance, attack, release, decay etc without altering the original TONE.

Korgs and pre-Montage Yamahas work the same way. The Combis/Performances use pointers to Programs/Performances, not their own entirely separate versions of their components. There are pros and cons...

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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[
Lot of people around here (Texas) gig with the X8 and G8

Heck, the Motif XF8 is almost 62lbs....and those are all over the gigging world around here.

Maybe it seems normal there, because everything is bigger in Texas! But that's gotta be more like 80 lbs in even a lightish case... that's roadie or backline material. I know I"m not going to be carrying anything like that, especially up and down stairs and such. So from my perspective, it's a "studio use only" kind of board (at least the 88).

c building block element), which is what Korg does only down at their Kross level, IIRC. MODX/Montage have the 8 element architecture of the earlier Motifs, but with "multi-part single instruments," you can create, for example, a 4-part single instrument that has 32 elements. I think Kurzweil's 32 layers per program is their comparable figure. So 4 tones is pretty basic. Though as I said earlier, sonically, I think Fantom and Jupiter are (surprisingly, to me) BOTH synths first, bread-and-butter sound machines second.

 

The XF8 is 63.7 lbs. In a hardshell Yamaha-branded case (which is a rebranded SKB I think), it is nearly 100 lbs. It is my only "portable" 88 so it goes to all the gigs. For me it isn't the weight as much as it is the overall bulk once it's in that case. Haven't seen a better solution to that yet.

 

The fact that you can"t changes tones (and their corresponding FX) and have that change saved within a scene WITHOUT changing the original sound forever ( or having to save a slightly tweaked version of the same sound) really disappoints me. That seems like something the industry has had out there for years now with the Kronos and why a $3500-$4000 brand new board would not have that capability is beyond me.

This is not QUITE correct, the Fantom (like the FA) has a page called OFFSET where you can alter things like cutoff, resonance, attack, release, decay etc without altering the original TONE.

Korgs and pre-Montage Yamahas work the same way. The Combis/Performances use pointers to Programs/Performances, not their own entirely separate versions of their components. There are pros and cons...

 

Yes. You have basic modifications to your individual voices (aka tones, programs) that you can make in your performance (combi) and Mixing/Song/Pattern setups, which are saved with that file only and do not affect the original voice. If you need more editing options then you have to create a custom voice, whether from scratch or by editing a preset and saving it to a user bank, then selecting that user voice in your Performance/combi. I like it that way because otherwise, every time you did an edit in your combi/performance mode, any other combi/performance/song setups using that sound would be changed too.

 

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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Well, watching the Bonner Music video actually turns me away from this keyboard. The fact that you can"t changes tones (and their corresponding FX) and have that change saved within a scene WITHOUT changing the original sound forever ( or having to save a slightly tweaked version of the same sound) really disappoints me. That seems like something the industry has had out there for years now with the Kronos and why a $3500-$4000 brand new board would not have that capability is beyond me.

 

Ok so just to make sure I'm understanding this - you can't alter an actual tone and save it as a new one? Not that I do that much but it seems a pretty big shortcoming although maybe that's what the new Jupiter is for..

 

Available offset parameters saved in a scene are on page 12&13 of the parameter guide. Editing anything beyond those requires saving as a new tone.

 

If that is the way how it really works on the new Fantom, then the statement about not having modes, as they say on their official web page is simply not true and very misleading IMO!

 

As an example where I would say it is done in the correct way is the Montage/MoDX:

There is only a performance mode and a part equals to the tone in the new Fantom. Whether you edit the whole performance or just a single or a few parts, it is just a performance. You don't save a part. You can save a performance with just one part if you want to have some kind of a template for a certain often used sound, but a performance is simply a multitimbral setup where anything is edited down to the sample level.

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A question I posted to the Fantom group. Should NOT be an issue but who knows with experience of the Montage I get the gut reaction that builders don"t give jack about MIDI compatibility anymore.

 

It would be great if Dr Fortner could make MIDI communication part of his review. :)

 

Has anybody tested the Fantom receiving MIDI controller information yet? I"m interested in a Fantom 7 but I will need Korg Kronos SetList to call specific Fantom scenes and will want to be able to treat zones within scenes as external zones on the Kronos.

 

Thanks

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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If that is the way how it really works on the new Fantom, then the statement about not having modes, as they say on their official web page is simply not true and very misleading IMO!

 

When we were discussing this on RC clan and before I had my Fantom, I thought the scene contained tone programming settings too. They said scenes recalled the entire state of the machine. Here's a better example of no modes.

 

Working in Kronos SEQ mode, you want to edit a voice. What happens next? First you need to remember the patch location/name and enter program mode, find the patch then find the parameter you want to adjust. But what happens when you restart the sequence? Nothing because you aren't in SEQ. Fantom you press the parameter button of the section you wish to edit. Sequence still plays.

 

 

 

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I

Working in Kronos SEQ mode, you want to edit a voice. What happens next? First you need to remember the patch location/name and enter program mode, find the patch then find the parameter you want to adjust. But what happens when you restart the sequence?

 

 

I have composed/recorded 60 songs using the SEQ.

 

When laying down a multi track song, I will ' preselect ' what Program I want.

 

Then I return to Program mode, make the tweaks. Back to SEQ , copy the edited

Program in, and bang , it works perfect.

 

Maybe that sounds like an extra step or 2 but for recording its not a difficult process for me..

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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If that is the way how it really works on the new Fantom, then the statement about not having modes, as they say on their official web page is simply not true and very misleading IMO!

 

When we were discussing this on RC clan and before I had my Fantom, I thought the scene contained tone programming settings too. They said scenes recalled the entire state of the machine. Here's a better example of no modes.

 

Working in Kronos SEQ mode, you want to edit a voice. What happens next? First you need to remember the patch location/name and enter program mode, find the patch then find the parameter you want to adjust. But what happens when you restart the sequence? Nothing because you aren't in SEQ. Fantom you press the parameter button of the section you wish to edit. Sequence still plays.

 

Nothing against a comparison with the Kronos, although let's not forget that the Kronos is quite an oldie here, so the Kronos obviously lags behind its new and fresh competitors, the Fantom and the Montage. But, I don't see a point here and it doesn't explain or correct what I already said about the new Fantom. If you can't edit the tone right inside the scene down to the oscillator level (instead of just doing offset), than it doesn't really count in my book as not having different modes.

Since obviously tones have to be saved separately, I'm also curious how many user slots are there for own tones. There are 3500 or so preset tones, but how big is the user area?

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Jupiter 80 is another synth that operates like Fantom. All 4 parts generated sound and maintained their edits regardless if you are in single part play, registration or live set edit. Its a productive way of working assuming you don't press the wrong button and blow everything out :)
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