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OT: sleep


J. Dan

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I have to a marine that many of you are like me and come home from gigs just to fired up or wired or whatever to just go to sleep, especially after loading in a bunch of gear and being maybe on a bit of a high of the crowd reacting and the adrenaline. But like me, most of you also have day jobs and resetting the sleep schedule can be tough. I've done melatonin and it seems to be good in more of a long term sens of resetting your circadian rhythm. Maybe though there is a better way to just get settled down and to sleep after a gig instead of being wired all night and then dead Monday morning. Ideas?

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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I'm typing this out on Sunday morning at 3am because I'm too wired to sleep. Saturday nights always do this to me - other nights not so much.

 

I have no advice to offer other than I try not to do much the next day. Family and friends all understand. Well most of them anyway.

 

I'll fall asleep watching football tomorrow afternoon, go to bed tomorrow night at my usual time, and wake up Monday morning back on schedule. After all these years of practice, my body is pretty good at resetting itself.

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I"ve never been a night owl, but as I enter my 30s it"s taking a lot longer to recover from late night gigs than it did in my early 20s. I also have more trouble sleeping in general than I used to; probably due to various life stressors as much as not being a kid anymore.

 

I"ve learned that a nightcap is a mixed bag for me, since it will almost definitely wake me up in the middle of the night. Not sure what the THC/CBD situation is as far as availability and legality in your neck of the woods, or if that"s something you"re open to. One of my coworkers, an athletic mom in her 50s, has strongly recommended CBD as an effective sleep aid. Might be placebo, but the post-gig wind-down is as much psychological as it is physical.

Samuel B. Lupowitz

Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.

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adequate sleep is definitely subjective , I think.

I believe you have to listen to your body and not fight it.

 

I am ok getting 6-7 hours on average per night.

 

when I exercise strenuously during the morning, my sleep or rest radar

will later say " Nap time ". To doze off for 60 minutes is quite wonderful, as I wake

up razor sharp. Its like having a 2nd morning, which I like.

 

No, I don't drink alcohol or take melatonin. They mess with me.

And I have thoroughly discussed

sleep aids with my Doc- nada for me.

 

Anyway, I think we have to be aware of sleep debt. It can pile up.

So its 6 hours minimum for me per night plus the occasional nap.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

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I was skeptical when I first watched it, but this technique has worked for me for those nights when I"ve got a bunch of stuff running through my mind and I can"t get to sleep.

 

 

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I'm a notoriously light sleeper, and being tired enough to trust I will sleep well is also an issue. I don't usually have a set schedule, so when I go to sleep can be highly variable. I also have a tendency to wake up before I'm fully rested. Am very envious of deep sleepers!

 

I use melatonin AND diphenhydramine, 50 mg. It's an over-the-counter sleep aid that works well for me. I've never habituated to it, which is great 'cause it's just as effective now as it was over a year ago when I started taking it. It keeps me asleep typically for 7 hours.

 

Another thing I've been experimenting with lately is relaxing on the exhale, which means following the exhale to the end of the breath and consciously allowing myself to go into that 'null space' at the end of the exhale where I might still be letting out a little oxygen, or just hanging out there for a second or two. It's fascinating how the body instinctively begans deep breathing from the diaphragm when you allow yourself to be without breath for even just a few seconds. Helps to trigger the deep breathing that happens automatically when you sleep.

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

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Whenever I feel too alert to sleep, I practice deep breathing. In through the nose, out through the mouth, generally while wearing a fingertip blood pulse oximeter. I aim for a target resting heart rate while breathing slowly and deeply. All the way out and in. Pretty soon I can"t keep my eyes open. A decent blood pulse oximeter can be had for around $20 or so, and nice to have around anyway.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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White Noise (Brown Noise, Blue Noise, Violet Noise, Pink Noise - adjustments of White Noise) *to some people*. Puts me out usually after 5 or 10 minutes and dreams are very lucid though this has no effect on some people. (Oddly, I frequently, lucidly, dream of deceased relatives with White Noise. Some (with superstitious bends) caution "it's a portal".)

 

This is notably used to put babies to sleep. YouTube has tons of videos with deviations of White Noise - vacuum cleaners, sounds of a jet in flight, hair dryers, rain, ocean, trains with track sounds, ocean waves, heavy rain etc

 

I thought I was a rare one effected by this until I saw the thousands of hits on YouTube. I have an IOS app also of White Noise and choices.

 

I play it through a Blue Tooth Speaker or even my studio speakers sometimes. Does not take me long to go into a deep sleep when I use it.

 

One will know that White Noise will help if you remember, say, falling asleep easier in the past with a window air conditioner on.

 

Some use it for study at low volume to block distracting sounds and some use it for tinnitus

 

As said, commonly used to put babies to sleep. Some mothers even run their vacuum cleaners (analog White Noise - kidding) at a distance from a crib to put baby to sleep.

 

 

WH

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Are you being honest with yourself about your caffeine use? I don't know how may times I've talked to people who have trouble sleeping and they say "I don't know what the problem is. . .." Only later will they mention a caffeine habit. Denial is part of any addiction, and caffeine is an addiction.

 

Cutting down on stimulants can help. But as a long time dayjobber/night gigger, I could never find a real answer to this problem. If you're not feeling excited after your gig, then you probably shouldn't be doing that gig. But humans aren't wired to be able to shut that off like a switch. The bottom line is that playing 1 am gigs and being at work at 8:30 is not a natural way to live.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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Another suspect besides caffeine, for some people, is sugar. I get a secondary 'bounce" from sugars about 6-8 hours later. I sleep better when I have a sugar cut-off at about 6pm. Meaning no sugar of any type at gigs for me.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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alcohol is known to eventually keep you up, even if it helps you zonk out quickly. That's been one issue for me as I tend to get a few beers during gigs.

 

Going to in-ears has helped me sleep, or at least it seems like it, since my ears no longer ring like crazy as I'm lying in bed. I think the same "insulation" from stage energy that some people hate about in-ears actually helps later on, or at least that's my zany theory! :)

 

Any kind of stress or adrenalin has always been a problem for me. If I overdo working out, or play basketball after work, I often can't sleep despite being physically exhausted.

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 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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Bands I worked with I think it was part social, but part to unwind we'd always go eat after gigs. For awhile that wasn't enough to unwind and we started going bowling after going out to eat so we get home around 4am. I was hanging around some NYC Jazz cats for awhile about 4am we'd get together to chat and talk gigs and music. A couple of the guys used the 4am chat as a way to unwind a bit and then would go home to practice. Yes, practice so they sleep most the daylight hours. When I was younger and playing and/or doing sound gigs I was only sleeping about 4-6 hour a night did that for years.

 

Someone mentioned caffeine for the most part it has no effect on me I can drink a cup of coffee and then go to bed. Once a couple years ago I did get a triple shot latte about 11pm and that did keep me up for a few hours before I could fall asleep. When I was young my father was a coffee salesman to restaurants and studios and similar type places. So when I was a little kid with both parents working it was crazy around my house everyone trying to get ready for work or school for me, so I was drinking coffee in mornings like my parents when typical kid would be having milk or juice, so I guess I built up a tolerance for caffeine. My coffee drinking really increased when I was working in computers programming or as a sysadmin.

 

I think sleep and coffee are what you get used to, might take a few days to a week to change, but I think it can be done. Now that's I'm old (70 YO) the only thing for me is changing my sleep schedule is harder.

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...Someone mentioned caffeine for the most part it has no effect on me I can drink a cup of coffee and then go to bed. Once a couple years ago I did get a triple shot latte about 11pm and that did keep me up for a few hours before I could fall asleep. ...
Due to the method of extraction and typical grind coffee ran through an espresso machine has less caffeine than regular brewed coffee. The thing about coffee/caffeine is that no matter how tolerant you have become it has more effect when you are already rested. When you are constantly unrested it has less to no effect. I can immediately fall asleep when I have been drinking coffee for hours. It is not so much a tolerance at is seems. It just is not the strong drug people believe it is. Your caffeine response bounces back once you have adequate rest. Generally speaking here, of course this is going to vary between people. For years I could not drink coffee because it made me nervous. That going away is probably developing tolerance.

 

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I've always been night owl, typically getting a second wind around 8pm. I also enjoy going to the gym in the evening, usually from 8-9pm. Like someone else mentioned, I also take diphenhydramine, 50 mg, which I purchase at Target (it's the "PM" in Tylenol PM, without the Tylenol). I think it's a really nice sleep inducing aid. Melatonin gives me weird dreams, so I don't like too much. I used to love Tryptophan, but it was off the market for years; I think it's back, but I haven't tried it recently. It might be helpful as well.

 

Sometimes I will take the diphenhydramine before the gym if I need to make sure I'm asleep at a reasonable time. I would recommend taking it at the end of your gig as you're loading out, unless of course you have a long drive home. I also find a shower after a gig relaxes me considerably.

 

I did some radio spots a few years back with the "acupuncturist to the stars", who was based in Santa Monica. One of the things he mentioned when addressing this issue is making sure you do not watch or interact with any screens ,whether TV or computer. So stay away from ALL electronic visual stimulation. He was a big advocate for reading, which I find also relaxes my mind and makes me sleepy.

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We talked about sleep back in May '19. I'm a sleep tech and if anyone has any questions or concerns I'm happy to help to the limits of my degree.

9 Moog things, 3 Roland things, 2 Hammond things and a computer with stuff on it

 

 

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We talked about sleep back in May '19. I'm a sleep tech and if anyone has any questions or concerns I'm happy to help to the limits of my degree.

So, what are some of your suggestions to help unwind after a late night gig, sleep well and be productive the next day? Are there breathing and mental exercises that might help?

 

Another game or trick I enjoy with breathing is to sigh or yawn on purpose, a good yawn will get you to stretch and extend your jaw, get a full belly breath, possibly raise your chest and shoulders in the process, etc. In fact, by exaggerating what's already happening with a yawn, I was experimenting with filling my arms, chest, belly, legs, etc., with air, and just like the chest there's an expansion thru the whole body, muscular in nature, that feels good, kind of like a good cat stretch.

 

 

 

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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I sleep much better after having sex.

+2.

 

I heard the concept of bi modal sleep being discussed recently. 8 hours sleep at night may be a relatively recent phenomena. No wonder they had more kids.

 

"Anthropologists have found evidence that during preindustrial Europe, bi-modal sleeping was considered the norm. Sleep onset was determined not by a set bedtime, but by whether there were things to do.

 

Historian A. Roger Ekirch's book At Day's Close: Night in Times Past describes how households at this time retired a couple of hours after dusk, woke a few hours later for one to two hours, and then had a second sleep until dawn.

 

During this waking period, people would relax, ponder their dreams, or have sex. Some would engage in activities like sewing, chopping wood, or reading, relying on the light of the moon or oil lamps."

A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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To the OP, I find I am wired and take hours to come down after a gig. If I am up late alone I sit down and play some classical pieces, preferably slower pieces that I need to shift focus to play half decently. Half an hour later I am back to normal.

A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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I think it's just adrenaline. To answer some previous questions, I drink coffee during the week but almost never on weekends, and have less trouble sleeping (and go to bed much earlier) during the week. The difference during the week is I can wind down in front of the TV so that by the time I'm able to get the kids in bed, I'm already ready for bed. Usually when I get home from a gig, it's the same couple of hours in front of the TV to wind down, it just doesn't start until 2am.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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I had that problem as well, but been using some CBD and it has really helped. I take a few drops every night about 30 minutes before bed and now I sleep like a baby. It took a couple of weeks to begin to work but after that it's been great. Before I would toss and turn for a couple of hours before I would fall asleep. Also need to experiment a little with the dosage as it affects everyone differently. I was taking a little too much at first. But make sure you use the CBD without any THC in it. Even small amounts of THC could cause you to fail a drug test.

 

Melatonin is another option, but that bothers my stomach.

Montage 7, Mojo 61, PC-3, XK-3c Pro, Kronos 88, Hammond SK-1, Motif XF- 7, Hammond SK-2, Roland FR-1, FR-18, Hammond B3 - Blond, Hammond BV -Cherry
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I think it's just adrenaline. To answer some previous questions, I drink coffee during the week but almost never on weekends, and have less trouble sleeping (and go to bed much earlier) during the week. The difference during the week is I can wind down in front of the TV so that by the time I'm able to get the kids in bed, I'm already ready for bed. Usually when I get home from a gig, it's the same couple of hours in front of the TV to wind down, it just doesn't start until 2am.

 

 

It absolutely has everything to do with adrenaline. I know tons of musicians that have a hard time winding down. Once a year I play till about 2 in the morning in another city. By the time I drive home I'm tired but can't sleep well. Your brain is still locked in performance mode so basically your next day is shot.Caffeine can be a factor but not for all people as someone said above. Drinking alcohol interrupts your REM sleep.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

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Anyone tried Ambien? The travel show host Rick Steves said he takes a tiny piece of one to sleep while traveling and seemed to like it.

 

Ambien is used in our sleep lab to help induce sleep in patients who have trouble with the wires and strange surroundings. It's safe to use in this context because it is clean, i.e., doesn't interfere with any other medications, doesn't alter the brain waves, isn't a respiratory depressant or muscle relaxer, non-addictive, and you can't overdose on it. Sounds like the perfect drug. In many cases it is. It doesn't always work for everybody, though, and can cause adverse reactions like sleepwalking, -eating, -driving, as well as cause hallucinations and nightmares. Some can feel hungover in the morning even though it leaves the system in roughly four hours. It can be psychologically addicting and should only be used for brief periods of time. For those on Medicare, doctors are only permitted to write a few pills a year or risk losing all Medicare reimbursements.

 

So before taking Ambien, I'd recommend establishing healthy nighttime routines as described in other posts--no electronics, no exercise before bed, keep the same sleep/wake schedule every day, don't use your bed as an office. As far as sex goes, my sleep teacher put it this way. "There are two things you should use your bed for--sleep and satisfying sex. If the sex isn't satisfying, move to the living room."

 

9 Moog things, 3 Roland things, 2 Hammond things and a computer with stuff on it

 

 

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Trazedone - they've apparently been prescribing it since the 60's. "Safe as milk", says my doctor, who normally keeps his prescription pad tucked in his pocket. Look it up. It's classed as an antidepressant, but you take it at night and it lets you just drift off.

Yamaha P515 & CK88, Pianoteq, Mainstage, iOS, assorted other stuff.

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I'm the opposite, I often feel wired if I've been deep in a work project for long hours (I did a bunch of 3D modeling yesterday and couldn't get to sleep until 4:30a, even if I lay down at 1am). However, after most gigs I totally crash and sleep like a baby. You'd think there would be a prolonged adrenaline rush, and I'm NEVER tired during a gig, but somehow the moment it stops, I have about 30minutes to pack up my gear or I'm going to be out for the count.

 

The one curious exception is when I'm in a new band or filling in, having to cram a lot of new songs in a short period of time. Then I've typically been hearing them in my head for days. When I go to bed after the gig, they won't stop playing. I remember my first gig playing Irish fiddle music, I fell asleep with a Reel playing on repeat, and woke up with a jig. I realized that my internal jukebox had been running all night long, and I never hit deep sleep.

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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